Beans and Sean - Should we miss the SB again

[hondo in seattle]

7 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   How can anyone, even for a second, blame our current plight on lack of offensive production over the last six years?

   In the moment, I understand your observation but can counter it easily with “ jimmies and joes” argument. 
We do not currently have the skill players at receiver. I truly believe our best chance at a downfield passing game is currently (in this order) Kincaid, Hawes and Knox.  This would mean passing more to the center of the field and it has never been something we have done consistently under any OC with Josh.

    A new coach scheming up a new downfield passing attack with this crop of receivers? See above, because it isn’t coming through these wideouts by scheme. Only, by sugar rush Josh running around and making things happen.

 

I understand your argument completely.  Since Brady, in particular, this offense has scored a lot of points.  

 

But when I see Josh scanning the field with nowhere to throw, or when I examine our stats - I think a more brilliant coordinator would get even more points from this offense.  

 

I also, btw, appreciate that (1) Brady doesn't have the most elite WR corps, (2) tends to take what the defense gives him which makes sense, and (3) has given us an offense that produces a lot of points but - normally - not a lot of TOs.  And that last point is a pretty neat trick. For all these reasons, I don't want Brady fired.

 

Yet I believe our downfield passing attack is suboptimal.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I think if Andy Reid or Sean Payton were hired as our passing game coordinator, we'd score more points.  Hiring them is unrealistic, of course, but there are probably a few lesser names who could help Brady dial up a more potent passing attack than what we currently have for those days we need one.

 

And because our defense isn't good, those days are going to happen.

[mjt328]

If the Bills can't at least make the Super Bowl this year, we absolutely have to move on from Sean McDermott.  And I wouldn't be totally opposed to moving on from Brandon Beane too.  

 

Let's be clear.  Any GM/Coach combination in the NFL can win double-digit games, make the playoffs and win a Wild Card game with Josh Allen as the quarterback.  Absolutely bare minimum.  So far, we have had five postseason chances since our QB broke out.  This regime is 2-3 in the Divisional Round and 0-2 in the Championship Game.  

 

To make matters worse (particularly in the case of McDermott), the consistent theme in all five postseason exits has been poor defense... which is supposed to be his specialty.  The most devastating loss (13 seconds) was due to a defensive collapse AND spectacular failure at basic coaching fundamentals.  In the case of Beane, he continues to allocate the vast majority of his resources to the pass rush (both draft picks and cap space) - yet that unit still struggles with consistency, lacks impact playmakers and always disappears in the biggest moments.  

 

The AFC will never be as open for us as we see it right now.  We pulled an extremely easy schedule, while the Chiefs pulled an extremely hard one.  Lamar Jackson and Joe Burrow are both injured, and it's conceivable that both the Ravens and Bengals miss the playoffs.  Everything is setting up for us to get the #1 Seed for the first time, at the same time our top competition is suffering a down/lost year.  

 

The fear with changing regimes is always the chance of going backwards.  But with each passing season, I'm starting to question the value that McDermott/Beane actually bring to the organization.  They did a great job of building the foundation for a franchise that was a mess for nearly two decades.  But they can't seem to figure out the next step.  If we keep spinning our wheels in the same place that literally any other GM/Coach pair could reach, then we really don't have anything to lose.

 

[KentuckyBillsFan]

I'm fully ready to move on from Brandon Beane. He has proven himself to be a very poor early round drafter and it seems like we are straddled with bad contracts every year. The roster badly needs a talent upgrade.

 

I would reluctantly  stay with McDermott IF he completely gives up on controlling the defense, brings in a legit DC (not someone who is his puppet like Babich) and just focuses on head coaching duties. This will never happen though.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What beats Brady and Mahomes is rushing four. Not blitzing. You have to be able to get there with four. If you can't you are done for. Whether than is Spags in the 09 Superbowl vs Brady or Fangio in last year's v Mahomes. Rex was a blitz, blitz and blitz again merchant who by the middle of the last decade was out of touch and put of ideas. 

 

The Bills are blitzing more this year. How is that working out for them? The "just blitz more" crowd need to get off Madden and come into the real world. 

 

There legitmate reasons to be critical of McDermott by the way - the defense has got significantly worse since he helped nudge Leslie Frazier out, the Bills have this annoying tendency in years where the 1 seed is in play to lose stupid games to inferior teams, he hasn't been able to get to a Superbowl and to the extent he is involved in roster building (and that is really Brandon Beane but I believe they are totally aligned on the vision even though the individual choices are Beane's) they have not built the roster the way I would have advocated for. At this stage Sean (and Brandon) should be evaluated year on year in terms of have they maximised what was available to them. All of that is legitimate.

 

But Rex Ryan winning a Superbowl in this decade? Nah. That isn't legtimate. That's a joke. I understand people being frustrated but seriously it is boiling some people's brains.

