Why the Pats stopped the Bills' offense - Allen got antsy and undisciplined (The Athletic)

[DapperCam]

8 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

The problem with your response is I dont recall ever saying Josh didnt take short or underneath routes all game.  If I did thats on me.  If I didnt you're being purposely hyperbolic.    It wasnt an all game issue, but there were multiple instances in the second half where he didnt.    It's not just me and other posters saying it, multiple journalists are saying the same thing.   The Samuel point is likely moot because he was already outside of the pocket when Samuel makes his cut, and the situation doesnt call for him to be risky there.  That said, you focused on that one point instead of discussing the multiple other points I made to your response.    

 

 

Maybe you didn’t say it, but a lot of people are saying Allen had a bad game, when I think he largely played as well as he could have given the circumstances (other than the INT).

[thenorthremembers]

2 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Maybe you didn’t say it, but a lot of people are saying Allen had a bad game, when I think he largely played as well as he could have given the circumstances (other than the INT).

 

I think you just have to look at what they are saying.   My opinion alone is that Brady pretty much handcuffed the offense in the first half.    In the 2nd half, especially the very late 3rd and multiple instances in the 4th quarter Josh decided not to take what the defense was giving him.   This insistence that there has to be an absolute, either you think he was great or you think he was terrible is unfair.   Two things can be true.    Josh had a decent game, true.  By not taking easy throws Josh's game was not as good as it could have been, also true. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

I think you just have to look at what they are saying.   My opinion alone is that Brady pretty much handcuffed the offense in the first half.    In the 2nd half, especially the very late 3rd and multiple instances in the 4th quarter Josh decided not to take what the defense was giving him.   This insistence that there has to be an absolute, either you think he was great or you think he was terrible is unfair.   Two things can be true.    Josh had a decent game, true.  By not taking easy throws Josh's game was not as good as it could have been, also true. 

id encourage you to have another look....i think another rewatch is going to show differently. 

 

ive watched every snap on offense from this game 2x now on the coach's tape and i initially gave Allen a B which I stand by but the more you watch there just wasn't much available. the only actual mistake i can find is the INT. one bad throw over the course of a game shouldn't be the deciding factor but for our offense it kind of is, which again speaks to the incredibly thin margins we require Allen to operate in to be successful.

 

i know you watched it already but if you have the time go back and put it in .25x, pause at the top of his drops when the ball's supposed to come out. the pats were somehow in good looks basically the entire game, there really was not much available that we didn't take

[thenorthremembers]

10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

id encourage you to have another look....i think another rewatch is going to show differently. 

 

ive watched every snap on offense from this game 2x now on the coach's tape and i initially gave Allen a B which I stand by but the more you watch there just wasn't much available. the only actual mistake i can find is the INT. one bad throw over the course of a game shouldn't be the deciding factor but for our offense it kind of is, which again speaks to the incredibly thin margins we require Allen to operate in to be successful.

 

i know you watched it already but if you have the time go back and put it in .25x, pause at the top of his drops when the ball's supposed to come out. the pats were somehow in good looks basically the entire game, there really was not much available that we didn't take

 

I've actually done a little bit of that and I agree with you.  Some of what I originally wrote in my review of the game I see differently looking at it slowed down and not rushing to post a review.   Even going back to our discussion about Cover 2 vs Cover 1 on that one Kincaid route, I see your point, which I believe was around what the look is by definition and what the actual coverage is based on the intent of the play.   The second safety was always going to play man on Kincaid, so it really can only be Cover 1.  

 

I also fully agree on your point about the thin margins.    I still wish he would have stayed in the pocket longer on a few plays but that reaction is likely built in from him having to manifest something.   That said, I hope I never watch another second of All 22 from the Patriots game.   On to the Falcons and hopefully some help at the WR posittion at some point. 

Edited 13 hours ago by thenorthremembers

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

That said, you focused on that one point instead of discussing the multiple other points I made to your response.    

What other points? The wheel route that would have been incomplete and gotten the WR absolutely killed?

[thenorthremembers]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

What other points? The wheel route that would have been incomplete and gotten the WR absolutely killed?

 

Yes our WR Ty Johnson.  That one. 

[Mr. Wonderful]

No legit #1 or #2 WR's on this roster.  No deep threats.  No speed.   Safeties stay short and cover the guys we have   After that we're loaded.   

[Pecker]

9 hours ago, Goin Breakdown said:

I've said this in a few other threads over the week. It's Diggs in joshes head. I truly believe that Josh wants to prove his value to Diggs so much he doesn't focus on his tasks in front of him.

