Plausible X/#1 receiver trade candidates — are there any?

[BuffaloRebound]

3 minutes ago, Puckman5 said:

I guess the question is what is going g to help more, a WR threat or a DB?  To me, a true receiving threat that can open up the offense will have a greater impact than what a new DB can.  Too many holes to fill in defense and who knows how long they'd take to acclimate to the McDefense.  

Agreed.  Gotta see what Hairston can do and Poyer can’t be any worse than Rapp.  Coleman has shown he aint ready and there’s no WR currently on the roster thats moving the needle.  

[BillsShredder83]

21 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah I do blame him... It's an unforgivable error. Missing on a draft pick, that's forgivable. Failing to make a no brainer addition is not. Right now we are wasting an entire season of our elite QB while he's in his prime. That's a fireable offense.

 

This season we could have been watching Allen throw rockets to Metcalf downfield which would have been fun to watch if nothing else. It would have opened up everything underneath too. Nothing about the offense the last two weeks has been fun to watch. Beane rested on last year's laurels and used that as an excuse to run it back. I genuinely think he believed that last year's results meant we didn't need a #1 WR and he doesn't have a head coach that tried to convince him otherwise. If he really believed we needed one he would have closed the deal. They (and much of this board) had the completely wrong philosophy about how to build this team to a championship level.

 

Agreed.  I'm not in the business of killing him on any one guy (which is probably too lenient, especially w/ DK, who we dropped ball on twice), but the approach as a whole to the position has not been serious, which is even a worse indictment than cherry picking individual guys we could've had.

 

I'm still behind Beane, he hasnt been perfect, def been mistakes, but I think he's been overall a net positive.  He's seemed to learn at a lot of his mistakes, except for WR position, which is frustrating.  What I will say is i keep seeing people say "Will his pride and that WGR segment keep him from making an acquisition."  If that were the case internally (we'd never hear that), you have to move on.  If nobody is to be had at the deadline, but hes burning up the phones, thats different IMO.... 

 

As far as the pride thing/WGR ---- I think it's pretty easy to make a move and say, "We expected better growth from our young guys (Keon) at the position, we still believe that's possible, but we needed to make a move that made us better TODAY".  If theres a deal to be had that we miss out on, and it's known inside the FO, it was him wanting to save face.... then even I'm 100% out.  That would be incredibly* foolish, and I'd hope Josh has enough cajones to call it out (internally) as well.

[DCOrange]

33 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as far as moving up in 2024, but want to point out there were 3 trades ahead of us.  None of them appear to have been moves we could've made, but teams were and are always willing to wheel-n-deal.  We DONT know that he wasnt burning up the phones trying to make it happen, very fair.

 

The annoyance has been the lack of attempts in general. Specifically in 2024 we probably should've double dipped, in what was supposed to be incredibly deep class.  Its fair to say that class didnt turn out like people thought, but it serves as a microcosm for the mentality we have at the position.  Even then, there were guys: Jalen McMillan - late 3rd rounder, REALLY turned a corner at end of last season:

 

"McMillan, a 2024 third round pick (No. 92 overall), had 37 receptions for 461 yards and 8 touchdowns as a rookie. He put up the bulk of those stats down the stretch with 24 receptions for 316 yards over the final 5 games of the regular season — a stretch in which he led the NFL with 7 touchdowns"

 

Troy Franklin in the 4th could still develop into something.

 

2023: Jayden Reed went in the 2nd, as did Rashee Rice and Marvin Mims. Tank Dell, Josh Downs, Michael Wilson, Tre Tucker in 3rd. Puka, infamously in the 5th.  Kayshon Boutte in the 5th.

 

This isnt playing hindsight... it'd be dumb to sit her and say "PUKA!" for any one player... but the body of work, shows their are WR's drafted later to hit on.  It's hard to hit on one, which is why with Josh Allen here, you should be taking at least one in the top 4 rounds each year, with a guy on the high end of that when an opportunity presents itself.