Agree with most you say. But, you never know when the pendulum will swing back the other way. I know this Bills team personnel wise is lacking as far as athleticism and they likely won't be the ones to break the mold.

[Gregg]

6 minutes ago, KentuckyBillsFan said:

I'm fully ready to move on from Brandon Beane. He has proven himself to be a very poor early round drafter and it seems like we are straddled with bad contracts every year. The roster badly needs a talent upgrade.

 

I would reluctantly  stay with McDermott IF he completely gives up on controlling the defense, brings in a legit DC (not someone who is his puppet like Babich) and just focuses on head coaching duties. This will never happen though.

 

If you move on from Beane then the new incoming GM may want to move on from McDermott and bring in his own coach.

[BuffaloMatt]

2020 - 13-3

2021 -  11-6

2022 - 13-3

2023 - 11-6

2024 - 13-4

Coupled with 5 division titles. Yeah they're getting fired (sarcasm for the limited few reading this). The NFL is big business and this team is extremely profitable as the product being put on the field is top notch. Pegula is not going to tip the apple cart. There is a reason he is a billionaire. 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

If you move on from Beane then the new incoming GM may want to move on from McDermott and bring in his own coach.

 

This is very true. There are a lot of people here who would be willing to move on from Beane as the cost for moving on from McDermott. I think by the end of this season I may well be in the opposite camp. I haven't been in favour of firing either of them to this point, but with the 12 major moves Beane made in the spring/summer looking (other than Cook) questionable at best I'm starting to lean towards you have to move on from Beane and if the cost is you move on from McDermott too then so be it. 

Edited 3 hours ago by GunnerBill

[jwhit34]

So for all that want them to make a change:

 

1. Give us the names of 3 people who are or would be available that would be a head coaching upgrade over Sean McDermott.

 

2. Give us the names of 3 people who are or would be available that would be a GM upgrade over Brandon Beane.

 

Any highly successful, well entrenched coaches or GMs are not an acceptable answer (so no Andy Reid, Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, Dan Campbell, Howie Roseman, Brian Gutekunst, Brett Veech, to name a few).

 

 

[Casey D]

2 hours ago, uticaclub said:

Management gave him time because we got to a Super Bowl right away & then didn’t have a real QB for years. It’s a completely different situation. McDermott’s comparison should be Schottenheimer, not Cowher.

If you like.  They still are not going anywhere no matter how much you wish upon a star.

[uticaclub]

15 minutes ago, Casey D said:

If you like.  They still are not going anywhere no matter how much you wish upon a star.

If you want them to stay and hope they finally make it, they might, but there are no historical examples of anyone reaching their first Super Bowl after this much time with the same team. Someone has to be the first to do it.

[Casey D]

31 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

If you want them to stay and hope they finally make it, they might, but there are no historical examples of anyone reaching their first Super Bowl after this much time with the same team. Someone has to be the first to do it.

What I want or you want is irrelevant.  I don't think these guys are going anywhere in the near future and a vocal group of fans wanting them fired is not going to do anything.  I could be wrong.  But I doubt it.  This front office and coaching staff are very very good by any objective viewpoint, particularly for a team that was in the wilderness for two decades. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Casey D

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

If the Bills can't at least make the Super Bowl this year, we absolutely have to move on from Sean McDermott.  And I wouldn't be totally opposed to moving on from Brandon Beane too.  

 

Let's be clear.  Any GM/Coach combination in the NFL can win double-digit games, make the playoffs and win a Wild Card game with Josh Allen as the quarterback.  Absolutely bare minimum.  So far, we have had five postseason chances since our QB broke out.  This regime is 2-3 in the Divisional Round and 0-2 in the Championship Game.  

 

To make matters worse (particularly in the case of McDermott), the consistent theme in all five postseason exits has been poor defense... which is supposed to be his specialty.  The most devastating loss (13 seconds) was due to a defensive collapse AND spectacular failure at basic coaching fundamentals.  In the case of Beane, he continues to allocate the vast majority of his resources to the pass rush (both draft picks and cap space) - yet that unit still struggles with consistency, lacks impact playmakers and always disappears in the biggest moments.  

 

The AFC will never be as open for us as we see it right now.  We pulled an extremely easy schedule, while the Chiefs pulled an extremely hard one.  Lamar Jackson and Joe Burrow are both injured, and it's conceivable that both the Ravens and Bengals miss the playoffs.  Everything is setting up for us to get the #1 Seed for the first time, at the same time our top competition is suffering a down/lost year.  

 

The fear with changing regimes is always the chance of going backwards.  But with each passing season, I'm starting to question the value that McDermott/Beane actually bring to the organization.  They did a great job of building the foundation for a franchise that was a mess for nearly two decades.  But they can't seem to figure out the next step.  If we keep spinning our wheels in the same place that literally any other GM/Coach pair could reach, then we really don't have anything to lose.

