NOW is Bobby Babich's seat hot?

[Mikie2times]

 

3 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

 

That approach works against bad, or even average teams. But in the playoffs, the teams you playing against can overcome that approach. Those teams know how to finish drives. And then you're in a shooting match. We've seen that all too often. 

 Yup, the Tua pick isn't happening in the playoffs. The Rattler missed TD pass to take the lead isn't happening in the playoffs. All these people mocking the fact that we still won are the ones celebrating regular season trophies. This is not going to fly come playoff time.

[mbs]

They built a defense to address Mahomes and Hill and now they need it to address Mahomes and Worthy. That is still the right strategy.

 

Rattler had his worst passing game and Tua, Fields, and even Lamar had low yardage passing games. They are absolutely vulnerable to Henry and Jackson on the ground and even made Rattler look like Tarkenton. Fine, that's better than watching Hill running to the endzone in overtime.

 

Baltimore is their kryptonite and they still figured it out in the end and the team got the win. It is massively skewing the stats and will, on paper, be less worrying over the next few games.

 

As for perception, yes they miss tackles and have players out of place. It's painful. But they will get starters back and it is 100% reasonable to expect the young players to get more disciplined and for the defense to improve until six or eight of them get hurt in January.

 

4-0

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Babich is the designated scapegoat.  His only hope of being here next year is a SuperBowl win or a blocked kick in the playoffs that costs the ST's coordinator his job.  

 

The forced turnovers is regressing to the mean, and without them the defense can't stop the run and can't get off the field on 3rd down.  

 

Just need to limp to the bye week.  By then you should have Hairston, Oliver, and Hoecht playing.  Hopefully Hairston can take over CB#2.  If not that is going to be a problem all season.  Getting Oliver back with Walker playing well it makes the entire DL better.  Bishop is getting better.  Shaq Thompson may supplant Milano and Williams as LB#2. I feel bad for Milano but it's time to move on.  Can't have a one armed LB playing when teams are committed to run at them.  He needs to go to IR and get fully healthy and maybe he comes back for the playoffs.   And lastly, Bernard needs to just play better.  He's really struggling reading plays.  Looks worse than Edmunds did in picking the run lane.  

[Mister Defense]

6 minutes ago, MJS said:

I actually think the bigger issue is that fans were underestimating the Saints and assuming they would come in and lay down. When they put up a fight, it was jarring for them.

 

The Bills actually had multiple stops in a row at the end of the half and in the 3rd quarter. The problem is, the offense got stopped on all those drives as well.

 

yeah, I do agree that is part of it--a much underestimated Saints' team, and even more true for Rattler, who may be their long term answer at QB, finally.

 

The next few weeks will give us and Bills' leaders more info if they are considering  a change.

 

 

[Mikie2times]

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

I actually think the bigger issue is that fans were underestimating the Saints and assuming they would come in and lay down. When they put up a fight, it was jarring for them.

 

The Bills actually had multiple stops in a row at the end of the half and in the 3rd quarter. The problem is, the offense got stopped on all those drives as well.

Yes, in the sense that every coordinator is a puppet of the head coach. But he calls the plays. McDermott allows him to do his job.

Except most of those other puppets established careers independently. Many of them have full creative control of the defense. With McD, with all of his coordinators, he has to promote from within. Which allows him far more control over the coordinator than any external hire. How can anybody think this is Babich's defense or Leslie Frazier's for that matter? McD says, here are all your toys. These are the only toys you get to use. I will give you the freedom to use these toys how you want, but you can't have any other toys.

 

That is hardly freedom. That sounds like complete hell to be honest. Nobody who is talented would work in that situation. 

[sunshynman]

1 hour ago, Mister Defense said:

Well, after three more games, after I posted an OP asking if Babich was on the hot seat, just before the Jets game, I am definitely moving very quickly now to thinking this dreadful defensive performance we have seen to start the year is now very likely the result of some awful coaching. I want to see where Bills’ fans on here stand now, three weeks later.

