The final play to Shakir. Samuel was wide open for easy TD

[corta765]

5 hours ago, Brand J said:

Josh didn’t have the laser-like focus last night. Still made plays to win the game, but Drake made more. Pats deserved the win.

The moment the Coleman fumble happened you could see he was off his face read it. They already fumbled and blew decent field position on the Knox sweep and by that point the penalties were coming fast and furious. Then they fumble giving the Pats at least 3 pts for nothing and yea he looked off. I have said the offense in general was the first time all year I felt they were behind the the Pats defense all evening in terms of tempo and dictating play. I never felt they were comfortable and with the errors & chasing the score they seemed to press. Even the Ravens comeback it felt like points and opportunity was there to the way they wanted to do it.

 

For whatever reason Josh against the Pats has been very up and down his entire career outside of the Perfect Game and those two away games in 2020/21. Maybe it is the divisional element or just personnel wise they match up pretty well, but where the Phins he torches them and the Jets he usually is solid the Pats for a while now have been a bugaboo of sorts.

[oldmanfan]

18 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

It feels like I've seen a ton of posts saying how badly he played, coming from posters who haven't really commented on anything else.

I've been just taking it as a sign of how spoiled we've become.

Absolutely

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Absolutely not. That is an INT all day long and twice on Sunday if Allen throws at that point. The safety had plenty of time as did the up DB.

 

Samuel becomes wide open as Allen moves to his right and the defense shifts to the right to follow him.

 

 

Sorry that is simply not true.  If the ball is out in front and to the outside, not only can the S not close on time, the only way to intercept would be to go through Samuel unless Allen threw a bad ball.  To say its a sure INT is just flat out incorrect.  What you and some others are conveniently doing is taking an early screen shot BEFORE Samuel makes his break, which happens in a fraction of a second after Allen bails on the pocket.  You are using that screen shot because it reduces the info to be able to paint a bias instead of the video that clearly shows Allen has a clean shot and and a clean pocket had he not bailed.  

 

And NO Samuel is not open because Allen bailed, the safety STAYED with Samuel, he did NOT come off him to let him get open, Samuel was flat out open had Allen just stood in the pocket on the drop back and fired.  

 

No offense, you can say its an INT as much as you want, it doesn't make it true and QBs with lesser arms complete this same throw every week in the NFL.  

[Einstein]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Sorry that is simply not true. 

It is. Which is why Allen did not throw it. 

You can try to word-soup it away, but its an INT waiting to happen if he throws that when you wanted it thrown. He only appears only because he scrambled and the defense shifted.

Its also funny watching the people upset at him for throwing "home run" balls, now wanted him to throw an ultra risky endzone pass. 

[Murdox]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

Now this I totally agree with; I thought their DT's did a great job of taking away those lanes where he likes to bolt for key pickups.

 

Watching it again, it was clear to me that Vrabel was going to frequently bring a safety up into the box as a pseudo-spy on Allen.  So often the Pats' defense lined up with that one safety deep.  Reminded me of the old Bears 46 defense.  I blame a lot of that on our offensive gameplan and our lack of talent/speed at receiver.  Vrabel played the odds and dared us to come up with something deep.  He's watched the tape as well and seen how Josh tends to live with the short-intermediate passes in this offensive scheme so far this season. A lot of our passing yards seem to come after the catch.  Putting another body in the box is a great way to stop both our run game AND Allen.

Edited 1 hour ago by Murdox

[Simon]

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

It is. Which is why Allen did not throw it. 

You can try to word-soup it away, but its an INT waiting to happen if he throws that when you wanted it thrown. He only appears only because he scrambled and the defense shifted.

 

The fact that the safety kept his hips set to attack that route the second Allen racked the shell, and then didn't come off it until very late has me thinking you are correct.

There was probably a window if Samuel cuts the route off because the 'backer didn't get a deep enough drop, but Samuel didn't. As it was, it was probably a dangerous throw when all they need was a first down.

