NOW is Bobby Babich's seat hot?

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

So far 17th in points given up but 31st (almost 32nd) in run defense is a complete embarrassment. I've never seen a teams fan base make more excuses to where we're at.  Injuries, suspensions, rookies, etc....We've never had a dominating defense in the McD era. We've never had a game wrecker in his tenure. I blame Sean and Brandon for not doing a better job of finding defensive talent.  Come playoff time, Josh will have to do what he's always had to do.  Outscore your opponent.....

 

while I totally agree with the assessment of where we are now the people who keep saying "the defense has never been good" and "it's the same every year" really do have short memories. Leslie Frazier had three top 3 ranked defenses and one other top 10 defense in six seasons here. They are consistently top 10 in the league in takeaways (ever season of McDermott) and under Frazier they were top ten on 3rd down 5 out of 6 years too. Sure, the defense never dominated in the playoffs, that is undeniable. But the Bills had a number of really good defenses under Leslie and I think fans have simply forgotten how good we had it. The current defense is a mess. 

4 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Do you think our front would appear more aggressive if it were more talented?  In other words, is this a Beane failing or a McD failing?

Or do you think Babich should call more blitzes, with the risks that involves?  And considering we're giving up the fewest passing yards in the league, how much do we really need to worry about having an aggressive front four?  

It seems to me our main defensive problem is that we can't stop the run.  And, for that, I blame both McD and Beane.

 

McD likes to run nickel or dime something like 70 or 80% of the time.  He's making a tactical decision to defend the pass first and makes defending the run a secondary priority.  On top of that, missed assignments and tackles have been problems.  

 

Beane hasn't been getting us a lot of talent on the defensive side of the ball.  It doesn't help that our two of our three best players - Milano and Oliver - are hurt.  But even with them we have exactly zero All-Pro quality defenders.  McD's scheme would work better if he had better players.  

 

We are already blitzing way more than normal. After week 3 we were second in the league for blitz %. It doesn't look pretty. We should be blitzing way less. 

[Matt_In_NH]

16 hours ago, jethro_tull said:

League rank of 31st , 25th and 30th against run yards, rushing touchdowns and yards per rush attempt are glaring issues that we are winning despite of.  

If the team could improve on those issues we would be a dynasty.  

Equally troubling is that these issues are nothing new......

Last year they were 13 22 and 14 in those…

[Pete]

The back 7 was very confused, and often out of position, against the Saints.  Youth and inexperience is partly to blame.  That is correctable, and that’s on Babich and the coaches to correct that.  Let’s see if D is better buttoned up against the Pats.  If that does not improve by end of season, that’s on Bobby imo 

[DCofNC]

Same story, different year.  I don’t know why it’s hard to see where the issue lies.  This is a top down problem, yet they fire the middlemen.

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

while I totally agree with the assessment of where we are now the people who keep saying "the defense has never been good" and "it's the same every year" really do have short memories. Leslie Frazier had three top 3 ranked defenses and one other top 10 defense in six seasons here. They are consistently top 10 in the league in takeaways (ever season of McDermott) and under Frazier they were top ten on 3rd down 5 out of 6 years too. Sure, the defense never dominated in the playoffs, that is undeniable. But the Bills had a number of really good defenses under Leslie and I think fans have simply forgotten how good we had it. The current defense is a mess. 

 

We are already blitzing way more than normal. After week 3 we were second in the league for blitz %. It doesn't look pretty. We should be blitzing way less. 

The real issue with this defense has been in the playoffs.  They come up short. 

 

In the Playoffs, you play the best QBs in the league (with a few exceptions) and for that the Defense has to show up.   They need pass rush,  stopping the run and have takeaways.   If the defense can provide any of these at critical moments then we usually win (Baltimore twice comes to mind).  

 

This year, the team is likely to meet top QBs in Mahomes, Lamar, Herbert in the playoffs and they need to win at least two of them.

The defense has to step up in the Playoffs for the Bills to have a chance to win the Superbowl.

Edited Wednesday at 10:51 AM by ganesh

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, ganesh said:

The real issue with this defense has been in the playoffs.  They come up short. 

 

In the Playoffs, you play the best QBs in the league (with a few exceptions) and for that the Defense has to show up.   They need pass rush,  stopping the run and have takeaways.   If the defense can provide any of these at critical moments then we usually win (Baltimore twice comes to mind).  

 

This year, the team is likely to meet top QBs in Mahomes, Lamar, Herbert in the playoffs and they need to win at least two of them.

The defense has to step up in the Playoffs for the Bills to have a chance to win the Superbowl.

