SNF: Detroit @ Kansas City (no Bills stuff in this thread please)

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

15 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Yeah, the guy who has consistently been fined for this kind of behavior is a victim. It's clearly everybody else's fault. 

 

 

I am talking about him not shaking Mahomes’s hand.

[ExiledInIllinois]

This is insane!

 

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

29 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Yeah, the guy who has consistently been fined for this kind of behavior is a victim. It's clearly everybody else's fault. 

 

 

A broken clock is right twice a day, blind squirrel finds a nut.

[Big Blitz]

 

[PetermansRedemption]

6 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Of all the people he could have gone after on the Chiefs, he goes after that guy? Anyone know the backstory of it? I watched the entire game but didn’t see anything between Branch/JuJu

[Ralonzo]

7 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

They didn't have zero penalties. A couple were declined. 

 

The refs obviously made a mistake on the Kelce "catch." Mistakes happen. I see them in every game I watch. 

 

When the Chiefs are on the wrong side of a 13-4 flagfest...crickets. Zero claims of "rigged." But when it's 4 flags to 2 in their favor, there's an obvious agenda. Funny how that works, eh?

 

So the penalties that were called against KC, were penalties that wouldn't hurt KC? Not helping your argument there.

 

Mistakes happen both ways, usually. Like, a roughly equal split. When that happens so seldom in games with ONE particular team, people notice, and judging from social media, it's almost every fan of every other team that isn't the Chrefs.

 

When the Chiefs are on the wrong side of a 13-4 flagfest, it's because they didn't call the other 40 illegal formations and false starts committed by Jawaan Taylor. And when those 4 extend drive or take opposing points off the board. Funny how that works, eh? Funny how what everyone else is seeing just isnt so, eh?

 

Enough lawyerspeak, isn't there a Hamplanet where this stuff actually flies?

1 hour ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Of all the people he could have gone after on the Chiefs, he goes after that guy? Anyone know the backstory of it? I watched the entire game but didn’t see anything between Branch/JuJu

 

Beef with Mahomes

Beef with JuJu

 

NFL wants to crack down on taunting because leads to physical altercations. Except when they don't.

 

I hope Detroit starts a GoFundYourself for Branch's fine.

[Bermuda Triangle]

 

[major]

51 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

 

Mark this date- it’s up there with “spygate”. nFL wants them Taylor Swift fans and dollars and must find a way to keep chiefs relevant 

[90sBills]

23 minutes ago, major said:

Mark this date- it’s up there with “spygate”. nFL wants them Taylor Swift fans and dollars and must find a way to keep chiefs relevant 

It’s wrong for the league to enforce a rule? Maybe Detroit’s coaching staff should read up on all the rules. Tony Dungy caught it in pregame when they were practicing it and he’s been out of coaching forever. 

[Livinginthepast]

11 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

 

The essential point is that a flag for this foul CANNOT be thrown after the play, so the refs calling it after or NY buzzing them for a call is completely against the rule. The refs essentially broke the rules to disallow the TD. The question is why? and why so early in the game?

[Billl]

12 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

The essential point is that a flag for this foul CANNOT be thrown after the play, so the refs calling it after or NY buzzing them for a call is completely against the rule. The refs essentially broke the rules to disallow the TD. The question is why? and why so early in the game?

Where did you come up with this notion that refs can’t confer about a penalty?  It happens all the time, particularly when it comes to intentional grounding.  How have we reached the point where we’re crying about referees getting calls 100% correct?  There is a rule written specifically for this situation, the officials enforced it, and somehow that’s evidence of a conspiracy.

[Livinginthepast]

20 minutes ago, Billl said:

Where did you come up with this notion that refs can’t confer about a penalty?  It happens all the time, particularly when it comes to intentional grounding.  How have we reached the point where we’re crying about referees getting calls 100% correct?  There is a rule written specifically for this situation, the officials enforced it, and somehow that’s evidence of a conspiracy.