 

2 minutes ago, Murdox said:

 

Watching it again, it was clear to me that Vrabel was going to frequently bring a safety up into the box as a pseudo-spy on Allen.  So often the Pats' defense lined up with that one safety deep.  Reminded me of the old Bears 46 defense.  I blame a lot of that on our offensive gameplan and our lack of talent at receiver.  Vrabel played the odds and dared us to come up with something deep.  He's watched the tape as well and seen how Josh tends to live with the short-intermediate passes in this offensive scheme so far this season.  Putting another body in the box is a great way to stop both our run game AND Allen.

 

I did not think they spent much time bring extra bodies into the box; at least one person at the game, who I know has great eyes, confirmed the Pats were running a 2 high shell almost all night long.

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

He played a poor game. I don't see how anyone watching could believe otherwise besides fans who have their rose colored glasses on with everything Josh Allen related.

I'll address your accusation that some of us fans view Allen through rose colored glasses.  But first other then your and others strange dislike of Allen there is no objective criteria that would support Allen having a poor game yesterday.  He was good but not great.  As others have said we saw Allen's B game against the Pats.

 

Now onto your point.  I have been a passionate Bills fan for over 60 years.  And it's been my privilege to have been able to root for only 2 HOF QB's in all that time - Jim Kelly & Josh Allen.  Allen is the reason the Bills have been legit SB contenders over the last 6 seasons.  He is the reason Buffalo escaped 20 years of miserable football purgatory.  On top of all that Allen is fun to watch and his effort has never flagged.   

 

For these reasons alone I deeply appreciate what Allen has meant to the Bills franchise & fan base. If ever a Bills player deserved the benefit of doubt Allen is that player.  

 

So I will never apologize for defending the greatest QB in Bills history from nit picking & snide remarks.  There have been a couple of bad games by Allen over the years but last night was not one of them and it's not viewing his performance through rose colored glasses to say that.

 

 

 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, Einstein said:

It is. Which is why Allen did not throw it. 

You can try to word-soup it away, but its an INT waiting to happen if he throws that when you wanted it thrown. He only appears only because he scrambled and the defense shifted.

Its also funny watching the people upset at him for throwing "home run" balls, now wanted him to throw an ultra risky endzone pass. 

 

Also completely untrue.  Allen didnt throw it because he bailed on a clean pocket before setting his feet to make a throw.  Literally every explanation you have given is factually disprovable on film.  

[Murdox]

6 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

The fact that the safety kept his hips set to attack that route the second Allen racked the shell, and then didn't come off it until very late has me thinking you are correct.

There was probably a window if Samuel cuts the route off because the 'backer didn't get a deep enough drop, but Samuel didn't. As it was, it was probably a dangerous throw when all they need was a first down.

 

 

I did not think they spent much time bring extra bodies into the box; at least one person at the game, who I know has great eyes, confirmed the Pats were running a 2 high shell almost all night long.

 

I can only say what I just saw, and I'm looking now?  Maybe it's a question of definition?  I am seeing a one safety back alignment on numerous plays - mostly on first and/or second down.  That's not to say the safety doesn't retreat sometimes back after the snap.  it really is like we are looking at different games entirely.  So odd.

Edited 1 hour ago by Murdox

[Simon]

2 minutes ago, Murdox said:

That's not to say the safety doesn't retreat sometimes back after the snap. 

 

A safety showing false pressure then dropping into a shell, is a shell.

[Allen2Moulds]

I haven't seen it discussed very much, but we flat out got bullied. I don't remember the last time James and Josh got blasted that many times in a game. I know some came after the whistle, but most were good clean hits. 

In the pregame they said that the Pats defense is very big and physical. It clearly showed.

[Low Positive]

7 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I'll address your accusation that some of us fans view Allen through rose colored glasses.  But first other then your and others strange dislike of Allen there is no objective criteria that would support Allen having a poor game yesterday.  He was good but not great.  As others have said we saw Allen's B game against the Pats.