 

Of course. That is not in dispute. But people are talking like the defense has always sucked and has never been good. People are saying that in this thread. And I'm afraid for as bad as the current defense is and looks that is simply not true. 

[Nihilarian]

Lies, damned Lies, and Statistics! 

 

Bills fans have been looking at the stats for the Buffalo run defense, and it's really not good at 31st in yards allowed, 25th in TDs allowed, and 30th in rushing yards per attempt. I get it, as Bills fans are upset about how bad the Buffalo defense looks at times. 

 

Let's take a long, hard look at some games. Against the Ravens, the Bills stopped that vaunted Baltimore run game in the 4th quarter when it mattered most and forced a turnover from the "King" RB that had been running through them like a sieve for most of the game. Buffalo's defense stopped them a few times in that 4th quarter and allowed the offense to make a comeback to win. 25 to 40 was it?

 

Want stats? The NY Jets had 54 net yards passing, and the ToP was 38:21 to 21:39. This game was in MetLife Stadium, too. They got a garbage-time TD by the backup QB Tyrod Taylor. 

 

Against Miami, as the Dolphins were driving to even the score in the 4th quarter and Terrel Bernard intercepts a pass at the Buffalo 17, and the Dolphins' comeback is over. 

 

Then, against the Saints, Buffalo DB Cole Bishop intercepts a pass by NO QB Rattler near the end of the second quarter. Then the last two drives by the Saints ended on downs with Tre White making the stopping tackle short of the first down. Then the Saints' last drive ended with a sack by AJ Epenesa and another sack, which caused a fumble by Joey Bosa. 

 

Yes, the Buffalo Bills defense should be as dominant as their offense...sadly, they are not due to missing some key players due to injuries and some others due to inexperience. Yes, the Buffalo defense has looked bad at times, with players missing tackles, assignments, and having bad gap integrity at times. Then they step up when needed to step up. 

 

What I can say is I think all is not lost, as some injured players will return, and some on suspension will return. Along with some who have limited playing experience, they will step up to make this year's defensive unit a top ten or better. Give Babich time to work his stuff, and if he doesn't...he won't be around for very long.

[Mister Defense]

19 hours ago, mbs said:

As for perception, yes they miss tackles and have players out of place. It's painful. But they will get starters back and it is 100% reasonable to expect the young players to get more disciplined and for the defense to improve until six or eight of them get hurt in January.

 

 

 

The problem I see with what you say above, and why I basically wrote the OP, is that this is how they looked last year, undisciplined, out of place, missing tackles--and then, it is the same this year.  Where is the progression? There seems to be regression instead. Unacceptable, I think, for McDermottt and Beane.  We will see.

 

If there is not progress, and we see the same things over and over, game after game, pretty consistently, over last year, and then in the first 1/4 of this year it looks the same, with the same awful stats, overall, and same look and feel, it does not relate almost at all to a few missed players. It doesn't make sense, add up.

 

Instead, it appears to be how they are being prepared during the week, the game plan, and game call--the coach things.

 

Look at Dorsey-- there were fundamental problems, and things did not improve, looked the same--even in the pre season I was sounding the alarm, as the starters looked wildly unprepared in their first game.

 

That summer, and on here, I began to again hit on that as a huge red flag that this offense was not being led correctly, in fact incompetently--dorsey did not know what he was doing, and seemingly did not work hard in the off season to learn what he needed to know.  He made a fool of himself, undermining one of the best offenses in the game more and more with each passing week.

 

And we saw the results then that next season, just as I had predicted.  It wasn't rocket science to add up the actual regression of the offense the previous year, what we saw that summer, and then the shocking start of the season when our high powered offense looked like a shell of itself, inept, confused, bewildered--even seen on the face and body language of Allen--and come to the conclusion they were being coached extremely poorly.

 

Yes, some different details and circumstances with the defense last year and this, but it looks like two very similar situations--a team unprepared, where players and the units are not playing close to their potential.

 

This week things will likely look different, as McD is PLANTING himself in the defensive meetings and practices, trusting Brady and Tabor.

 

But this is not sustainable. I think McDermott knows this now, knows what good defense looks like and how to prepare players, sees the fundamental problems I am pointing to here and many more, as he is there up close, daily--and so will soon take the reigns completely.

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 01:16 PM by Mister Defense

[BillsFan130]

5 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

The problem I see with what you say above, and why I basically wrote the OP, is that this is how they looked last year, undisciplined, out of place, missing tackles--and then, it is the same this year.  Where is the progression? There seems to regression instead. Unacceptable, I think, for McDermottt and Beane.  We will see.

