Is it the receivers or Brady

[jkeerie]

35 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

17 isn't seeing the field well

There is nothing to see!  There are no routes...just a bunch of guys bunched together running around in the hopes of getting open.

[ganesh]

24 minutes ago, BananaB said:

It’s both. I also think it’s all the substitutions instead of just putting the best guy on the field. To be honest, after Shakir I’m not sure who the best guy is because I have seen very little of the rest. Seems like everybody runs a limited amount of routes. Even Shakir, I know everyone says he’s a great slot guy but his routes are limited as well. Like to see him do more as well. 

Is Shakir even playing as a #2 WR ?

[US Egg]

51 minutes ago, JMM said:

Call me old school, or just plain old. 😌 But for the LIFE of me, I simply CANNOT BELIEVE  that this team for two straight years doesn't attempt deep passes PURPOSELY,  not off a Josh scramble, at least 2-3 times a game. I know Josh doesn't throw a great deep ball. I DONT CARE. I know we don't have burners. I DON'T CARE.  You attempt the bomb. You can get a catch, you can get a PI. Yes it can be incomplete,  or a INT. I DON'T CARE. Because it reflects AGRESSIVENESS. It FORCES the D to at least respect the deep third. Teams are DARING us to go deep, and we say ah that's ok, here's a bubble screen. Now Josh was asked about this today, and he paused and said " I have to give guys chances", so perhaps some of it is on him as well.  But it HAS TO CHANGE. NOW.

Hey Howard, we know you’re mad as hell but no need to yell.

[Maine-iac]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

And here we are scoring 13 against one of the worst defences in football lol.

The bills offence is simple to stop- Stop cook and you stop the bills offence.

The chiefs couldn't do that for some reason, Miami did. And we see how ugly the offence looks when the run game doesn't work

Simple to stop?  We scored 13 on two long TD passes.  We were in scoring position multiple other times and turned the ball over.  We could have easily scored 3 more times just by not turning the ball over.  Cook didn't have his usual explosive runs but was still averaging over 4 a carry and Allen threw for 300.  Just don't turn the ball over.  NE we turned the ball over.  Atlanta we turned the ball over.  Not every game are going to be cake walks and our defense gives up a ton of big plays but any week this offense doesn't turn the ball over we generally score 25 to 30 points.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Obviously both but Brady has to be the main culprit. Khalil Shakir is statistically on pace to mirror last season, while Curtis Samuel and Elijah Moore are poised for Career worst seasons. Coleman seems to have not made any noticeable strides, nor do I see any attempt to get him involved in the game aside from the random back shoulder that is just entirely awful. Palmer has been injured and usage inconsistent so it’s really hard to know what he’d be contributing if healthy. 
 

It just strikes me as Brady has no idea how to get the best out of his wide receivers, and Beane didn’t do him too many favors bringing in talent for him to work with.

 

It’s a bit of chicken and the egg, but I also feel that it falls on Brady because of the effect it’s had on Allen. He’s taken a weapon and put a governor on it. He’s antsy in the pocket, passing up open WRs for the big play, and taking sacks and turning the ball over like years past. It’s frustrating that we don’t seem to have the answers.

[DapperCam]

12 minutes ago, khlax3 said:

It’s Brady but our receivers also aren’t great but they had past production on bad teams.
 

Prior to joining the bills:

 

Curtis Samuel stats (joined bills age 27)

   2023 - 62 catches 613 yards 4 TD

   2022 -  64 catches 656 yards 4 td

 

Elijah Moore stats (joined bills age 25)

   2024- 61 catches 538 yards 1 TD

   2023- 59 catches 640 yards 2 TD 

 

Josh Palmer stats (joined bills age

2024 - 39 catches 584 yards 1 TD

2023 - 38 catches 581 yards 2 TD

2022- 72 catches 769 yards 3 TD 

 

MVS (last year)

2 catches for 17 yards 0 TD with Buffalo 

17 catches for 385 yards 4 TD with NO

 

Shakir before brady

    Averaged 15.9 yards per catch

Shakir after Brady

    Averages 10.5 yards per catch

 

although the receivers are not great it seems that under Brady all wr have either regressed or not developed in Keon’s case. Beane certainly screwed up the wr position but Brady has seemed to have a negative impact on all the wrs 

 

 

You could also show the before/after for Diggs. It was a dramatic difference and probably a big reason Diggs started mailing it in and forced his way off the team.

[Bill51390]

It’s both and he’s coached himself out of a head coaching gig next season at least in the NFL. Unless something changes offensively I think he might be done here too. 

[BillsFan130]

Just now, Maine-iac said:

Simple to stop?  We scored 13 on two long TD passes.  We were in scoring position multiple other times and turned the ball over.  We could have easily scored 3 more times just by not turning the ball over.  Cook didn't have his usual explosive runs but was still averaging over 4 a carry and Allen threw for 300.  Just don't turn the ball over.  NE we turned the ball over.  Atlanta we turned the ball over.  Not every game are going to be cake walks and our defense gives up a ton of big plays but any week this offense doesn't turn the ball over we generally score 25 to 30 points.