 

You have to make it a priority and keep swinging. 

 

You can't say "Elite FA's are too expensive. Trades for them are too expensive. By the time we pick in 1st rd, its too late. Why bother taking a guy if it's not a guy in the first  15 picks"

 

I don't fault them for taking Keon, but you also can't get so married to any one guy, that you refuse to keep swinging.

I would have liked to double dip in 2024 (though the guys I really wanted to double dip with were Troy Franklin and Javon Baker and I think he's already out of the NFL at the moment; he was on Philly's practice squad for a minute but I think got dropped). Realistically, let's say we double dip somewhere in the 3rd-6th rounds. The guys that went in that range are:

• Malachi Corley - cut
• Jermaine Burton - 0 snaps this year
• Roman Wilson - Playing around 10% snaps on a WR needy Steelers team
• Jalen McMillan - hasn't played yet this season, didn't really do anything until guys ahead of him got hurt and he'll be returning to a WR4 or WR5 role
• Luke McCaffrey - playing almost 40% snaps this season, starting to pop a little
• Troy Franklin - starter and drawing targets but incredibly unproductive
• Javon Baker - cut
• Tez Walker - 50/50 chance he plays 0 snaps in a given game this season
• Jacob Cowing - been out due to injury the whole year
• Anthony Gould - has played a couple snaps
• Ainias Smith - cut
• Jamari Thrash - playing 30-40% of snaps for inept Cleveland offense
• Bub Means - out for the year
• Jha'Quan Jackson - cut
• Malik Washington - starter for the Dolphins
• Johnny Wilson - out for the year
• Casey Washington - has played decent amount of snaps for Atlanta
• Tejhuan Palmer - 0 snaps this year
• Jordan Whittington - starter for the Rams
• Ryan Flournoy - had that one game

Again, would have loved to double dip, but the likelihood that would have saved us is 0%. Of the 20 guys that went in that range, you're talking about 5 or 6 that appear to be playable depth pieces and no difference makers thus far.

 

The real issue is we made a fairly significant trade for Cooper, took Coleman just outside the 1st round, and signed Curtis Samuel and Josh Palmer to fairly significant contracts (not huge but they were our biggest free agent signings of the last two offseasons) and none of those shots have panned out for us so far.

Edited 3 hours ago by DCOrange

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Most of this is delusional, except about Rapp & White.

 

-A ton of "ifs" --> If the playcalling gets better

 

-Josh Palmer can get separation, as we saw before he was injured against the Falcons, 2 targets, 2 receptions for 60 yards. --> Two plays outweighs what we've seen all season  We saw Palmer get open against the Ravens in week one in the 4th quarter for a big play, and he did get good seperation

 

-We also know that Curtis Samuel can run a 4.31, Moore a 4.35 - Samuel has done ZERO in 2 years. "If" he gets healthy --> incredibly delusional.  Moore isnt and has never been a deep ball guy, even at the height of his career (forever ago, and not since college has he been good) Both receivers are not utilized in the current passing offense very much for whatever reason.

 

- fans that say that Amari Cooper opened up the offense just by being on the field seem to ignore that it stayed open even when he was on the bench - again denying what actually happened, with what "should've happened"... Cooper changed the offense when he was out there, and when we missed him, it 100% showed The 2024 Buffalo Bills had the #2 scoring offense that season so Cooper with his 20 receptions ALL SEASON really didn't account for much

 

I do appreciate our run game, but undeniably its been harder to do since teams treat us as one dimensional.  Same thing as before when Kincaid gets back.  Dudes looked great, but teams are going to commit to shutting him down, and making us try to beat them with other WR's.  Who can take advantage of that?  So far we've shown it to be nobody

It's not delusional if the Buffalo Bills OC gets his head out of his posterior and starts scheming the passing offense as well as he schemes the run offense at times. (EDIT, Brian Daboll was near-genius at setting up a passing game.)