There's like 3 plays in a think of that could have lead to points  if Josh was just more calm and focused. 
 

This was Houston last year. 
 

 

Interesting thought, that never occurred to me.  We will see how the next pats game goes…..

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

I respect The Athletic, but OMG? LOL.

 

This game was still winnable, if, only, Oh we don't know, if the Defense did their job. Y'know, get 3rd down stops. Also, limit opposing RB yards.

 

 

This game was still winnable, if, only, Oh, I don't know, if the offense doesn't have three preventable turnovers.

 

THREE TURNOVERS!!! Josh and Kincaid collide and there's a fumble. I'm still not clear if that was supposed to be a handoff or not. But in any case it was a dumb mistake.

 

Keon just drops the ball after the catch. He's not doing that often. But he did it today.

 

Josh throws into very tight coverage, with two guys on Shakir, and doesn't lead him far enough, allowing the CB to make up that step. Shakir could also have come back towards Allen, cutting off the angle. Just not a good play.

 

More, that INT came on a 2nd and 13 at the Pats 19 yard line, and the play before was an offensive P.I. penalty on Shakir for blocking downfield beyond the one yard threshold before the pass arrived.

 

That P.I. penalty came on a 2nd and 3 at the Pats 9 yard line. That should have been a TD. Two poor plays in a row.

 

 

[Buffalo Ballin]

9 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

This game was still winnable, if, only, Oh, I don't know, if the offense doesn't have three preventable turnovers.

 

THREE TURNOVERS!!! Josh and Kincaid collide and there's a fumble. I'm still not clear if that was supposed to be a handoff or not. But in any case it was a dumb mistake.

 

Keon just drops the ball after the catch. He's not doing that often. But he did it today.

 

Josh throws into very tight coverage, with two guys on Shakir, and doesn't lead him far enough, allowing the CB to make up that step. Shakir could also have come back towards Allen, cutting off the angle. Just not a good play.

 

More, that INT came on a 2nd and 13 at the Pats 19 yard line, and the play before was an offensive P.I. penalty on Shakir for blocking downfield beyond the one yard threshold before the pass arrived.

 

That P.I. penalty came on a 2nd and 3 at the Pats 9 yard line. That should have been a TD. Two poor plays in a row.

 

 

Why you mad? You talking like I'm Josh Allen.

So be it, I'm Josh Allen. Have anything more to say?

 

Sounds like you're one of the members of McDermott Defense Force.

 

My Josh Allen persona:

I'm sorry. Let's hug it out. I'll throw another INT just for you. Just like the Old Days. Sugar High Josh and all that. I kid, I kid. Check this out, our defense is near dead last at stopping the run. Our defense can't get 3rd down stops. Even I know that as I'm adjusting my cap on the sidelines looking into distance as if I'm looking at a void.

Edited 7 hours ago by Buffalo Ballin

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

I think you just have to look at what they are saying.   My opinion alone is that Brady pretty much handcuffed the offense in the first half.    In the 2nd half, especially the very late 3rd and multiple instances in the 4th quarter Josh decided not to take what the defense was giving him.   This insistence that there has to be an absolute, either you think he was great or you think he was terrible is unfair.   Two things can be true.    Josh had a decent game, true.  By not taking easy throws Josh's game was not as good as it could have been, also true. 

 

 

Brady - in the first half - handcuffed the offense into two fumbles without either of them being hit by a defender till after the ball was out. Those fumbles are on Brady, apparently?

 

Five drives in the first half, two of them ended by preventable fumbles.

 

The first punt we have a second and five on the Pats 37,  and on that play an eight yard run and a first down are cancelled due to an illegal formation play. That's Brady's fault? Now it's second and 10. That's followed by two incompletions. That's Brady's fault? Should've been a first down on the 29, but a stupid penalty aborts that.

[thenorthremembers]

Just now, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Brady - in the first half - handcuffed the offense into two fumbles without either of them being hit by a defender till after the ball was out. Those fumbles are on Brady, apparently?

 

Five drives in the first half, two of them ended by preventable fumbles.

 

The first punt we have a second and five on the Pats 37,  and on that play an eight yard run and a first down are cancelled due to an illegal formation play. That's Brady's fault? Now it's second and 10. That's followed by two incompletions. That's Brady's fault? Should've been a first down on the 29, but a stupid penalty aborts that.

 

I dont think I said he causee fumbles.  Watch the All 22 yourself if you want.  He insisted on calling plays that were not well suited for our personnel against that defense.  The formations and personnel had no consistency once so ever.    He was much better in the 2nd half, but he did not put the offense in a good position in the 1st half.   Not for nothing the Bills had the ball back exactly one play after the first fumble.   If you want to tell me the OC was fantastic in the first half when the team scored 3 points be my guest. 