Who said anything about the refs not being able to confer about a penalty? The rule for this exact type of infringement must be called during the play. Its a live ball foul. Not after the play and certainly not a couple of minutes after the play. Refs often confer about taking away a flag and sometimes they call intentional grounding and throw the flag late after a conference. But for an illegal shift penalty its called right when it happens during the play. I would love to know the number of times an illegal shift has been called with a flag thrown that late. I'm guessing its extremely rare or never happened. Conspiracy? hardly, but a very strange example of officiating that isnt supposed to happen? definitely!

[Billl]

17 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

Who said anything about the refs not being able to confer about a penalty? The rule for this exact type of infringement must be called during the play. Its a live ball foul. Not after the play and certainly not a couple of minutes after the play.

Here’s the rule as written in the rule book:

Item 3. T-Formation Quarterback. It is legal for a T-Formation Quarterback to go in motion, whether he has placed his hands under center, on his knees, or on the body of the center. However, it is a false start if the action is quick and abrupt. If the player fails to come to a complete stop for at least one full second prior to the ball being snapped, it is illegal motion

It is also illegal motion if a T-Formation Quarterback goes in motion and fails to come to a complete stop for at least one full second prior to the snap.

 

There is nothing prohibiting the officials from conferring about whether the QB broke a rule or not any more than there is to prevent them from conferring about intentional grounding, illegal touching, or any other penalty.  The officials got it right.  Just admit that you wanted the Chiefs to get screwed by a missed call.

[Livinginthepast]

9 minutes ago, Billl said:

Here’s the rule as written in the rule book:

Item 3. T-Formation Quarterback. It is legal for a T-Formation Quarterback to go in motion, whether he has placed his hands under center, on his knees, or on the body of the center. However, it is a false start if the action is quick and abrupt. If the player fails to come to a complete stop for at least one full second prior to the ball being snapped, it is illegal motion

It is also illegal motion if a T-Formation Quarterback goes in motion and fails to come to a complete stop for at least one full second prior to the snap.

 

There is nothing prohibiting the officials from conferring about whether the QB broke a rule or not any more than there is to prevent them from conferring about intentional grounding, illegal touching, or any other penalty.  The officials got it right.  Just admit that you wanted the Chiefs to get screwed by a missed call.

Ok since you dont seem to understand the gist of my point despite my repeated explanations:

 

1. I DID NOT say the refs cannot confer about a flag so why are you bringing that up repeatedly? They dont normally confer about THIS penalty (illegal shift) because it NORMALLY gets called during the play because thats when its SUPPOSED to be called. Its a LIVE BALL foul. They would be more likely to confer to cancel a penalty in this instance not to impose one. And how exactly is it in the rules that NY can insist to the field refs that they call a late penalty? Does that seem legit to you?

 

2. I DID NOT say that the refs SHOULD NOT have called the penalty. If the Lions broke the rules (illegal motion) then flag them for a penalty. The reason that many people are upset by this flag coming so late is that it should have been called as soon as the ball was hiked. It also should have been called by multiple officials as it should be obvious. Just like a player in motion towards the LOS. Calling a flag so late for that penalty is at best unprofessional and at worse incompetent officiating.

 

3. You want me to "  Just admit that you wanted the Chiefs to get screwed by a missed call." Huh?? That's a bizarre takeaway from my point especially for someone on a Bills forum. I would just like the Chiefs to be officiated at the same standard as every other team in this league. And right now it doesn't look like they are. 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

Here’s the rule as written in the rule book:

Item 3. T-Formation Quarterback. It is legal for a T-Formation Quarterback to go in motion, whether he has placed his hands under center, on his knees, or on the body of the center. However, it is a false start if the action is quick and abrupt. If the player fails to come to a complete stop for at least one full second prior to the ball being snapped, it is illegal motion

It is also illegal motion if a T-Formation Quarterback goes in motion and fails to come to a complete stop for at least one full second prior to the snap.