 

If there is not progress, and we see the same things over and over, game after game, pretty consistently, over last year, and then in the first 1/4 of this year it looks the same, with the same awful stats, overall, and same look and feel, it does not relate almost at all to a few missed players. It doesn't make sense, add up.

 

Instead, it appears to be how they are being prepared during the week, the game plan, and game call--the coach things.

 

Look at Dorsey-- there were fundamental problems, and things did not improve, looked the same--even in the pre season I was sounding the alarm, as the starters looked wildly unprepared in their first game.

 

That summer, and on here, I began to again hit on that as a huge red flag that this offense was not being led correctly, in fact incompetently--dorsey did not know what he was doing, and seemingly did not work hard in the off season to learn what he needed to know.  He made a fool of himself, undermining one of the best offenses in the game more and more with each passing week.

 

And we saw the results then that next season, just as I had predicted.  It wasn't rocket science to add up the actual regression of the offense the previous year, what we saw that summer, and then the shocking start of the season when our high powered offense looked like a shell of itself, inept, confused, bewildered--even seen on the face and body language of Allen--and come to the conclusion they were being coached extremely poorly.

 

Yes, some different details and circumstances with the defense last year and this, but it looks like two very similar situations--a team unprepared, where players and the units are not playing close to their potential.

 

This week things will likely look different, as McD is PLANTING himself in the defensive meetings and practices, trusting Brady and Tabor.

 

But this is not sustainable. I think McDermott knows this know, knows what good defense looks like and how to prepare players, sees the fundamental problems I am pointing to here and many more, as he is there up close, daily--and so will soon take the reigns completely.

 

 

 

Your 2nd last paragraph where you bolded that McDermott will be in the defensive meetings this week is interesting.

Where did you hear that? As if that's true (I have no reason to believe you would make that up) that's not a good sign for Babich

[Mister Defense]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Of course. That is not in dispute. But people are talking like the defense has always sucked and has never been good. People are saying that in this thread. And I'm afraid for as bad as the current defense is and looks that is simply not true. 

 

Absolutely true, just look at how they performed under this staff for most of the time they have been onboard--one of the best defenses in the league, one of the most disciplined, and one that progressed, kept progressing.

 

The posters you reference are basically just referring to the playoff games against KC, that dynasty, that has won 3 Super Bowls, with an historically great QB, one of the best of all time,  and the games the Bills lost to them, often with key injuries, such as Benford and Rapp in the Championship  Game last year, to define the defenses of McDermott as awful.

 

Nonsensical, so I have not even responded to almost any of those.  They have been beating that illogical drum for years and nothing you or I say will stop them.

 

They want to blame McDermott?  Go ahead and blame him for hiring Babich, as I did on here for hiring Dorsey. That is very legitimate criticism.

 

McDermott made those bad decisions, and I believe did so because of his conservative nature--played it safe, he thought,  by hiring from within, his own coaches, coaches players liked and maybe wanted, rather than getting the best of the best from college or the NFL. He has been much less conservative as a coach, has committed to doing that the last few years, and now I think he will also start to do that when it comes to hiring coaches.  He needs to, and I think learned from this mistake.

 

This year though, as it is mid season, he does hire from within again--himself, one of the best defensive coaches in the league, so that is okay.

 

 

[ClemsonBills]

Ahhh yes, must be our DC. Or could it be, possibly, maybe, our defensive head coach who has the worst playoff defense in the HISTORY OF THE NFL?

[Mister Defense]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

The back 7 was very confused, and often out of position, against the Saints.  Youth and inexperience is partly to blame.  That is correctable, and that’s on Babich and the coaches to correct that.  Let’s see if D is better buttoned up against the Pats.  If that does not improve by end of season, that’s on Bobby imo 

 

They likely will be much more "buttoned up", hopefully like they were against the jets, a very very different, disciplined, prepared defense.

 

But it will be because McDermott became the defacto DC this week, as I think he did before the jets game and in games like the Denver playoff game.

 

 

[RunTheBall]

I’ll be concerned if the D doesn’t improve after the bye when we have our dinged up starters and PED boys back. What I’m seeing now is 2 rookies on the D-line, confusion in the back 7, and horrific tackling. All of that is correctable.

 

Babitch isn’t going anywhere this season. At worst, McD will take over the play calling but never admit it.