 

What do we know! That Stephon Diggs could juke the cleats off most DBs and make them look silly all the way up until Joe Brady took over mid-2023. (It's why Beane traded a #1 for him.)

Bills OC Joe Brady pushed the run game, and Diggs took a back seat. Week 14, after the bye and OC change against KC, Diggs had 11 targets, 4 receptions for 24 yards. Against Dallas, 5 targets, 4 receptions for 48 yards. Against the Chargers, 8 targets, 5 receptions for 29 yards. Against the Patriots, 7 targets, 4 receptions for 26 yards. Against Miami in the last regular season game, 8 targets, 7 receptions for 87 yards.

 

Now, mind you, for the 2023 season, Diggs was killing it with 160 targets with 120 receptions for 1183 yards, 8 TDs. Alas, the Bills were 6-6 at the bye, and despite Diggs killing it, the Bills were losing a lot of games. Clearly, McD made the right call with the change of OCs. 

 

That #1 main WR in Diggs took a back seat in being the focal point of the offense after Brady took over. While different receivers had better games than Diggs after the bye. That #1 WR was never the same. 

 

Lastly, QB Josh Allen usually throws the most to the receivers he trusts the most, and if you look at catch percentage and catch success rate, that was Shakir and Kincade that year. This continues to be the case even today, as Josh Allen has his favorite targets no matter whose name is called for that play. 

 

Joe Brady was the passing game coordinator for LSU while he had Joe Burrow at QB and Ja'Mar Chase, Justin Jefferson at WR for a season. So the man should know how to scheme a top passing offense. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Nihilarian

[BillsShredder83]

20 hours ago, VW82 said:

People really think Saints are trading Olave for a 1st?  That guy is about to get paid.  If they can't get a deal done (cause he's worth A LOT), the price will be two 1sts or 1st and 2nd and..., and then give Olave 30M+ AAV contract. 

 

Meanwhile, we are projected to have under 8M in cap space next year, and we just gave out a bunch of extensions. 

That second statement contradicts the first, more than it supports it like you're suggesting.  They are a bad team, with no QB and MAJOR cap problems, and two WR's needing paid out. You could be right and Olave stays, but Shaheed will certainly be available.

 

Their choices are:

1. Somehow be even further cash-strapped without a QB.  AKA the Bengals without a Burrow (lol)

2. Keep 1 premier WR, relieve cap problems, and stack up on assets they can use rebuild with their new QB, or potentially need to try and move up

 

They're by far the best team out of the ones jockeying for #1 overall, I could easily see them winning at minimum 2 or even 3 games rest of season.  That makes drafting their guy that much tougher.... OR you get rid of a guy who might help you accidentally win one of those games right now... secure your spot in top 3 picks,' and again, have extra assets to build for future.

 

Obviously I'm biased in that I want one (hell, i want both), but they would have to be the most dumbbbb franchise in existence to try and hang onto both, for SOOOO many reasons: short, medium and long term.  Theyre the Saints, so would it shock me?  No.  But I'd still be shocked.

 

I'd be willing to blow them outta the water with a deal that makes the decision an easy choice.  Also, I truly believe Keon getting thrown in with high draft picks, could serve them very well.  They're a team that could afford to line him up in the slot and let him grow there, while he's cheap

[Pete]

40 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

It's not delusional if the Buffalo Bills OC gets his head out of his posterior and starts scheming the passing offense as well as he schemes the run offense at times. (EDIT, Brian Daboll was near-genius at setting up a passing game.)

 

What do we know! That Stephon Diggs could juke the cleats off most DBs and make them look silly all the way up until Joe Brady took over mid-2023. (It's why Beane traded a #1 for him.)