 

 

Out of curiosity, do you think we have the best roster in the AFC?  If not, why would you fire your coach if we don't reach the SB?  

 

Have we ever had the best roster in the AFC? And I mean the guys who suited up, not guys on IR or suspended. 

 

You and I probably evaluate the talent on the team differently because since McD arrived, I've never thought Beane gave him a Lombardi-quality squad to work with.  If we want McD to win a SB, we're asking him to overperform with what he's been given.   

[Nihilarian]

Do so many Bills fans forget that this team is currently 4-1 and at the top of the AFC with Jacksonville and Indy? Daniel Jones, really?

 

The bleating endlessly about changing the GM/HC because the team hasn't made it to a Super Bowl or won one with Joah Allen. Allow me to give some insight, as #17 is not perfect 

 

Josh Allen scrambled out of the pocket on the final scoring drive against the New England Patriots in a recent game, missing a wide-open Curtis Samuel as he anticipated pressure that didn't materialize, instead forcing a pass that was almost intercepted. The play design would have worked if Allen had stayed in the pocket, but his premature scramble negated the opportunity, resulting in a late and hurried throw to a different receiver. 

 

Samuel's Opportunity: While Allen was scrambling, a wide-open Curtis Samuel was running toward the opposite side of the field, creating a potentially easy touchdown.

 

STUFF HAPPENS!

 

So many fans seem to forget that the 2024 Buffalo Bills were the highest scoring offense in the league, playoffs included. The Bills made it to the AFC Championship game only to be screwed by the refs in spotting the ball ...not inches off target ...but feet. So much so that the NFL has now changed how it makes controversial spots.

 

Now, in this last game, the lead ref is Shawn Hoculi, and he has a thing against the Buffalo Bills, it seems. 

 

 

[Steptide]

9 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Which would make Sean a figurehead. No way is he ceding control of the D to an outsider with a different scheme! Zero percent chance!

I agree, but he's the one always talking about being humble and looking at yourself in the mirror and tough conversations etc. Practice what you preach 

[Doc Brown]

8 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

That wasn’t even the AFCC game. A lot of people assume we would have gotten to the SB, including me at one point. With the benefit of hindsight, I tend not to think so. 
So, I’m not saying we win a SB. But I firmly believe we make the AFCC, in that moment, with Rex. And that, Bill, is sad imo.

We went 11-6 that year with a defense that finished number ONE in points allowed, yards, and 3rd down defense.  That was a Sean McDermott coach defense that often bailed the offense out.  We don't make it to that point with Rex Ryan's defense.  I'm sorry.  Once the league caught up to his defense he got really stubborn and never adjusted because of his stubbornness/arrogance.  That's why he's sitting in an ESPN studio right now publicly begging for a job.

[colin]

so, i think we have 90-95% of what we need, and have had that for at least 3 out of the past 6 seasons.  that last little bit we need can be had via a very good few moves/decisions.

 

the 13 seconds coaching issue, the not forcing kc to punt w aj klien hobbling at lb while dumb but talented rook williams was on the bench (who led us to a punt, our only forced one of the day), and lately the refusal to line up on O with our clear and present maximum advantage (tight ends and backs, and mixing up passing and running with that personnel grouping, 0, 1, or 2 wrs) vs the pats when ish was hitting the fan just lowers my confidence that we will find the answer when we need it most.

 

as far as the d goes, im a mcd hater, but honestly this is the nfl now.  teams start at what, their own 32 on average?  that's 35 yards from FG range for like 15 NFL teams.  one single big play means points in today's NFL, so everyone is deep shell and nickel as a base D (as opposed to Base D, w 3 or 4 LBs depending on 4 or 3 DL).  short efficient passes and running with misdirection and a rotation of running backs is the standard everywhere.  denver cinci and minni are the only teams who seem to want to push the ball deep today, philly sometimes but their o is a disaster.  from this POV, mcd is a leader in how the Ds of the nfl are coached, so i can kinda see keeping him.  we are short ed oliver, hoyt, african anabol (never remeber his name), two LBs, rookie TJ, and our only fast corner on D.  we have a pretty great pressure rate and a reasonable sack rate, along w some usually weak run and 3rd down d, but i think we do have something to work with.

 

it's not fair, but the nfl never is.  mcd is going to be a shottenhiemer joke or an all timer based on if he can win a chip in basically 25 or the 26 season.  based on that i'm basically 50/50 on blowing it all up for a new FO or rolling with what we have and hoping to find that next 5-10% to win it all.  looking back, the house shoulda been cleaned after 13 seconds, i think we'd have won one by now with about 5 or 6 different front offices, and we'd have had our pick that season.