 

While I am not 100% convinced that Babich is the fundamental problem as I was completely convinced with dorsey, after almost 1/4 of the season now is in the books the needle is definitely moving rapidly in that direction. 90% maybe? It has been almost a shocking defensive collapse to begin the year.

 

 Do people think that this defense looks better than last year's and is improving weekly?:

 

--Do they think it is showing clear progress early in the season, with their weaknesses being fixed, smoothed out? And their strengths becoming more pronounced?

 

--Are there clear signs that most of the very weak aspects of the defense last year are better now--and getting better as this young season progresses?  For example, their overall 3rd down efficiency, their run defense, their tackling, the pass rush, the play calling?

 

--Is Babich making solid half time adjustments that improve things overall at the start of the 2nd half?

 

--And most importantly, do players look prepared, disciplined, confident and ready--and are they playing to their potential as individuals and as units?

 

 

To me the, and almost across the board, the answers are no. And too often, a resounding, hell no.  

 

In fact, the defense looks more consistently bad this year than last year, making teams like the dolphins and saints look unstoppable for the majority of those games. The dolphins and saints. At HOME  With tens of thousands of loud rabid fans making their life easier.

 

A friend said, well it's because Oliver has not been in there, and Milano, and the suspended guys too.  But that seems really off--the Bills in the past, and the other good teams, readily overcome those types of player losses.  Maybe they show some more gaps in their defense, but they almost never collapse.  And the startling consistency of the weaknesses of this year and last year throw cold water on that, to me. 

 

Watching the last two games, against teams that are not world beaters, and both AT HOME,  both opposing offenses seemed to get better and better against this defense as the games progressed, not worse.  It often seemed like the Bills had no answers, with gaping holes in the secondary, gaping holes against the run, big spacial voids all over the field, all game long, horrible tackling, players looking out of position consistently---and that lost, confused look we too often saw on the faces of offensive players as dorsey 'progressed' in his tenure--and especially in his last year: "What is going on out here? We have no asnwers," sums up those looks.

 

Yes, the Bills are 4-0, but this is not in any way a championship defense--they cannot rely on big splash plays to win games, at the end of games, on defense all year. And not on the road, and not against the top teams. Not consistently. That will not work. All of the team’s hopes for this season, and ours, will be dashed IF this type of defense is allowed to continue. 

 

To me, right now, this really looks like a very very poorly coached defense in almost all respects.  And if I see this, and if I am right, then McDermott knows it, but in a much more specific, detailed manner just how poorly Babich is leading this defense. And ditto for Brandon Beane--does Beane think with the players he provided that the defense should have these kinds of fundamental flaws in so many areas--again?  I would bet the answer is NO. This is why I am convinced that Babich's seat is extremely hot, burning.

 

Why did they look so different against the Jets, prepared, disciplined, tackling well, in position.... I think after awful weeks for the defense, like we saw against the Ravens, or in important games, like the Denver playoff game, McDermott has basically taken over for his young DC.

 

The Bills don't need a great defense to be champions this year, and maybe not even a very good one--just a good one. 

 

But, so far, this defense looks fundamentally flawed.  Awful even, and a great deal of the time.

 

I think Babich's seat is extraordinarily hot now.  A few more games, one?, like we have just seen and McDermott should take over. Our great offense was on a death march under dorsey. Before the season I said he would be gone by Halloween. That season they quiuckly were falling out of the playoff race, and almost there as the season regressed. Don Orlovsky said our offense, with Josh Allen leading it, had become ‘the easiest offense in the NFL to defend’.  But McDermott stepped in, and made the kind of dramatic change most thought he would not make.  Then, in one week, one, the offense looked like world beaters—again--and were that way for the rest of the season.  I think the same thing may very well be needed very soon with Babich. And  it could have the same effects.  They won’t be a great defense, not there yet, with the young players and changes, but I am convinced the defense will show the same kind of improvement that we saw when Brady took over the offense.

