Modern kicking

[dayman]

Probably a dumb question but do we believe kickers are so much better now, across the league, or are we just letting everyone use insane kicking balls now?

 

I feel like if we are going to give you the ball at the 35, and not let anyone touch anybody on defense, so you can throw 2 mid-range passes to get into range, then least we should do is not give the kickers a balloon they can kick 70 yards. 

 

Should it not be impossible to kick 70 yards FG? I find it hard to believe anyone is kicking the ball from the 90s that far.

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, dayman said:

Probably a dumb question but do we believe kickers are so much better now, across the league, or are we just letting everyone use insane kicking balls now?

 

I feel like if we are going to give you the ball at the 35, and not let anyone touch anybody on defense, so you can throw 2 mid-range passes to get into range, then least we should do is not give the kickers a balloon they can kick 70 yards. 

 

Should it not be impossible to kick 70 yards FG? I find it hard to believe anyone is kicking the ball from the 90s that far.

Yes, the balls come into play. But also, the path of the kicker as well.

 

Used to be kickers were small. The most unathletic guy in the field. Now, we are seeing larger, athletic, stronger guys as kickers. 

 

Kickers actually lift these days and work on strength and power. However for the most part it seems they lack the consistency on a regular basis that we saw 30 years ago. 

 

 

[SinceThe70s]

Whether it's the balls or the conditioning/evolution of kickers I'm not a fan of the long FGs. Narrowing the goal posts would be a good next step. But the NFL and it's fans love the drama of the down-to-the-wire games so I won't hold my breath expecting changes. 

[BillsShredder83]

Send everyone responsible straight to jail!

[Ya Digg?]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Yes, the balls come into play. But also, the path of the kicker as well.

 

Used to be kickers were small. The most unathletic guy in the field. Now, we are seeing larger, athletic, stronger guys as kickers. 

 

Kickers actually lift these days and work on strength and power. However for the most part it seems they lack the consistency on a regular basis that we saw 30 years ago. 

 

 

The kickers today are worlds more accurate than kickers 30 years ago. If a guy was 80% he was considered one of the best in the league. Nowadays 80% will have any teams fanbase calling for your head 

[BuffaloBillyG]

9 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

The kickers today are worlds more accurate than kickers 30 years ago. If a guy was 80% he was considered one of the best in the league. Nowadays 80% will have any teams fanbase calling for your head 

True, but this also derives from the world of technology we live in. 

 

30 years ago you would have some idiot loudmouth at a bar spew dumb thoughts. Then it transferred to the post game call in shows. Then to internet boards like this and Twitter ECT. Perfect example, there is literally a thread on this very board calling for Allen to be benched. And, being that these days people are either scared or unable to have original thoughts of their own, they mimick and repeat what they hear. Not for nothing, but again, right here on this very board how often do you see someone try and prove their opinion with the term "Joe Marino says..."

 

Of course, modern technology also leads to things like Red Zone, where you will see a long streak of kicks that "should" be converted, missed. So perhaps it seems like more kicks missed than actually occur. 

Edited 18 hours ago by BuffaloBillyG

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Yes, the balls come into play. But also, the path of the kicker as well.

 

Used to be kickers were small. The most unathletic guy in the field. Now, we are seeing larger, athletic, stronger guys as kickers. 

 

Kickers actually lift these days and work on strength and power. However for the most part it seems they lack the consistency on a regular basis that we saw 30 years ago. 

 

 

I am 100% convinced i could beat Tyler Bass in a fight. 

[Doc Brown]

It's the new policy of giving them 60 balls to break in before the season instead of one hour before kickoff like it was the previous 25 years.  I It's easier to catch a baseball one the glove is broken in.  A football goes further when it's broken in.  I don't take any kicking records seriously anymore.