 

Now onto your point.  I have been a passionate Bills fan for over 60 years.  And it's been my privilege to have been able to root for only 2 HOF QB's in all that time - Jim Kelly & Josh Allen.  Allen is the reason the Bills have been legit SB contenders over the last 6 seasons.  He is the reason Buffalo escaped 20 years of miserable football purgatory.  On top of all that Allen is fun to watch and his effort has never flagged.   

 

For these reasons alone I deeply appreciate what Allen has meant to the Bills franchise & fan base. If ever a Bills player deserved the benefit of doubt Allen is that player.  

 

So I will never apologize for defending the greatest QB in Bills history from nit picking & snide remarks.  There have been a couple of bad games by Allen over the years but last night was not one of them and it's not viewing his performance through rose colored glasses to say that.

 

 

 

 

 

Normally I agree with you, you he just cannot throw this ball.

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I'll address your accusation that some of us fans view Allen through rose colored glasses.  But first other then your and others strange dislike of Allen there is no objective criteria that would support Allen having a poor game yesterday.  He was good but not great.  As others have said we saw Allen's B game against the Pats.

 

Now onto your point.  I have been a passionate Bills fan for over 60 years.  And it's been my privilege to have been able to root for only 2 HOF QB's in all that time - Jim Kelly & Josh Allen.  Allen is the reason the Bills have been legit SB contenders over the last 6 seasons.  He is the reason Buffalo escaped 20 years of miserable football purgatory.  On top of all that Allen is fun to watch and his effort has never flagged.   

 

For these reasons alone I deeply appreciate what Allen has meant to the Bills franchise & fan base. If ever a Bills player deserved the benefit of doubt Allen is that player.  

 

So I will never apologize for defending the greatest QB in Bills history from nit picking & snide remarks.  There have been a couple of bad games by Allen over the years but last night was not one of them and it's not viewing his performance through rose colored glasses to say that.

 

 

 

 

 

Sixty sixth year for me.  This is helpful; indicating your lack of objectivity with respect to Josh helps me understand your posts more.  He had a B game, but as my dad would say if I got a B on my report card:  you are capable of A’s so I expect A’s.  
 

Of course we had too many guys that had C and D games as well.

[Murdox]

3 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

A safety showing false pressure then dropping into a shell, is a shell.

 

Well then, I saw that quite a bit.  It worked.

[CincyBillsFan]

4 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Just stop. For God sakes.  We all love Josh.  To me is the best QB in the league.  But it is not blasphemy to say he did not have his best game last night.  And I will say again that outside of Kincaid I don’t know that anyone did. But it is not blasphemy to say that Josh had some plays he’d like back, particularly the pick.  It doesn’t mean we thought he sucked.  It doesn’t mean anyone here is blaming him for the loss.  Just that, like many of his teammates, he could have done a little better. Perhaps you and others shouldn’t be so sensitive about this.

I don't know but I've seen multiple posters say that Allen "played like crap" or that he "played bad" or that he "played poorly".  And for the record there are posts blaming Allen for the loss.

 

Not sure why you're getting so upset here?  I wasn't aiming this at your posts but at a collection of posts in this and other threads. 

 

And why is it that some of you get upset at those of us who push back at what we see as unfair criticism of Allen?  After all this is a Bills message forum and we're all Bills fans who "love Josh" right? 

 

 

 

 

[T master]

7 hours ago, MikePJ76 said:

So yes, Shakir was interfered with as you can see in the image...he is hit the ball is not there yet.....But If Allen just stayed in the pocked he had a simple throw for an easy 30 yard TD to Curtis Samuel.  Not sure why Josh bailed on good protection.  

 

Shakir was 100% hit early and also as you can see in the other image Allen was hit in the head after the throw.  Everything was called in this game and they let these go for some reason.  There is simply no explanation for it.  

