Michael Palmer article in SU Paper this morning

[Ray Stonada]

Michael Palmer?

[I Am The Liquor]

36 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

Who's Michael Palmer?

He gets so much separation that he isn't visible on the TV screen, or even the roster! 

[Nihilarian]

Buffalo had some uncharacteristic bad luck against the Patriots, the turnovers, the ref calls, and speaking of the latter, has lead ref Shawn Hochuli ever worked a game in which the Buffalo Bills won? 

 

A truly egregious miss by that crew of Shawn Hoculi’s. After spending an entire game calling close to two dozen flags, none thrown on a third-down incomplete pass to Khalil Shakir, where cornerback Christian Gonzales sure appeared to make early contact. No replay was shown before going to commercial, and nothing was mentioned about the play the rest of the game.

 

This wasn't the sole reason Buffalo lost that game, as it was a sloppy mess, and the Buffalo defense allowed Diggs 12 targets, 10 receptions for 146 yards. The Bills had no answer for Diggs, mostly because their defense is so injury-riddled and not playing up to what they are normally capable of doing. Yes, Tre White looked bad, but so did the rest, except for Cole Bisho, who is looking better. Rapp, Benford, and Teron Johnson were not so good. 

 

Buffalo did manage a decent pass rush with four sacks, along with 8 QB hits. Still, they got away from what they do best in only running Cook 15 times and only throwing 6 times to Kincade, who had 108 yards receiving for those measly receptions. Plus, those Buffalo turnovers really gave NE an edge, and JA didn't play with his usual tenacity.  

 

 

[VW82]

Ave separation per nextgenstats (overall league rank):

 

Shakir - 4.1 yards (7th)

Kincaid - 3.4 yards (32nd)

Keon - 2.9 yards (63rd)

Palmer - 2.2 (100th)

 

 

[Delete_Delete_Delete]

People pumping up Palmer all offseason as some big acquisition was just typical Message Board behavior. Palmer is redundantly the same type of FA WR Beane brings in every year. I’m not sure what people honestly expected. He’s a capable NFL player, but at the end of the day, he’s not moving the needle as a consistent playmaker or somebody that needs to be game planned against by opposing DC’s. I mean it’s not like the Bills were getting a WR like Jakobi Meyers who’s been putting up numbers despite poor QB play throughout his career, Palmer has had the benefit of one of the better passers in the league before Allen, so yeah, expectations that he was going to be a difference maker were just ill conceived from the get go.

 

On the flip side, if he’s getting separation, but not getting the ball, it’s likely bc he’s one of the last reads on most plays. Josh is looking to Shakir, Kincaid, Keon, THEN Palmer, so that’s not going to add up to any significant volume in most games, especially when the team is generally playing with a lead, or not far behind, and remains committed to the run... Only so much ball to go around when “everybody eats”.

Edited 20 hours ago by Delete_Delete_Delete

[starrymessenger]

6 hours ago, ganesh said:

We don't need Palmer running down the line 40-50 yards from scrimmage...We can target him in the 10-20 yard region and likely to see better success.  Currently. those targets are going to Kincaid and Coleman

True. Bills receivers average depth per reception since Josh has been under center is not far off that of the game’s best receivers.

Probably the difference in quality/production is attributable to scheme, targets and YAC (except for Shakir). But although you dont need to run go routes and post patterns all day you do need to be able to credibly run deep routes successfully on occasion IMO so that the risk has to be accounted for by the opposing secondary. Maybe thats a large part of what a Chase, Lamb, Tyreek, Jefferson etc… actually do for you.

Bills passing attack basically takes what the opposition appears to give you. But what seems to be intentionally given can sometimes more easily be taken away (see NE Patriots) so sometimes you need to be able to take what they dont want to give you. Bills dont seem to do much of that.

I dont buy the argument that the problem is Josh’s long ball inaccuracy. He’s thrown many long balls laterally as deep outs and he has shown that he can do so with the necessary arc and touch- witness his game breaking toss to Palmer to beat the Ravens. He just needs to do more of that between the numbers.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

49 minutes ago, Delete_Delete_Delete said:

People pumping up Palmer all offseason as some big acquisition was just typical Message Board behavior. Palmer is redundantly the same type of FA WR Beane brings in every year. I’m not sure what people honestly expected. He’s a capable NFL player, but at the end of the day, he’s not moving the needle as a consistent playmaker or somebody that needs to be game planned against by opposing DC’s.