 

There is nothing prohibiting the officials from conferring about whether the QB broke a rule or not any more than there is to prevent them from conferring about intentional grounding, illegal touching, or any other penalty.  The officials got it right.  Just admit that you wanted the Chiefs to get screwed by a missed call.

The penalty can be called after the play if the referees arms got Frozen by alaso being thrown around them and paralyzed by Superman's death race there, and then he couldn't throw the flag on time. 

 

It is an illegal formation play which is a penalty before the snap which must occurred during the play itself as it takes action   an illegal formation cannot be before the ball is set, subtle but true 

 

So you could have all your guys line up anyway you want them but it will not matter until you set the ball.  At that point nobody can move except for one person on offense in a parallel line to the line of scrimmage. That person cannot be on the line of scrimmage, nor can they have both of their hands under Center as the rule was originally written. 

 

If such an infringement of that rule exists the play is to be blown dead or the play immediately nullified with whistles at the execution of the the snap of the ball. 

 

It's very nuanced and technical and a football 3001 kind of thing but it's not some super expert level of knowledge although it is remarkable how few people understand this simple rule

47 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

Ok since you dont seem to understand the gist of my point despite my repeated explanations:

 

1. I DID NOT say the refs cannot confer about a flag so why are you bringing that up repeatedly? They dont normally confer about THIS penalty (illegal shift) because it NORMALLY gets called during the play because thats when its SUPPOSED to be called. Its a LIVE BALL foul. They would be more likely to confer to cancel a penalty in this instance not to impose one. And how exactly is it in the rules that NY can insist to the field refs that they call a late penalty? Does that seem legit to you?

 

2. I DID NOT say that the refs SHOULD NOT have called the penalty. If the Lions broke the rules (illegal motion) then flag them for a penalty. The reason that many people are upset by this flag coming so late is that it should have been called as soon as the ball was hiked. It also should have been called by multiple officials as it should be obvious. Just like a player in motion towards the LOS. Calling a flag so late for that penalty is at best unprofessional and at worse incompetent officiating.

 

3. You want me to "  Just admit that you wanted the Chiefs to get screwed by a missed call." Huh?? That's a bizarre takeaway from my point especially for someone on a Bills forum. I would just like the Chiefs to be officiated at the same standard as every other team in this league. And right now it doesn't look like they are. 

It's a funny situation how people don't understand the nuance of the rules.A pre snap penalty is a pre snap penalty.

You either call it or you don't at the snap, it's amateur to wait until after the play is blown dead especially from a touchdown

[Billl]

2 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

Ok since you dont seem to understand the gist of my point despite my repeated explanations:

 

1. I DID NOT say the refs cannot confer about a flag so why are you bringing that up repeatedly? They dont normally confer about THIS penalty (illegal shift) because it NORMALLY gets called during the play because thats when its SUPPOSED to be called. Its a LIVE BALL foul. They would be more likely to confer to cancel a penalty in this instance not to impose one. And how exactly is it in the rules that NY can insist to the field refs that they call a late penalty? Does that seem legit to you?

 

2. I DID NOT say that the refs SHOULD NOT have called the penalty. If the Lions broke the rules (illegal motion) then flag them for a penalty. The reason that many people are upset by this flag coming so late is that it should have been called as soon as the ball was hiked. It also should have been called by multiple officials as it should be obvious. Just like a player in motion towards the LOS. Calling a flag so late for that penalty is at best unprofessional and at worse incompetent officiating.

 

3. You want me to "  Just admit that you wanted the Chiefs to get screwed by a missed call." Huh?? That's a bizarre takeaway from my point especially for someone on a Bills forum. I would just like the Chiefs to be officiated at the same standard as every other team in this league. And right now it doesn't look like they are. 

 

1 hour ago, boyst said:

The penalty can be called after the play if the referees arms got Frozen by alaso being thrown around them and paralyzed by Superman's death race there, and then he couldn't throw the flag on time. 