Yes they are simple to stop. You'll see a common denominator that when cook is kept in check, this offence stalls. Just look at all their losses this year and check Cooks rushing output.

 

Josh can bail them out at times as he's probably the best QB in the game, but more often than not we will see offensive production like this if teams can minimize Cook.

[MasterStrategist]

8 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

No he hasn’t.  You clearly don’t follow the Buffalo closely.  
 

Terry continually brings back the GM that he likes, trusts and  respects despite him being very much unsuccessful over the past five seasons.  
 

meanwhile Beane and McDermott are 100x more successful that Adam has been.  You honestly think Terrybis going to pull the trigger after one less than stellar season?

I dont follow the Sabres at all -  i follow the bills just as much as anyone tho.

 

I'd say Terry should see a major difference between a meddling franchise ( Sabres outside perspective) and one thats been 1 game from a championship.

 

Im not hear to pretend what Terry thinks.  The decision is obvious though.

[BeastMaster]

19 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

Not saying the guy is perfect but we came in to this game averaging roughly 30.  Tell me how many points we have in this game if we don't turn the ball over 3 times.  At least 25 to 30 again this week.  If you were Brady where would you try to be throwing the ball?  Honestly so much concern around Brady when most of the problems are fumbles, interceptions, and penalties.  

Yet here we are scoring almost 30 on the Chiefs.

The Chiefs aren't a powerhouse...especially on defense 

 

KC is a very flawed team that has a weak Oline, mediocre running backs, and a mediocre defense. The difference is Reid and Spagnola are elite at what they do

[BananaB]

16 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Is Shakir even playing as a #2 WR ?

🤷🏼‍♂️

 

 

[MrB1onde]

It's 80% scheme. We hardly throw to the running backs at all anymore. Last season, Cook, Ray Davis, and Ty Johnson combined for 67 catches. This year they have 20, total! Hell in 2023, Cook had 44 catches by himself. This year he has 13. We have also overcorrected to the point where there are too few designed runs called for Josh- his elusiveness may not be the same as in prior years, but he still has the speed. We also don't try deep shots any more. I know Coleman hasn't exactly been setting the league on fire this year, but he averaged 19.8 YPC last year, and he's not a big YAC guy. I think Brady has gotten away from what works best for the personnel we have in favor of putting his own stamp on the offense, with predictably poor results.

[Maine-iac]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Yes they are simple to stop. You'll see a common denominator that when cook is kept in check, this offence stalls. Just look at all their losses this year and check Cooks rushing output.

 

Josh can bail them out at times as he's probably the best QB in the game, but more often than not we will see offensive production like this if teams can minimize Cook.

If they're simple to stop then how come minus us turning the ball over they are not stopping us?  The common denominator is turnovers.  When we turn the ball over we score less points.  Crazy I know.  

[Billsatlastin2018]

When your BEST WR is rated #46 (Shakir) FORTY- SIX FFS and the next 2 are #72 (Coleman) and #91 (Palmer),then #17 + #4 have to do EVERYTHING!

 

These sub standard Receivers are absolute trash!

 

This means Brady has to figure out how to cater to their very limited talents, so that every play isn’t a run by Cook or an 8 second scramble by Allen looking for NOBODY IS EVER EATING, LET ALONE OPEN WR!

 

[KOKBILLS]

1 hour ago, BuffBills51 said:

Simple question. Is it Brady’s scheme or the receivers that can’t get open? 

[Maine-iac]

8 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

The Chiefs aren't a powerhouse...especially on defense 

 

KC is a very flawed team that has a weak Oline, mediocre running backs, and a mediocre defense. The difference is Reid and Spagnola are elite at what they do

If KC isn't good on defense then how come teams are only averaging 17.7 points against them and only one team has scored as many points as we did against them?

[philholbroo]

How much of Brady's scheme is shaped by what the head coach is looking to do in that game. A lot of people here blame Brady but it is also possible he is calling plays in a smaller window of possibilities. Could also be just Brady who succeed with Chase and jefferson and burrow so who wouldn't.i think there is more possibility the play calling is being limited by overall game plan.

[BillsFan130]

Just now, Maine-iac said:

If they're simple to stop then how come minus us turning the ball over they are not stopping us?  The common denominator is turnovers.  When we turn the ball over we score less points.  Crazy I know.  

3 , three and outs today. Is that not stopping us?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BeastMaster]

Just now, Maine-iac said:

If KC isn't good on defense then how come teams are only averaging 17.7 points against them and only one team has scored as many points as we did against them?

Cause their offense was busy scoring points mostly 

 

They are obviously well coached and Spags gets as much out of them as he can, but they aren't world beaters. Their record despite their high powered passing offense is proof that they are not what they once were on that side of the ball

[Maine-iac]

Just now, BillsFan130 said:

3 , three and outs today. Is that not stopping us?

 

 

 

 

 

 

11 drives and we had 3 three and outs.  We had more first downs than Miami.