[Thurman#1]

25 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Why you mad? You talking like I'm Josh Allen.

So be it, I'm Josh Allen. Have anything more to say?

 

Sounds like you're one of the members of McDermott Defense Force.

 

My Josh Allen persona:

I'm sorry. Let's hug it out. I'll throw another INT just for you. Just like the Old Days. Sugar High Josh and all that. I kid, I kid. Check this out, our defense is near dead last at stopping the run. Our defense can't get 3rd down stops. Even I know that as I'm adjusting my cap on the sidelines looking into distance as if I'm looking at a void.

 

 

I have no idea what you are talking about here. You are Josh Allen? WTF?

 

To get back to sensible talk, let's look back. You tried to blame this on the defense.

 

And the defense played pretty decently overall. Sure, they could have done better. But they held the Pats to 23. On a day when the Pats got the ball and started drives on the Bills 38 and also the Bills 7. And on those two tremendous opportunities the Bills held them to a total of three points, getting a turnover and holding them to a field goal when they started the drive only seven yards from the end zone.

 

This game was 90% the offense's fault. Not 100%. But mostly. Three turnovers and 20 points scored.

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Thurman#1

[Einstein]

3 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

Yes our WR Ty Johnson.  That one. 

 

You wanted Ty to get laid out?

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

14 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6697771/2025/10/08/how-patriots-took-down-unbeaten-bills/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983&userId=6953080&source=dailyemail

 

(Fodder for @GunnerBill, @HappyDays, and @Kirby Jackson)

 

“New England did a really good job, for the most part, of keeping a roof on stuff, and we’re going to make Josh Allen hold on to the ball or take a lot of the underneath stuff,” Klassen says. “And I think at a certain point he got pretty antsy with that and started making a few mistakes.”

 

Allen’s bad games still look an awful lot like good ones, but New England did push the MVP into working further downfield than he normally does, and forced a red zone interception that kept Buffalo from taking a late third-quarter lead. 

 

Allen has attempted 51 passes of 10 or more air yards through five weeks, and 30 percent of them came Sunday against the Patriots. Part of that was the disastrous run game, but combined with an unsettled Allen, the Bills never seemed to be fully in rhythm. 

 

“It felt a little bit up and down where they rely more on splash plays than this offense typically has,” Mays says. “I just think about how methodical they felt for the most part over the four weeks. They haven’t been that explosive, but they’ve been ruthlessly efficient.”

 

The fallback was to lean on their MVP, which worked, but has a limited ceiling against a disciplined defense. 

 

“Even a lot of the chunk plays they had early, it was Josh Allen making some sort of crazy play outside of the pocket,” Klassen says. “[Like] the flea flicker that they hit down the left side. It was a lot of, ‘Josh Allen, save us!’ or these one or two designer plays.”

 

The Pats also challenged Buffalo’s receivers to beat them one-on-one, playing man coverage nearly 40 percent of the time. That’s always a risk against a quarterback who can run the way Allen can, but New England was able to leverage the Bills’ biggest weakness against them.  

 

“We’ve talked about this for years with the Buffalo Bills,” Klassen says. “They don’t have many we-can-just-beat-you-one-on-one receivers. Challenge them. If you feel (Patriots defensive back) Christian Gonzalez is going to blank this guy 80 percent of the time, OK, then you take the one in five losses that you take. Same with Carlton Davis and all those guys.”

 

 

I've seen it numerous times, Allen gets like that when he's under pressure and can't find anyone open, this group hardly gets separation which was great to see Kincaid finally starting to show life and hopefully can start becoming Allens security blanket (although he's limited in practice go figure). Also why in the world would Joe Brady not use his most speedy weapon on passing downs in James Cook? This guy just got paid why the hell would we not utilize him? He should have design screen plays, bubble screens and put him out wide to open up things a bit, Joe Brady is really looking very unimaginative which is surprising since he had one of the most exciting offenses at LSU.

[BRH]

59 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

Also why in the world would Joe Brady not use his most speedy weapon on passing downs in James Cook? This guy just got paid why the hell would we not utilize him? He should have design screen plays, bubble screens and put him out wide to open up things a bit,.

 

Not saying you yourself were saying this, but a lot of people after last week were saying “we’re using Cook too much, let’s manage his load so we don’t run him into the ground before we really need him.” So Brady tries to do that and we get “where is Cook, we paid him so let’s use him!”