 

It is an illegal formation play which is a penalty before the snap which must occurred during the play itself as it takes action   an illegal formation cannot be before the ball is set, subtle but true 

 

So you could have all your guys line up anyway you want them but it will not matter until you set the ball.  At that point nobody can move except for one person on offense in a parallel line to the line of scrimmage. That person cannot be on the line of scrimmage, nor can they have both of their hands under Center as the rule was originally written. 

 

If such an infringement of that rule exists the play is to be blown dead or the play immediately nullified with whistles at the execution of the the snap of the ball. 

 

It's very nuanced and technical and a football 3001 kind of thing but it's not some super expert level of knowledge although it is remarkable how few people understand this simple rule

It's a funny situation how people don't understand the nuance of the rules.A pre snap penalty is a pre snap penalty.

You either call it or you don't at the snap, it's amateur to wait until after the play is blown dead especially from a touchdown

So to be clear, you’re upset that the refs didn’t call the penalty timely enough?  If so, I agree.  They should have called it immediately.  They got the call correct, but it would have been better if the flag had been thrown sooner.  That said, the timeliness of the flag had no impact on the outcome of the play, so we can all take comfort in knowing that the call was made in accordance with the rules and that the game was not impacted by the officials nearly letting the Lions have an undeserved TD.

[boyst]

9 minutes ago, Billl said:

 

So to be clear, you’re upset that the refs didn’t call the penalty timely enough?  If so, I agree.  They should have called it immediately.  They got the call correct, but it would have been better if the flag had been thrown sooner.  That said, the timeliness of the flag had no impact on the outcome of the play, so we can all take comfort in knowing that the call was made in accordance with the rules and that the game was not impacted by the officials nearly letting the Lions have an undeserved TD.

not upset, but concerned. just as we were concernd about hte black shirt ref reversing the touchdown in the playoff game against the Texans when the player threw a live ball to the field.

[Doc Brown]

4 hours ago, Billl said:

So to be clear, you’re upset that the refs didn’t call the penalty timely enough?  If so, I agree.  They should have called it immediately.  They got the call correct, but it would have been better if the flag had been thrown sooner.  That said, the timeliness of the flag had no impact on the outcome of the play, so we can all take comfort in knowing that the call was made in accordance with the rules and that the game was not impacted by the officials nearly letting the Lions have an undeserved TD.

The controversy is whether New York assisted the officials in calling the penalty which would be against the rules.  A sky judge can't help with an illegal motion penalty like it can with an intentional grounding penalty.  Campbell claimed he asked an official about why it took so long to call and the ref said they were getting assistance from New York.  The right call was made but New York (sky judge) wasn't allowed to have been involved based on the current rules. 

 

Do I think the NFL is trying to fix games for the Chiefs?  Absolutely not.  Does the NFL need to get its crap together on what can or can't be reviewed by the sky judge on penalties?  YES.

[boyst]

Just now, Doc Brown said:

The controversy is whether New York assisted the officials in calling the penalty which would be against the rules.  A sky judge can't help with an illegal motion penalty like it can with an intentional grounding penalty.  Campbell claimed he asked an official about why it took so long to call and the ref said they were getting assistance from New York.  The right call was made but New York (sky judge) wasn't allowed to have been involved based on the current rules. 

 

Do I think the NFL is trying to fix games for the Chiefs?  Absolutely not.  Does the NFL need to get its crap together on what can or can't be reviewed by the sky judge on penalties?  YES.

The only little bit of nuance wiggle room I could imagine is if they thought this was the case or opened the call up to the NFL office. Only if the on-field refs had a discussion and did this would it be almost justifiable. 

[Doc Brown]

10 minutes ago, boyst said:

The only little bit of nuance wiggle room I could imagine is if they thought this was the case or opened the call up to the NFL office. Only if the on-field refs had a discussion and did this would it be almost justifiable. 

If they got assistance from the sky judge on this play on whether this was an illegal formation then the refs broke the rules.  I'm not sure if they asked for help from New York or they got a buzz in their ear.  If the refs received any assistance from NY the touchdown should've stood even though it was an illegal formation.

Edited 6 hours ago by Doc Brown