 

TO Be Clear the second picture the ball in front of shakir was on its way to him not bouncing off.  It was as obvious as it gets that it was PI why the whistle was swallowed who knows?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It almost looks as if Josh was looking for that BIG PLAY instead of taking what was there, he had multiple players open on many of those plays and he decided to pull it down to try and make a bigger play . 

 

I saw the play where Samuel was wide open and that would have sealed the game Josh got to nervous I guess from the pressure through out the game and didn't see him .

 

All the haters are calling their usual especially in the "Who would you rather have now" Post about getting rid of McD but as I have always said and the pictures you put up an the video proves McD can't make the players see the WIDE OPEN WR or make Josh see it .

 

You can call the best game from the scheme on paper that you have but if the players don't execute or make the mistake of not seeing the entire field like Josh did on a couple of those plays then it's not on the coach it''s on the players !!! 

 

So thank you for putting those pictures up even though it won't change the thoughts of the haters here it's proof that the players need to be held as responsible or more so for the loses as the coach !!

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Sixty sixth year for me.  This is helpful; indicating your lack of objectivity with respect to Josh helps me understand your posts more.  He had a B game, but as my dad would say if I got a B on my report card:  you are capable of A’s so I expect A’s.  
 

Of course we had too many guys that had C and D games as well.

I am being objective here.  My dad was fine with me getting an occasional B in Calculus or Organic Chemistry. 

 

IMO QB is the toughest position to play in team sports and expecting Allen to get an A in every game is unrealistic. In fact it's evidence of a lack of objectivity and grossly distorted expectations.  But that's just my opinion.

 

When I watch a game where Kincaid gets an A, Allen earns a B and a lot of the other players get a C or D I don't have a lot of patience with those that call out Allen after the game. Even if they're factually correct in saying that if only Allen had done this instead of that on a couple of plays the Bills would have won I can't help but think of that old Biblical verse:  "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, T master said:

 

I saw the play where Samuel was wide open and that would have sealed the game Josh got to nervous I guess from the pressure through out the game and didn't see him .

 

Sealed the game?  With more then 2 minutes left, NE with 3 TO's and against the Bills defense?  The Pats had scored TD's on 2 of their 3 2nd half drives so the odds they would have been in the Bills red zone with a minute or more to play were pretty good.  

[Einstein]

24 minutes ago, Simon said:

safety kept his hips set to attack that route the second Allen racked the shell, and then didn't come off it until very late has me thinking you are correct.

Word for word my thought pattern watching that.
 

He was baiting.

[GoBills808]

16 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

Normally I agree with you, you he just cannot throw this ball.

decision is ok imo

 

just a bad ball, needs to be low and away

[T master]

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I am being objective here.  My dad was fine with me getting an occasional B in Calculus or Organic Chemistry. 

 

IMO QB is the toughest position to play in team sports and expecting Allen to get an A in every game is unrealistic. In fact it's evidence of a lack of objectivity and grossly distorted expectations.  But that's just my opinion.

 

When I watch a game where Kincaid gets an A, Allen earns a B and a lot of the other players get a C or D I don't have a lot of patience with those that call out Allen after the game. Even if they're factually correct in saying that if only Allen had done this instead of that on a couple of plays the Bills would have won I can't help but think of that old Biblical verse:  "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sealed the game?  With more then 2 minutes left, NE with 3 TO's and against the Bills defense?  The Pats had scored TD's on 2 of their 3 2nd half drives so the odds they would have been in the Bills red zone with a minute or more to play were pretty good.  

Well it ended up 23 to 20, if he would have scored on that play I know I'm no mathematician but that would have put the end score at Bills 27 Pats 23, so in theory it would have sealed the game unless calculous is much different than addition & subtraction ?? 

 

And at the least if they would not have kicked the field goal and went for the TD it would have been tied and went into OT so I guess you are right in some way !