[Red Squirrel]

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

It's the new policy of giving them 60 balls to break in before the season instead of one hour before kickoff like it was the previous 25 years.  I It's easier to catch a baseball one the glove is broken in.  A football goes further when it's broken in.  I don't take any kicking records seriously anymore.

Chris Kluwe claims it is 100% this. He got into the topic on Bluesky a few days ago; he says in the old days they'd give the teams the hour you mention to work on the balls and each team had an equipment guy who was a specialist; because of the time constraints he'd rough up one ball real good and if he was fast, one or two more partially; they'd try to manage the balls to get the good one when they needed it but that wasn't always possible. That changed right around the time his career ended (no need to get into that here) so the equipment guys had time to really work over the footballs and the teams were given control over which balls they'd kick with. And obviously air pressure is also part of it, and most QBs (again, no need to get into that here) want less air pressure while the punters and kickers obviously want them pumped up as much as they can get away with. IIRC his claim is a well-prepped kicking ball will go 10 to 15 yards farther than a brand new ball. And even though he only punted in the NFL, he seems to have a pretty strong understanding of both specialties...I think he placekicked in HS and maybe at UCLA

[Psautcsk]

15 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I am 100% convinced i could beat Tyler Bass in a fight. 

What about Prater? 

Edited 22 minutes ago by Psautcsk

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Red Squirrel said:

Chris Kluwe claims it is 100% this. He got into the topic on Bluesky a few days ago; he says in the old days they'd give the teams the hour you mention to work on the balls and each team had an equipment guy who was a specialist; because of the time constraints he'd rough up one ball real good and if he was fast, one or two more partially; they'd try to manage the balls to get the good one when they needed it but that wasn't always possible. That changed right around the time his career ended (no need to get into that here) so the equipment guys had time to really work over the footballs and the teams were given control over which balls they'd kick with. And obviously air pressure is also part of it, and most QBs (again, no need to get into that here) want less air pressure while the punters and kickers obviously want them pumped up as much as they can get away with. IIRC his claim is a well-prepped kicking ball will go 10 to 15 yards farther than a brand new ball. And even though he only punted in the NFL, he seems to have a pretty strong understanding of both specialties...I think he placekicked in HS and maybe at UCLA

I don't see why QBs were given all week to prepare balls for Sunday while kickers were only given an hour before the game. The standard should be the same for any ball regardless of it being kicked or thrown. So, if we are wanting kickers to have to use brand new balls, QBs should as well.

 

I personally don't see any issue with kickers getting to prepare the balls how they want OR that they are making longer kicks because of it. Kickers back in the 90s and before could prepare the balls how they wanted as well. They introduced the 90 minute rule in 1999. If anything, they are just getting back to the way things used to be for the majority of NFL history.

[Steve Billieve]

10 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

Whether it's the balls or the conditioning/evolution of kickers I'm not a fan of the long FGs. Narrowing the goal posts would be a good next step. But the NFL and it's fans love the drama of the down-to-the-wire games so I won't hold my breath expecting changes. 

 

God forbid players improve across the board. Let's change the rules, not my football.

[BillsShredder83]

4 hours ago, Psautcsk said:

What about Praeter? 

Some of these college kickers are huge now! One Terminator sized kicker is all it will take to put kickers in the cool category with fans lol

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Some of these college kickers are huge now! One Terminator sized kicker is all it will take to put kickers in the cool category with fans lol

 

Is that Myles Garrett?

[947]

There is also a trend in youth/HS kickers doing specialized training just to be kickers. Kickers used to be kids who played other positions too. Now they're training at places like Kohl's Kicking Camp or other similar places from pretty young ages. They do regional/national competitions and rankings like the big QB camps do. Learning the proper kicking mechanics early is huge, not many (if any) youth or HS programs can properly train a kicker.

 

I personally know 2 high school kids who started specializing in Jr High & attended kicking training for years. Both are trending toward playing D1.

