Do The Bills Have A Passing Game Problem?

[Wayne Cubed]

12 minutes ago, The Cincinnati Kid said:

You just can’t throw verts and posts into cover 4. 

 

Excecpt 4 Verts concept, is a classice Cover 4 beater. It stresses the safeties and opens the seams. It's also a Cover 2 beater. 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

No, you just don’t like the way they’re winning football games.

[BillsFan130]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Just think the Bills feel they don't need to put things on film against these middling teams like Dolphins and Jets yet and that they can "get by" with basic stuff.

I mean, maybe? But you would think when it's a tie game in the 4th quarter that they would start to empty the tank at least a little bit 

[The Cincinnati Kid]

8 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

It's a talking point I brought up as I don't just look at the score and pretend all is great. You know it was 21-21 and the bills were punting in the 4th quarter before the roughing the punter right? 3 straight punts in the 2nd half against the worst defence in the league doesn't concern you 1 bit, and you're just good looking at the box score knowing they won?

 

I am very happy they won. But im also not naive enough to know that for the most part, the 2nd half offence was a disaster 

I completely disagree with this point. Football games are long and there are ebbs and flows. I know it is not the same thing, but I was a Varsity Offensive Coordinator for a long time and developed game plans and called plays in games and in high leverage situations.  An effective offense does not force the issue until they absolutely have to do so. You have a plan and you stick to the plan until the situation changes that plan. You do that because you believe it is a winning formula. I promise you that if that roughing penalty didn’t occur and the Bills were then in a position where they had to force the issue they would have. The Bills offense changes in a predictable way as does the Dolphins Defense. Good staffs know that and have their contingencies in the game plans and call sheets. We didn’t see it because we didn’t need to see it.

3 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Excecpt 4 Verts concept, is a classice Cover 4 beater. It stresses the safeties and opens the seams. It's also a Cover 2 beater. 

Running 4 vertical routes at 4 deep safties is “a classic” cover 4 beater?!

 

i quit.

[zow2]

Last night is the first time in a close game that I think the Buffalo Bills coaches made a concerted effort to manage Josh Allen.  This wasn't like a few of the blowouts when the D played well and Allen didn't have to do anything.  This was a game in the past that Josh would take off and scramble, take some hits, leave the pocket and throw on the run, etc..  He didn't really do any of that and I'm sure it was by design.  I didn't love that on 3rd and 9, 3rd and 8's... he would stand in the pocket and throw a 5 yard check down, only for the receiver to be tackled short.  I'm sure he looked downfield but Keon and Palmer were missing in action.  Josh is at his best when he's moving his feet, taking off or throwing downfield from outside the pocket as things break down.  Clearly that is being held back for later in the season and playoffs.   It's a copycat league and we just saw a season where the Eagles didn't throw all that much and they won the SB.  KC didn't light up the passing last year but got to the SB.  The difference is our defense is not as good as theirs.

[Wayne Cubed]

2 minutes ago, The Cincinnati Kid said:

Running 4 vertical routes at 4 deep safties is “a classic” cover 4 beater?!

 

I quit.

 

Yes it is.

 

See ya later.

[Mat68]

Allen is playing with surgical precision its scary.  Also, the oline is humming with Cook on the ground.  Buffalo scored over 100 points in 3 games.  When you are getting 10 yard a clip you continue running it until the defense proves they can stop it.  2 weeks in a row that was the case.  First week Allen had to throw and went wild.  They are tough to match up against.  Having an offense that can spread you out and go laser show or go heavy set and punch you in the face makes them very unique in that area.  I get Allen throwing for 400 is fun but having Cook rushing for 100 plus over 5 yards a carry is just as good to me.  

[No_Matter_What]

10 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Ok. But are we comparing ourselves to the patriots offence?

 

3 straight punts in the 2nd half just isn't good enough with a Josh Allen led offence 

I'll say it again. People like you and many others in this thread just won't be happy until we score 40 in every game.

 

It's ridiculous.