Bills OC Joe Brady pushed the run game, and Diggs took a back seat. Week 14, after the bye and OC change against KC, Diggs had 11 targets, 4 receptions for 24 yards. Against Dallas, 5 targets, 4 receptions for 48 yards. Against the Chargers, 8 targets, 5 receptions for 29 yards. Against the Patriots, 7 targets, 4 receptions for 26 yards. Against Miami in the last regular season game, 8 targets, 7 receptions for 87 yards.

 

Now, mind you, for the 2023 season, Diggs was killing it with 160 targets with 120 receptions for 1183 yards, 8 TDs. Alas, the Bills were 6-6 at the bye, and despite Diggs killing it, the Bills were losing a lot of games. Clearly, McD made the right call with the change of OCs. 

 

That #1 main WR in Diggs took a back seat in being the focal point of the offense after Brady took over. While different receivers had better games than Diggs after the bye. That #1 WR was never the same. 

 

Lastly, QB Josh Allen usually throws the most to the receivers he trusts the most, and if you look at catch percentage and catch success rate, that was Shakir and Kincade that year. This continues to be the case even today, as Josh Allen has his favorite targets no matter whose name is called for that play. 

 

Joe Brady was the passing game coordinator for LSU while he had Joe Burrow at QB and Ja'Mar Chase, Justin Jefferson at WR for a season. So the man should know how to scheme a top passing offense. 

Joe Brady being passing coordinator for LSU doesn’t impress me.  I could be coordinator with Joe Burrow, Justin Jefferson and JaMar Chase, and he successful

Edited 2 hours ago by Pete

[BillsShredder83]

17 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

What if we already score 30?

Thats awesome!  We're not scoring 30 on Spags, nor on Fangio... and we're certainly not doing it in back2back weeks in January.

 

We have Josh Allen, and have neutralized him.  Allowing defenses to crowd the line, between the hashes, and passing lanes over the middle, the only place we can complete a pass.

 

Lastly, McD is not getting a SINGLE resource from me on that D.  He got all of our premium picks there this year. All the extensions on that side.  Not only do we not look better, but we look worse.

 

If we could trade a 1st rd pick for the '85 Bears I'm still saying no, until he proves (starting year 9 maybe?!?) that he can put those resources to good use.

 

Im not exaggerating when I say, if we sent Beane out with the ability to use all our draft picks over the next 2 years to trade for guys on defense.... we still don't get results anywhere near what we're paying out.  Certainly not in 2025 we aren't, but we might even somehow turn out better in 2026 on that side of the ball.

 

So no, 0 resources for the defense, we're multiple positions and a full scheme away from success on that side.  They are what they are.  Maybe get some meat off the bone before we throw it in the trash for another.

 

We're a #1 away from an unstoppable offense. Thats the way you roll at trade deadline

17 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

So we score 30 or more 13 out of the last 20 games Allen has started and averaging close to 30 but if we don't trade for a WR our offense isn't capable of winning?

That'd be awesome for the rest of the regular season.  This offense, is NOT scoring 30 vs playoff defenses. Certainly not past WC.

 

What makes anyone think we're even 2 high end players on defense away from a "good" playoff defense? Definition of insanity.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I don't know I just watched video of him vs Az in week 5 and he looked like exactly what we need. He caught 5 for well over a hundred and was busting through seams to get open. I think with JA17 and not Cam Ward it would be great!

 

What I don't know is what his contract is like off hand? If anyone knows please pass along, don't have time to research.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[henry jones]

If we were going to trade for another wideout or more defensive help, the bye week would’ve been a great time to do so.  Oh well, maybe this offseason

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

It's not delusional if the Buffalo Bills OC gets his head out of his posterior and starts scheming the passing offense as well as he schemes the run offense at times. (EDIT, Brian Daboll was near-genius at setting up a passing game.)

 

What do we know! That Stephon Diggs could juke the cleats off most DBs and make them look silly all the way up until Joe Brady took over mid-2023. (It's why Beane traded a #1 for him.)

