Bills Don't have Receiver Problem, they have a perception problem-- Jim Kubiak BN

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, First Round Bust said:

WGR AM show brought up an interesting point yesterday...historically thrwoing the long ball (touch, loft, accuracy) has not been one of Josh strenghts...a point I have made over the years as well..partly his fault, partly the WR issue...resulting the OC play-calling not having confidence in that play and talking himself out of it ??? flame on...    

lol

 

where do you guys come up w this stuff

 

[Mikey152]

Counterpoint to all the WR haters:

 

Last season we brought in MVS as a deep threat. He did basically nothing (2/26 in 6 games) and was cut during the season.

 

After he was cut, he was signed by the saints and put up 17 catches for 385 yards and 4 TDs in 8 games. Cooper (his replacement) over that same time frame had 20 catches for 297 and 2 TDs.

 

Even Diggs and Davis looked like trash when Brady took over mid season. It is time to start seeing the writing on the wall...it's not just the WR. The real question is, is it even really a problem?  Numbers wise it might be, but scoring wise and record wise I am not convinced it is.

 

 

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

It's such a gross exaggeration, bordering on making your whole statement false. We have plenty of talent in our WR room. It's not a league leading group by any means, but the harder you guys dig your heels in making it sound like we have David Nelson and Donald Jones back there the more ridiculous the whole argument gets.

I suspect once Allen starts playing better and hitting the receivers that have been open, the perception of just how bad our WR corps is will change. It’s also on Brady as well, don’t like his passing designs.

[Buffalo03]

2 hours ago, yall said:

I mostly agree with this premise. I still say our receiving corps needs and upgrade, but the underneath stuff has absolutely been there and Josh isn't playing at his best.

 

If he gets just a little bit better at seeing/taking the underneath stuff we'll be fine.

As long as it isn't too underneath. 7 or 8 yards underneath is fine. When I see 3 yard passes on 2nd and long or a tunnel screen or whatever they call it on 2nd and long, I wanna rip my hair out

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, Brand J said:

I suspect once Allen starts playing better and hitting the receivers that have been open, the perception of just how bad our WR corps is will change. It’s also on Brady as well, don’t like his passing designs.

100%. Not a fan of Brady's play design at all. Dorsey had a similar problem.

[The Jokeman]

2 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

Yes, the Bills could use a receiver who can go deep. But those who want them to switch to a heavy pass plan are living a fantasy. If the Bills come out in 5-wide and try to sling the ball all over the field, the Chiefs will run them out of the stadium.

 

The Chiefs defense is weakest against runs between the tackles and against play action. The Bills need to put Josh under center and run the ball—not exclusively, but primarily—and let the pass game work off of that. 

I agree with you. Fundamental football wins time and time again. McDermott is trying to build that with his complimentary model.

[Buffalo4Life01]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

lol

 

where do you guys come up w this stuff

 

I believe he's referring to the classic 'bomb' throw, not the 20 to 30 yard frozen ropes that Josh is so good at throwing.  When it comes to bombs, rainbows, balls that have to travel with some touch 35 to 50+ yards in the air, Allen has never been great at this throw.  He lacks touch and would badly overthrow his receivers early in his career and now seems to underthrow them more often.  

Edited 3 hours ago by Buffalo4Life01

[Roundybout]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

100%. Not a fan of Brady's play design at all. Dorsey had a similar problem.

Brady and Dorsey both have/had the same problem of stacking receiving routes way too close to each other. There have been a couple plays recently where we seem to have a receiver and a TE right on top of each other. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Brand J said:

I suspect once Allen starts playing better and hitting the receivers that have been open, the perception of just how bad our WR corps is will change. It’s also on Brady as well, don’t like his passing designs.

the perception of just how bad our WR corps is just won Allen MVP last year lol

 

it's not some secretly talented group

Just now, Buffalo4Life01 said:

I believe he's referring to the classic 'bomb' throw, not the 20 to 30 yard frozen ropes that Josh is so good at throwing.  When it comes to bombs, rainbows, balls that have to travel with some touch 35 to 50+ yards in the air, Allen has never been great at this throw.  He lacks touch and would badly overthrow his receivers early in his career and now seems to underthrow them more often.  

literally no QB is great at 50+ yard throws

[BearNorth]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

When I saw Brady make mention that we only get about 8 drives per game, I cringed. 
 

If he knows this.. Allen knows this.  And to come out and say it, means it’s stressing them.  
 

And it’s a massively underreported strain on this Offense. 

Not sure what Brady is looking at.  I went back and counted, Bills have had at least 9 possessions in every game, and are averaging 10.6.  What is up are the INT's and the stops on downs by our opponents. Josh has had 4 ints and a fumble, and Coleman lost a fumble.

 

Defense has recovered 5 fumbles and have intercepted 3 passes on the season.

[The Jokeman]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

the perception of just how bad our WR corps is just won Allen MVP last year lol

 

it's not some secretly talented group

literally no QB is great at 50+ yard throws

Except Aaron Rodgers lol but agree. 

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

 

Even Diggs and Davis looked like trash when Brady took over mid season. It is time to start seeing the writing on the wall...it's not just the WR. The real question is, is it even really a problem?  Numbers wise it might be, but scoring wise and record wise I am not convinced it is.