[BillsFan130]

7 minutes ago, The Cincinnati Kid said:

I completely disagree with this point. Football games are long and there are ebbs and flows. I know it is not the same thing, but I was a Varsity Offensive Coordinator for a long time and developed game plans and called plays in games and in high leverage situations.  An effective offense does not force the issue until they absolutely have to do so. You have a plan and you stick to the plan until the situation changes that plan. You do that because you believe it is a winning formula. I promise you that if that roughing penalty didn’t occur and the Bills were then in a position where they had to force the issue they would have. The Bills offense changes in a predictable way as does the Dolphins Defense. Good staffs know that and have their contingencies in the game plans and call sheets. We didn’t see it because we didn’t need to see it.

Running 4 vertical routes at 4 deep safties is “a classic” cover 4 beater?!

 

i quit.

"If they didn't get the roughing the passer they would force the issue".?
 

So you are saying  they had no urgency when it's 21-21 in the 4th quarter? I don't agree with that at all. 

[BillsFan130]

11 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

I'll say it again. People like you and many others in this thread just won't be happy until we score 40 in every game.

 

It's ridiculous.

So that's how you judge the offence, You just look at the points and determine if it was good or not...
 

You don't weigh in quality of opponent? (Miamis defence being dead last)

 

You don't weigh in how they got the points? (7 off a roughing the punter and 3 off a late interception)

 

There are times where the offence scores 24 and I think they played really well depending on context. And there are times like tonight where they score 31 and I think they were a bit off, especially in the 2nd half.

 

Sorry if I don't just blindly look at the box score and say "hey we got 30 points so it was a great performance by the offence"

 

 

Edited September 19 by BillsFan130

[No_Matter_What]

10 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Another WR thread.  Lol.  
 

Seriously tho, the answer is no.   
 

The predictable Brady runs on 1st down are getting a bit irritating tho.  

Apart from the last FG drive, we had 25 first downs in the game if I count correctly.

 

We passed 13 times and ran 12 times.

 

How is that predictable?

 

 

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, No_Matter_What said:

Apart from the last FG drive, we had 25 first downs in the game if I count correctly.

 

We passed 13 times and ran 12 times.

 

How is that predictable?

 

 

 

Because fans like to complain...

[Mat68]

5 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Last night is the first time in a close game that I think the Buffalo Bills coaches made a concerted effort to manage Josh Allen.  This wasn't like a few of the blowouts when the D played well and Allen didn't have to do anything.  This was a game in the past that Josh would take off and scramble, take some hits, leave the pocket and throw on the run, etc..  He didn't really do any of that and I'm sure it was by design.  I didn't love that on 3rd and 9, 3rd and 8's... he would stand in the pocket and throw a 5 yard check down, only for the receiver to be tackled short.  I'm sure he looked downfield but Keon and Palmer were missing in action.  Josh is at his best when he's moving his feet, taking off or throwing downfield from outside the pocket as things break down.  Clearly that is being held back for later in the season and playoffs.   It's a copycat league and we just saw a season where the Eagles didn't throw all that much and they won the SB.  KC didn't light up the passing last year but got to the SB.  The difference is our defense is not as good as theirs.

Allen is in his Manning/ Brady era.  He is checking in and out of everything.  Allen is in full control.  Hard to argue with how he handled the game.  2 of the Dolphins 3 scoring drives were results of special team errors.  Opening kickoff to Bills territory and the missed fg. Miami showed little capacity to march the length of the field to score consistently.  No reason for Allen to force the ball down field and or abandon the run game that was working.  This is not Mcdermott or Brady.  This is Josh playing under control.  Short week little prep.  What are the handful of run game and passing concepts they have excelled at to this point?  Run those execute and win the game. They did. Scored 31 with a missed fg.

[No_Matter_What]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

So that's how you judge the team, You just look at the points and determine if it was good or not...
 

You don't weigh in quality of opponent? (Miamis defence being dead last)

 

You don't weigh in how they got the points? (7 off a roughing the punter and 3 off a late interception)

 

There are times where the offence scores 24 and I think they played really well depending on context. And there are times like tonight where they score 31 and I think they were a bit off, especially in the 2nd half.