 

Even if you are not on board that Babich is the main problem, isn’t it hard  for you to imagine this defense not playing dramatically better with any high quaity defensive coordinator like Schwartz, Spagnuolo—or a McDermott coaching them? To me the answer here is hell yes.

 

 

Growing pains from a schema change and key players missing is the issue right now. Eagles, Detroit, Rams, KC would probably score at will on the D currently. Good thing we got a few weeks before we play some of them. We need to be heading towards a great D come playoffs. I think the Eagles game will be a good measuring stick for the D. And likely will need to be less "ugly" by the O.

[JP51]

9 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

How could Babich be on the hot seat at 4 and 0. He’s stuck with Beane/Sean’s roster. Did Babich pick Landon Jackson, TJ. Sanders or Hairston? Did Babich reward Rousseau for being a string bean who can’t get a sniff of the QB while getting an extension for big money? Did Babich find a way to pull off the miracle Ravens comeback down 15 with 4 minutes to go? Did Babich’s defense shut down a spirited Dolphins and Saints team on 4th quarter stops? Get back to us when the Bills lose.

Well, I think if you read what I wrote I said I do not think it is hot... but I think it should be... the reason would be several fold, 1, performance no one can look at this defense and believe it is acceptable... again, gashed by the run, poor tackling 3rd and longs etc...      2. Scheme, I think McD has a lot to do with scheme and I think the personnel needs to be looked at by an exceptional defensive mind whose existence for the past several years has been focused on defense in a changing league, not a 2nd yr out of his league Dco and a head coach who has been focusing on head coaching since the 2000 teens...   Bottom line defense needs to improve, has needed to improve for years... Babich is not improving the defense... most would say not even really changing it... 

 

Your point about personel is a very good one... leads me to a chicken and egg thing... because I do not think we have drafted well, nor signed quality FA for the money we have spent...  whose fault is this... could very well be that Beane and McD cant pick talent... could be... could be Babich isnt getting the best out of them... could be both, probably a combination... but the lack of improvement from Rousseau to straight out regression to me move to coaching... like the regression of Ed Oliver last year... he did play a good game this year lets hope that continues...  the regression of Douglas last year... I might even have a little gnat in my thoughts wondering if Benford has seen a regression.... lets see... these things move to coaching to me...  lack of tackling and proper angles is killing is... this moves to coaching to me...  so the bottom line like anything, its never just 1 thing there is blame to go around... but Babich to me is not making the best out of his talent, they do not seem prepared to play and they are performing like the same ol same ol.... with respect to the rookies... Jackson, Sanders.... is it them... is it how they are being coached, do we have them in a position to be successful... me personally, I think its their own limitations... Hairston, not sure why we are mentioning him... he had an injury cant really put that on Mc D Beane or Babich...  

 

Bottom line, same problems for years... Babich has not made a meaningful change in our performance and sometimes assistants go because of the sins of their bosses.... like you said, but we need more, we need a true pro in here that can improve this defense because Babich isnt... 

[Lagoon Blues]

It is the style of D...it is going to give up rushing yards.  Those tend to more predominantly impact me mentally when I watch the games.  Run after Run beats me down psychologically.  This tends to give me negative emotions towards the D.  I know that I cannot give a response to this post removing emotions.

[billsfan89]

8 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

 

 Yup, the Tua pick isn't happening in the playoffs. The Rattler missed TD pass to take the lead isn't happening in the playoffs. All these people mocking the fact that we still won are the ones celebrating regular season trophies. This is not going to fly come playoff time.

 

You gotta win who you play to put yourself in the playoffs and get as good of a seed as possible. The Bills can't win playoff games in September/October, I've checked and that's impossible. The Bills can however play a lot of younger defensive players like they are (with Cole, Walker and Sanders all getting hefty playing time and even Strong and Solomon getting snaps) so that by the time January rolls around these guys have a lot of experience under their belt.