 

 

This was exactly Beane's point when he went on WGR. He's been saying it's not a problem all along because it's basically intentional. I don't necessarily love that, but I get it. He has a plan.

People keep arguing more personnel that doesn't align with that plan. It's like they weren't even listening. This team doesn't want Randy Moss, they want Deion Branch.

[Psautcsk]

1 minute ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Unfortunately you'd most likely lose. Sorry for snapping back. That's my bad. My hope is for them to find their grove before the running attack is figured out or knock on wood, injuries happen. There's a lot of talk about Josh not being right. Idk maybe right?  If so he's got to be accountable for his part in the issues with the passing game. Whats your thoughts?  Go Bills!

Josh getting beaten up is my main worry when running with Cook does not work or we need to play from behind. Josh may have an injury. I remember after he scored on the tush push last week he came off the field shaking his throwing hand. It is just a matter of time until he takes a hit that does some serious damage with the way our passing attack has been functioning of late. I do think things will improve, hopefully beginning this Sunday. Go Bills!

 

[Brand J]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

the perception of just how bad our WR corps is just won Allen MVP last year lol

 

it's not some secretly talented group

I’m not saying they’re super talented, I’m saying they’re not as bad as they’re being portrayed. Are there times when the defense wins and covers them up? Of course! But there are opportunities there that have been missed. Whether that’s Allen or the OL not giving him enough time and not directly the receivers. Opposing teams’ secondaries aren’t filled with Ed Reeds and Deion Sanders week after week. 

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

It's such a gross exaggeration, bordering on making your whole statement false. We have plenty of talent in our WR room. It's not a league leading group by any means, but the harder you guys dig your heels in making it sound like we have David Nelson and Donald Jones back there the more ridiculous the whole argument gets.

I said with respect to the type of throws that Allen excels at.  Maybe in the most generic sense our WR group isn't the worst, just a bottom 10 group. 

 

Our best WR is Shakir and he is not a good 15 - 30 yard yard receiver at the boundary.  Moore is a gadget guy, Shavers is a blocking WR that would struggle to make the practice squad of many teams; Coleman has yet to step up and is not playing well by any metric and both Palmer & Samuel's have had availability issues. So excuse me if I'm struggling to see all the talent in the WR room.  And I stand by my assertion that this is the worst WR group since 2018.  

 

But I do think that if Palmer can get and stay healthy he might upgrade the receivers quite a bit. I also haven't given up on Coleman who I would not be shocked turned things around and became very productive. But in the here and now we have a WR problem and I can't understand those that claim we don't.

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo4Life01]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

the perception of just how bad our WR corps is just won Allen MVP last year lol

 

it's not some secretly talented group

literally no QB is great at 50+ yard throws

If you don't witness with your own eyes how poorly Allen throws the classic 'bomb' throw, I don't know what to tell you.  This has been discussed on this board for years at length and it's pretty well documented and accepted that it's a very poor part of Allen's game.  Even guys who study the film a lot more than I do, Joe Marino for example just this week, talked about Allen never having good touch on those bomb throws.  You want to see a pretty bomb thrower who was normally really accurate with them?  Look no further than prime Arron Rogers or Tom Brady.   It's just not a good part of Allen's game an that's okay.  No QB is great at everything and they all have their flaws. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

This was exactly Beane's point when he went on WGR. He's been saying it's not a problem all along because it's basically intentional. I don't necessarily love that, but I get it. He has a plan.

People keep arguing more personnel that doesn't align with that plan. It's like they weren't even listening. This team doesn't want Randy Moss, they want Deion Branch.

w no need, frankly, for allen

 

the idea should still be allen for purdy and three firsts

Just now, Brand J said:

I’m not saying they’re super talented, I’m saying they’re not as bad as they’re being portrayed. Are there times when the defense wins and covers them up? Of course! But there are opportunities there that have been missed. Whether that’s Allen or the OL not giving him enough time and not directly the receivers. Opposing teams’ secondaries aren’t filled with Ed Reeds and Deion Sanders week after week. 

i think it's possible they're actually worse tbh

Just now, Buffalo4Life01 said:

If you don't witness with your own eyes how poorly Allen throws the classic 'bomb' throw, I don't know what to tell you.  This has been discussed on this board for years at length and it's pretty well documented and accepted that it's a very poor part of Allen's game.  Even guys who study the film a lot more than I do, Joe Marino for example just this week, talked about Allen never having good touch on those bomb throws.  You want to see a pretty bomb thrower who was normally really accurate with them?  Look no further than prime Arron Rogers or Tom Brady.   It's just not a good part of Allen's game an that's okay.  No QB is great at everything and they all have their flaws. 

it's been repeated and it's inaccurate 

[NewEra]

I think it’s a bit of both. We need an added dimension (speed) at WR AND Josh needs to play better.  

[CincyBillsFan]

8 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

Even Diggs and Davis looked like trash when Brady took over mid season. It is time to start seeing the writing on the wall...it's not just the WR. The real question is, is it even really a problem?  Numbers wise it might be, but scoring wise and record wise I am not convinced it is.

 

 

I can sort of agree with this.  Only time will tell. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

the perception of just how bad our WR corps is just won Allen MVP last year lol

 

it's not some secretly talented group

literally no QB is great at 50+ yard throws

 

3 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Except Aaron Rodgers lol but agree. 

Bite your tongue! 🤨

Edited 3 hours ago by Ridgewaycynic2013