Bills OC Joe Brady pushed the run game, and Diggs took a back seat. Week 14, after the bye and OC change against KC, Diggs had 11 targets, 4 receptions for 24 yards. Against Dallas, 5 targets, 4 receptions for 48 yards. Against the Chargers, 8 targets, 5 receptions for 29 yards. Against the Patriots, 7 targets, 4 receptions for 26 yards. Against Miami in the last regular season game, 8 targets, 7 receptions for 87 yards.

 

Now, mind you, for the 2023 season, Diggs was killing it with 160 targets with 120 receptions for 1183 yards, 8 TDs. Alas, the Bills were 6-6 at the bye, and despite Diggs killing it, the Bills were losing a lot of games. Clearly, McD made the right call with the change of OCs. 

 

That #1 main WR in Diggs took a back seat in being the focal point of the offense after Brady took over. While different receivers had better games than Diggs after the bye. That #1 WR was never the same. 

 

Lastly, QB Josh Allen usually throws the most to the receivers he trusts the most, and if you look at catch percentage and catch success rate, that was Shakir and Kincade that year. This continues to be the case even today, as Josh Allen has his favorite targets no matter whose name is called for that play. 

 

Joe Brady was the passing game coordinator for LSU while he had Joe Burrow at QB and Ja'Mar Chase, Justin Jefferson at WR for a season. So the man should know how to scheme a top passing offense. 

Pointing at a dude who all but admitted he quiet quit during the season as proof of anything is foolhardy imo.

Edited 1 hour ago by FireChans

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Me thinks this 'trying to re-sign him' bit is them attempting to improve his trade value.  Hes the one guy we've heard consistently about being available.  Get teams to reach out and show their interest, field some rough trade parameter offers, Lucy fakes pulling the ball back from Charlie Brown last second....

 

Its what I'd do, especially since hes likely the best WR that ends up available... youre basically reminding teams Olave orrrrrr Jakobi Meyers? LOL

Did we actually hear that the saints were interested in moving him or is that everyone just assuming he’s available because they are bad?  🤷🏻‍♂️ 

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Joe Brady being passing coordinator for LSU doesn’t impress me.  I could be coordinator with Joe Burrow, Justin Jefferson and JaMar Chase, and he successful

No you couldn’t 🤪 you’d probably go

0-11

[Warriorspikes51]

34 minutes ago, henry jones said:

If we were going to trade for another wideout or more defensive help, the bye week would’ve been a great time to do so.  Oh well, maybe this offseason

IF anything happens it'll be today, tomorrow,   Nov 3rd    or at the deadline Tuesday, November 4, at 4 p.m. ET

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Did we actually hear that the saints were interested in moving him or is that everyone just assuming he’s available because they are bad?  🤷🏻‍♂️ 

No you couldn’t 🤪 you’d probably go

0-11

Joe didn’t ***** it up so it can’t be that hard.  I can run bubble screens and jet sweeps 

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, DCOrange said:

I would have liked to double dip in 2024 (though the guys I really wanted to double dip with were Troy Franklin and Javon Baker and I think he's already out of the NFL at the moment; he was on Philly's practice squad for a minute but I think got dropped). Realistically, let's say we double dip somewhere in the 3rd-6th rounds. The guys that went in that range are:

• Malachi Corley - cut
• Jermaine Burton - 0 snaps this year
• Roman Wilson - Playing around 10% snaps on a WR needy Steelers team
• Jalen McMillan - hasn't played yet this season, didn't really do anything until guys ahead of him got hurt and he'll be returning to a WR4 or WR5 role
• Luke McCaffrey - playing almost 40% snaps this season, starting to pop a little
• Troy Franklin - starter and drawing targets but incredibly unproductive
• Javon Baker - cut
• Tez Walker - 50/50 chance he plays 0 snaps in a given game this season
• Jacob Cowing - been out due to injury the whole year
• Anthony Gould - has played a couple snaps
• Ainias Smith - cut
• Jamari Thrash - playing 30-40% of snaps for inept Cleveland offense
• Bub Means - out for the year
• Jha'Quan Jackson - cut
• Malik Washington - starter for the Dolphins
• Johnny Wilson - out for the year
• Casey Washington - has played decent amount of snaps for Atlanta
• Tejhuan Palmer - 0 snaps this year
• Jordan Whittington - starter for the Rams
• Ryan Flournoy - had that one game