 

 

[Mister Defense]

14 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

So far 17th in points given up but 31st (almost 32nd) in run defense is a complete embarrassment. I've never seen a teams fan base make more excuses to where we're at.  Injuries, suspensions, rookies, etc....We've never had a dominating defense in the McD era. We've never had a game wrecker in his tenure. I blame Sean and Brandon for not doing a better job of finding defensive talent.  Come playoff time, Josh will have to do what he's always had to do.  Outscore your opponent.....

 

Come on bud, though...  You are conflating things here. Okay, you can say they were never a great defense under McDermott, not having a game wrecker blame Beane, fine, but you are comparing those high quality, top of the league in points allowed over a five year span, disciplined, progressing defenses, stingy against the run, usually with excellent game plans, and lack of big plays given up---to THIS defense!?

 

As you conflate the things like you do, it can make one make horrible decisions, saying this is how it has always been. Lotsa concrete evidence to knock that down. Lotsa.

 

For example, imagine doing that in life decisions. One would make one bad, awful and undermining decision after another, because they are not looking at the matter at hand, but just to back up previous held beliefs, twisting things to fit together that clearly do not.

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 12:48 PM by Mister Defense

[DrDawkinstein]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

We are already blitzing way more than normal. After week 3 we were second in the league for blitz %. It doesn't look pretty. We should be blitzing way less. 

 

Almost worse, no? We're actually blitzing a ton but folks cant even tell because they arent getting home or even past the LOS a lot of times. Whether it's the blitzes Babich is calling, the play design, or players not executing, there are big issues that the DC needs to address asap.

[DJB]

It’s funny how some people on the other side of the argument give credit to McDermott for the all the positives but point fingers at the DC’s or others for the negatives 

[Mister Defense]

33 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Your 2nd last paragraph where you bolded that McDermott will be in the defensive meetings this week is interesting.

Where did you hear that? As if that's true (I have no reason to believe you would make that up) that's not a good sign for Babich

 

I am hypothesizing.  After defensive performances like we have seen against the Ravens, and in vital games like the Denver playoff game, and even the KC championship game, where the Bills' secondary was simply too undermanned, missing two of their best starters, It seems clear that McDermott has stepped in and been MUCH more hands on in preparation and game plan leading up to the game.

 

As the defenses, then, and not miraculously, I don't think, look like very very different defenses. I think we may see the same kinds of improvements this week.

 

And all the while, McDermott is seeing the same thing--hypothesizing here again--and likely getting more information each time where the fundamental problem is.

 

 

[Mister Defense]

15 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

I’ll be concerned if the D doesn’t improve after the bye when we have our dinged up starters and PED boys back. What I’m seeing now is 2 rookies on the D-line, confusion in the back 7, and horrific tackling. All of that is correctable.

 

Babitch isn’t going anywhere this season. At worst, McD will take over the play calling but never admit it.

 

 

 

Disagree with what you say is the problem because of the considerable consistency of things last year and now this--what you say does not add up, as things keep looking the same, fairly consistently, no matter who is playing. And I do think McDermott cuts bait with or clearly demotes Babich if what I and others have been saying is accurate. As not doing so can then easily undermine the entire season--he won't let one coach do that, no matter their relationship, if he knows it is not working. I hope.

 

But my question to you and others is this: Are there clear ways we may be able to tell during a game if McDermott is calling the defensive plays?

 

I really want to know the answer to this, have for a while. 

 

I assume things somehow are different in some ways--play sheets in hand, looking at thembefore each play, his communication level, manner changes...????

[Robert Paulson]

20 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I'm usually on board with you in this sort of debate, but I think this is absolutely a valid discussion at this point.

At no point in McD's tenure have we ever seen a defense this unprepared, disorganized and confused. Teams are taking advantage of that on a regular basis and there is a point where it has to be addressed one way or another.

It's early enough in the season where you could make a change at DC and still have enough time to get your ducks in a row before the stretch run.

There's also the option of having Sean just take over, but that creates it's own set of problems when your HC is distracted from game management on Sundays.

At the least, I would hope that McD takes a far more proactive role during the week to see if he can address the significant problems with preparation and attention to detail while leaving Babich to call the game on Sunday. Then if the same problems with incoherence continue, you maybe consider making a more significant change.

It seems like every other play the back 7 is pointing and screaming and running around like they are shocked at seeing 12 personnel  with a man in motion for the first time. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

It’s funny how some people on the other side of the argument give credit to McDermott for the all the positives but point fingers at the DC’s or others for the negatives 

 

I point fingers at McDermott for the things that I think it is reasonable on a proper assessment of evidence to point fingers at him for. And I certainly don't give him credit for all the positives. A lot of what was right on defense the first six years of this regime was Leslie Frazier as much as it was anyone.