 

I'm very nervous about this defense but I'm also not going to say the regular season doesn't matter either. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I am guessing McD will just take back play calling duties here if they have some more poor showings. But I think they are giving BB a long leash.

[hondo in seattle]

When I look at the defensive roster, and then look at the injury report, I'm not sure how much we can expect or demand from Babich.

 

We're not fielding a bunch of studs and yet we're currently ranked 11th in overall yards/game, #1 in passing yards/game, #31 in rushing yards/game.  

 

Clearly the run defense needs to improve.  But I'm amazed that McD and Babich have transformed these misfits into the league's best pass defense.    

 

It's almost like McD and Babich are telling other teams, "Go ahead and run on us.  You won't score enough points to keep up with Josh."  And so far they're right.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 05:42 PM by hondo in seattle

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, hondo in seattle said:

When I look at the defensive roster, and then look at the injury report, I'm not sure how much we can expect or demand from Babich.

 

We're not fielding a bunch of studs and yet we're currently ranked 11th in overall yards/game, #1 in passing yards/game, #31 in rushing yards/game.  

 

Clearly the run defense needs to improve.  But I'm amazed that McD and Babich have transformed these misfits into the league's best pass defense.    

We are hardly the leagues best pass defense. Teams are picking the path of least resistance. Tua, Fields, and Rattler also have some input on it. 

[WotAGuy]

As for the OP, that’s a lot of words to say they suck. 

[thenorthremembers]

21 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Except most of those other puppets established careers independently. Many of them have full creative control of the defense. With McD, with all of his coordinators, he has to promote from within. Which allows him far more control over the coordinator than any external hire. How can anybody think this is Babich's defense or Leslie Frazier's for that matter? McD says, here are all your toys. These are the only toys you get to use. I will give you the freedom to use these toys how you want, but you can't have any other toys.

 

That is hardly freedom. That sounds like complete hell to be honest. Nobody who is talented would work in that situation. 

 

How would you know any of this without being in the building?   Are you saying most head coaches dont have their fingerprints all over their teams?

 

 

[mbs]

14 minutes ago, Lagoon Blues said:

It is the style of D...it is going to give up rushing yards.  Those tend to more predominantly impact me mentally when I watch the games.  Run after Run beats me down psychologically.  This tends to give me negative emotions towards the D.  I know that I cannot give a response to this post removing emotions.

Exactly. I feel this too:

 

3rd down, seven seconds into the play, Rattler scrambles for 12 yards and a first down.

FIRE EVERYBODY!

 

3rd down, three seconds into the play, Rattler hits a slant for 14 yards.

Eh, it happens.

 

(This is my last excuse the terrible run defense post.)

[eball]

INCOMPLETE. I’ll keep saying it until I’m blue in the face. Anyone who judges the Bills defense right now just doesn’t understand what’s going on. This is a work in progress and they have another month to get guys back and figure it out. In the meantime they’ve given up 50 points in three games and folks are losing their s-h-I-t because it’s not 4-0 enough for them. 
 

[noacls17]

1 hour ago, RkFast said:

 

The Bills are ranked 9th total defense (awful!!!!) and 2nd in passing (ATROCIOUS!!!) and....32nd in running (ok, thats bad). 

 

They havent been the 85 Bears no. But you would think the defense is getting blown off the field each week (they are not) and the team is 0-4 (they are not) the way some people are acting.  They are, in a word....average. Obviously room for improvement but lets calm down here.

25th in 3rd down defense and terrible against the run with probably the easiest schedule in league. 

[sullim4]

I am not a Babich fan, but I also think firing him isn't going to turn it around this season.

 

The root cause comes down to the roster - they assembled a group of fragile "high motor" guys that have a tendency to get hurt at the expense of putting hard hitting, physical players on defense.  This has been McDermott's MO on defense since he arrived.