Again, would have loved to double dip, but the likelihood that would have saved us is 0%. Of the 20 guys that went in that range, you're talking about 5 or 6 that appear to be playable depth pieces and no difference makers thus far.

 

The real issue is we made a fairly significant trade for Cooper, took Coleman just outside the 1st round, and signed Curtis Samuel and Josh Palmer to fairly significant contracts (not huge but they were our biggest free agent signings of the last two offseasons) and none of those shots have panned out for us so far.

But we could’ve had. Tory Horton this season!!!  I’m just giving you a hard time.  😉 

 

Horton would be perfect….but we wouldn’t have Walker.  Certainly seems like he would’ve been a better pick than Jackson though 
 

 

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Joe didn’t ***** it up so it can’t be that hard.  I can run bubble screens and jet sweeps 

Joe also had Steve Ensminger to help.  
 

You can tell them to run them, but would you be able to draw them up using X’s and O’s?

[DCOrange]

5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

But we could’ve had. Tory Horton this season!!!  I’m just giving you a hard time.  😉 

 

Horton would be perfect….but we wouldn’t have Walker.  Certainly seems like he would’ve been a better pick than Jackson though 
 

 

Joe also had Steve Ensminger to help.  
 

You can tell them to run them, but would you be able to draw them up using X’s and O’s?

Horton has been one of my guys for the last two years too. I admittedly do not think I have as good an eye for receivers as I do QBs though lol.

[LEBills]

1 minute ago, DCOrange said:

Horton has been one of my guys for the last two years too. I admittedly do not think I have as good an eye for receivers as I do QBs though lol.

Horton has been good! Keep the faith, he would have been a good addition here especially since he can return punts and be a deep threat.

[Pete]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

But we could’ve had. Tory Horton this season!!!  I’m just giving you a hard time.  😉 

 

Horton would be perfect….but we wouldn’t have Walker.  Certainly seems like he would’ve been a better pick than Jackson though 
 

 

Joe also had Steve Ensminger to help.  
 

You can tell them to run them, but would you be able to draw them up using X’s and O’s?

rudimentary knowledge- I hire cover 1 as consultants.

 

 Joe Brady doesn’t target RBs - tear those pages out.  Deep throws- - tear those pages out. Anti Blitz plays- tear those pages out.  Short yardage plays - tear those out.  Creative play design- tear those pages out….this playbook is getting lighter and lighter- piece of cake!🎂 

Edited 20 minutes ago by Pete

[NewEra]

18 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Horton has been one of my guys for the last two years too. I admittedly do not think I have as good an eye for receivers as I do QBs though lol.

WRs are tough imo. Separating the truly special players from the rest, I feel like “the rest” are often at the mercy of the team that drafts him, how they use him and who their QB is.  

16 minutes ago, Pete said:

 

 Joe Brady doesn’t target RBs - tear those pages out.  Deep throws- - tear those pages out. Anti Blitz plays- tear those pages out.  Short yardage plays - tear those out.  Creative play design- tear those pages out….this playbook is getting lighter and lighter- piece of cake!🎂 

lol.  
 

Brady targeted RBs last season.

 

Deep throw- we don’t really have anyone to go deep.

 

We were better vs the blitz last season.

 

We have been based on short yardage plays since he took over

 

creative play wise- I don’t think he lacks creativity, rather he tries to get cute and use his creativity at the wrong time.  
 

recency bias has taken over