 

Sorry if I don't just blindly look at the box score and say "hey we got 30 points so it was a great performance by the offence"

 

 

Yeah and then you can just realize that no matter how you look at individual games Buffalo has the best offense over the last five years.

 

Reality is that you want perfection, and it doesn't exist in the real world.

 

And yeah this was very good performance by the offense. First three drives up to the unfortunate ending of the third one were maybe the best three consecutive drives in Allen era. Maybe one less punt and I'd call it great performance.

[JP51]

10 hours ago, NoSaint said:

we didn’t need to force the issue tonight but it really stood out as a major concern. 

I dont disagree here... the offense is the offense because the OLine is dominant and James Cook is running well and Josh is Josh... the passing game looks like it is a safe dink and dunk with rare down field throws... now I havent seen the stat breakdown to know if this supposition is true... but from the eye test, I am not seeing it... further the drops by key players in key situations 3 games in is clearly concerning....  I actually kinda commend Bready for scheming some of these completions as well....  as it does not look like they are getting separation down field to me... especially against Miami's 5th and 6th CBs....  lastly I think they have made a pretty obvious decision to limit the designed JA17 runs.... this was a big piece to account for that opposing D can back off a bit... but then here I am critizing and offense that is averaging like 35 points a game... so who knows... but indeed it just doesnt feel right... 

[Big Turk]

29 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I mean, maybe? But you would think when it's a tie game in the 4th quarter that they would start to empty the tank at least a little bit 

 

I still think they believe "we have Josh Allen and that's enough".

[BillsFan130]

7 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Yeah and then you can just realize that no matter how you look at individual games Buffalo has the best offense over the last five years.

 

Reality is that you want perfection, and it doesn't exist in the real world.

 

And yeah this was very good performance by the offense. First three drives up to the unfortunate ending of the third one were maybe the best three consecutive drives in Allen era. Maybe one less punt and I'd call it great performance.

I don't expect perfection. But when Miamis defence got carved by Daniel jones and Drake maye and they are on a short week coming to buffalo with their secondary decimated, ya I had extremely high expectations for the offence and I didn't have 3 punts in a row on the bingo card 

Edited September 19 by BillsFan130

[DapperCam]

I think Allen is being coached to be extremely conservative. A few examples:
 

- Multiple times on 3rd and long checking down and getting tackled short of the sticks.

- Eating the sack before the missed FG. Typical Allen would have escaped or tried to pass in the collapsing pocket, but that is riskier.
- Always taking the checkdown when WR are sent deep unless they are clearly open (no 50/50 balls, or throwing players open).

The people just quoting scores and saying everything is fine, I challenge you with the following scenarios:
- What happens in a game when the run game isn't working? It is absolutely going to happen.
- What happens as the season progresses, and teams start to adjust and shut down our short passing game (think the Texans game last season)?

For better or worse, the coaches have decided that negative plays are to be avoided at all costs on offense. It's worked out so far, but the team will have to show it can take risks consistently to win the SB.

[billsbackto81]

10 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Cook has been cooking. We are at our best when we are running the football. I love it personally. Especially when we go 3 Tight Ends. 

It's double edged.  I love watching Cook do his thing, but it gives Brady a false sense of security that he can keep running it in close games. That leaves Josh less margin for error, and eventually has to put on the cape.

 

Successful for 5 or 6 drives, then 3 and out, 3 and out, 3 and out. Saved by a couple penalties. Opportunities wasted that could've resulted in numerous kill shots. Missed FG didn't help.

 

If you're getting 6-8 yds. on a 1st down run, why not take your shot on 2nd and keep a defense honest? 

 

Kinda feel Brady is having a problem finding a happy balance. He's content running an offense that limits JA's potential for Ints while dinking and dunking and zone concept rushing.

 

Jmoh....

[Mat68]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I don't expect perfection. But when Miamis defence got carved by Daniel jones and Drake maye and they are on a short week coming to buffalo with their secondary decimated, ya I had extremely high expectations for the offence

They scored 31.  Had a missed FG.  Miami was trying to play keep away on offense.  This Sunday count how many teams score over 30.  It’s not as common as you think. B offensive performance and they get 30.  Thats pretty crazy to think about. They still won by 10.