 

Dorsey got fired because he had an MVP in Allen on the roster and they were not playing to their potential.  Can you really say that Babich's defense is bursting with talent?  Milano, Oliver, and Daquan Jones are the top three paid defensive players this year.  Not exactly elite level talent.

 

This is unfortunately a problem that has to be addressed in the offseason.

[HamptonBillsfan]

4 minutes ago, JP51 said:

Well, I think if you read what I wrote I said I do not think it is hot... but I think it should be... the reason would be several fold, 1, performance no one can look at this defense and believe it is acceptable... again, gashed by the run, poor tackling 3rd and longs etc...      2. Scheme, I think McD has a lot to do with scheme and I think the personnel needs to be looked at by an exceptional defensive mind whose existence for the past several years has been focused on defense in a changing league, not a 2nd yr out of his league Dco and a head coach who has been focusing on head coaching since the 2000 teens...   Bottom line defense needs to improve, has needed to improve for years... Babich is not improving the defense... most would say not even really changing it... 

 

Your point about personel is a very good one... leads me to a chicken and egg thing... because I do not think we have drafted well, nor signed quality FA for the money we have spent...  whose fault is this... could very well be that Beane and McD cant pick talent... could be... could be Babich isnt getting the best out of them... could be both, probably a combination... but the lack of improvement from Rousseau to straight out regression to me move to coaching... like the regression of Ed Oliver last year... he did play a good game this year lets hope that continues...  the regression of Douglas last year... I might even have a little gnat in my thoughts wondering if Benford has seen a regression.... lets see... these things move to coaching to me...  lack of tackling and proper angles is killing is... this moves to coaching to me...  so the bottom line like anything, its never just 1 thing there is blame to go around... but Babich to me is not making the best out of his talent, they do not seem prepared to play and they are performing like the same ol same ol.... with respect to the rookies... Jackson, Sanders.... is it them... is it how they are being coached, do we have them in a position to be successful... me personally, I think its their own limitations... Hairston, not sure why we are mentioning him... he had an injury cant really put that on Mc D Beane or Babich...  

 

Bottom line, same problems for years... Babich has not made a meaningful change in our performance and sometimes assistants go because of the sins of their bosses.... like you said, but we need more, we need a true pro in here that can improve this defense because Babich isnt... 

What’s the rush to dump this guy when he’s working with substandard personnel. You must agree that getting pressure with their front four without Oliver is not possible so Babich is starting to bring Bernard, Thompson and even Bishop. That  paid  dividends against the Saints and Miami. He’s missed a great run defender and tackler with superior diagnostic instincts in Milano. Tre is giving a great effort but he’s going to struggle against top receivers( Hill, Shaheen, Flowers, etc) I like the idea of stopping teams when the game is on the line. In the Ravens miracle we stopped them and turned them over to make Josh’s comeback possible. Against Miami, who played their best game, we turned them over and got pressure on Tua when they were on the verge of taking the lead. Same thing with NO, they went 4 and out with the game on the line. At the end of the 1st half. Bishop got a TO to get us momentum. He was put in a position by Babich’s defense to make a big play. If you believe that this defense will improve with the PED boys, Oliver,Milano and Hairston, it’s worth giving Babich a pass.

[hondo in seattle]

5 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

We are hardly the leagues best pass defense. Teams are picking the path of least resistance. Tua, Fields, and Rattler also have some input on it. 

 

Fair point.  But the Bills are still 11th in D despite a banged-up, average roster.

 

And by taking the path of least resistance, opponents are not keeping up.  Running against us has proven to be a losing strategy.  We're outgaining and outscoring our opponents.  

 

To some extent, this is by design.  When I was a kid, a nickel or dime defense was called "pass prevent."  This year, we've been running nickel and dime about 80% of the time.  In other words, we're almost always in "pass prevent."