[frostbitmic]

The ball flies further in warmer temperatures. Games earlier in the season even in places like Buffalo and Cleveland are generally warm weather games. 11 teams play indoors where the temperatures are controlled and are wind free. If I were a kicker I'd keep my footballs warm while waiting to kick. All of this plus Kickers getting bigger and stronger will result in a 70 yard FG being made soon.

 

I like the super long FG attempts and I like the rule that if missed the other team gets the ball where it was kicked from.

[djp14150]

12 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

Whether it's the balls or the conditioning/evolution of kickers I'm not a fan of the long FGs. Narrowing the goal posts would be a good next step. But the NFL and it's fans love the drama of the down-to-the-wire games so I won't hold my breath expecting changes. 

What if they changed the scoring where say kicks inside 30 are 4 pts, 3 pts 30-49, 50+ 2 pts?

49 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

The ball flies further in warmer temperatures. Games earlier in the season even in places like Buffalo and Cleveland are generally warm weather games. 11 teams play indoors where the temperatures are controlled and are wind free. If I were a kicker I'd keep my footballs warm while waiting to kick. All of this plus Kickers getting bigger and stronger will result in a 70 yard FG being made soon.

 

I like the super long FG attempts and I like the rule that if missed the other team gets the ball where it was kicked from.

 

 

Its always been the case where first half of thr season balls are better snd environment js friendlier.

 

Like other sports leagues-- you get better and bigger athletes.  Many of these vplsyers likely played soccer or sussie football where they kick large balls more

 

These players also work out in the gym.

 

Just surprised we have not seen more dual position players as kickers.

[MJS]

12 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

Whether it's the balls or the conditioning/evolution of kickers I'm not a fan of the long FGs. Narrowing the goal posts would be a good next step. But the NFL and it's fans love the drama of the down-to-the-wire games so I won't hold my breath expecting changes. 

What's wrong with long field goals? You'd rather see an increase in punting?

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Is that Myles Garrett?

Yep

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, 947 said:

There is also a trend in youth/HS kickers doing specialized training just to be kickers. Kickers used to be kids who played other positions too. Now they're training at places like Kohl's Kicking Camp or other similar places from pretty young ages. They do regional/national competitions and rankings like the big QB camps do. Learning the proper kicking mechanics early is huge, not many (if any) youth or HS programs can properly train a kicker.

 

I personally know 2 high school kids who started specializing in Jr High & attended kicking training for years. Both are trending toward playing D1.

Interesting. By far the least sexy position to play, but if you had a kid serious about sports/school, it easily would be the easiest route to getting a scholarship.

 

Not easy, but easiest. Bonus points for parents leary of brain injury side of the sport. Ill admit to being a hypocrite here.

 

I played football among other sports, its my absolute fav thing, but I wont be pushing my 2year old towards it when he gets old enough.  Now if he comes to me and its really his thing, and hes dying to play, im not going to tell him no. Sort of ironically, I wont be pushing him towards soccer either, for the same (same'ish LOL) reason... even though thats most typical sport for kids to start in.

 

I will be trying to nudge him towards wrestling, baseball, basketball. For all the ball busting wrestlers take, it prepared me for real life more than any other sport. I dont think id be half the man I am without it: discipline, motivation, pushing past your comfort zone, all sorts of mental barriers destroying. Translates really well to others sports to... I dont think most people realize how many NFL'ers were high level wrestlers at some point. Especially LB, DL, and OL

1 hour ago, djp14150 said:

What if they changed the scoring where say kicks inside 30 are 4 pts, 3 pts 30-49, 50+ 2 pts?

 

 

Its always been the case where first half of thr season balls are better snd environment js friendlier.

 

Like other sports leagues-- you get better and bigger athletes.  Many of these vplsyers likely played soccer or sussie football where they kick large balls more

 

These players also work out in the gym.

 

Just surprised we have not seen more dual position players as kickers.

Absolutely hate the variable point on kicks lol so with that said, i can look forward to Goodell rolling that out shortly