Palmer is this years Trent Sherfield 

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Palmer is this years Trent Sherfield 

Palmer averages like 600 yards per year 

 

Sherfield doesn't even have a 600 yard season in 8 years lol

 

That's honestly bunk comparison

[LEBills]

18 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Palmer averages like 600 yards per year 

 

Sherfield doesn't even have a 600 yard season in 8 years lol

 

That's honestly bunk comparison

Zay Jones?

[Rock'em Sock'em]

9 hours ago, eSJayDee said:

Is this the article where it says he leads Bills' receivers w/ 0.1 yard separation?  That's like 4 inches!  That # needs to be explained, cuz it can't mean what I, or any lay person thinks it means, cuz as I figure, you'd have a very hard time staying that close, ie that is NO SEPARATION.

I had the same take so I needed to look it up.  ASS (Average Separation Score) is a number that is the average of all the grades for each route run.  A positive score indicates better than average grade on average.  4" of separate would garner a negative score.

[chris heff]

7 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

Who's Michael Palmer?

Josh Palmer’s dad.

[Mike in Horseheads]

1 hour ago, chris heff said:

Josh Palmer’s dad.

 

1 hour ago, chris heff said:

Josh Palmer’s dad.

fake news

[machine gun kelly]

Thanks guys.  I agree with some perspectives here, and others not so much. I asked for thoughts so thank you.  For those that say he’s not open with only .1, that’s a step or two tops.   That’s all an elite QB needs.  I laughed as it’s true high school open is not a thing in the NFL.

 

Enjoy a relaxing football day today guys.  It’s actually nice when we don’t play on Sunday it’s just a fun day.  Since I live in Tampa, I’ll be watching closely the Bucs/49ers.  Jags/Seattle also looks good.

[BillsFooteball]

9 hours ago, Rock'em Sock'em said:

I had the same take so I needed to look it up.  ASS (Average Separation Score) is a number that is the average of all the grades for each route run.  A positive score indicates better than average grade on average.  4" of separate would garner a negative score.

We always have and will continue to need some good ASS (Average Separation Score)

Rachel Bush has earned a game day jersey. 

1 minute ago, machine gun kelly said:

Thanks guys.  I agree with some perspectives here, and others not so much. I asked for thoughts so thank you.  For those that say he’s not open with only .1, that’s a step or two tops.   That’s all an elite QB needs.  I laughed as it’s true high school open is not a thing in the NFL.

 

Enjoy a relaxing football day today guys.  It’s actually nice when we don’t play on Sunday it’s just a fun day.  Since I live in Tampa, I’ll be watching closely the Bucs/49ers.  Jags/Seattle also looks good.

AFC East so laser focused on the saints/pats game. If saints can get the underdog win, all will feel right in world. SNF chiefs/lions should be good one 

[machine gun kelly]

4 minutes ago, BillsFooteball said:

We always have and will continue to need some good ASS (Average Separation Score)

Rachel Bush has earned a game day jersey. 

AFC East so laser focused on the saints/pats game. If saints can get the underdog win, all will feel right in world. SNF chiefs/lions should be good one 

Agreed on the Chiefs/Lions game.  I assumed everyone would be watching that one.  I doubt the Saints can win, but the Cheats will falter in time.

[colin]

I thought Palmer would be a plus addition, and he might still be, but so far he's not much.

 

We'd have been better off keeping hollins.  Familiarity, outside size, and plus blocking for pretty cheap.

 

Separation doesn't mean as much for tight ends because they can post up the body more easily than someone running an outside wr route.

 

I'm convinced we need health on d and to just bully the NFL out of our mutli back and te sets.  Baltimore and new England have had a ton of success in those formations (be back in the day) and if they slow down the run we pass to our te squad, cook, one wr who lines up, or Allen just runs it.  No one is stopping that from 30 over 4 quarters.