A few Random Thoughts After the Ravens Game

[GunnerBill]

31 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

That may be.  Still doesn't remove the larger point that this season is a referendum on the HC, GM, and their philosophy on how to win.  

 

I mean, sure. Every season is in a way. There is more pressure on McDermott and Beane every year they don't win a Superbowl. Ultimately only one philosophy a year succeeds.

[ngbills]

16 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Is that what he's coached to do? Are you sure? Could very well be theyve been told to run their assignments and do their 1/11th no matter what. Otherwise, you have some guys running 1 play, and others running another. Who knows? Someone should ask Babich.

I would be 99% sure that in film or even on the sidelines Babich asked why he would still try that blitz and tell him he should have dropped into coverage. NFL players have played a ton of snaps. I doubt this is the first time there was a quick snap when a guy was disguising a blitz and had to abandon the blitz. If not we would see this every Sunday. I can’t think of a game I saw a guy blitzing from that deep. 

[Don Otreply]

On 9/9/2025 at 1:10 PM, RochesterLifer said:

Nicely done, all good observations. I was especially excited to see Coleman and Palmer's 4th quarter performances. This was one of our biggest concerns coming into the season. While only one game, they are giving us cause for great optimism.

Coleman & Palmer were both getting separation with regularity, 

[Sierra Foothills]

On 9/10/2025 at 7:34 AM, Virgil said:

I really like the collaborative nature of this this thread went, with everyone giving their own thoughts, in no particular order…😋.  
 

I really don’t see me writing my version (originally Bill’s) very much anymore.  I’m happy to see it live on in some capacity. 

 

Thank you for this Virgil.

 

You're an excellent poster and a great role model here.

 

19 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree, I like the coaches rhetoric and attitude. However, his defense has a lot to prove. Lots of youngsters, missing pieces, and new coaches. It's week 1. The defense has time to improve but who knows if it will. The Ravens are the absolute worst matchup for the Bills D. I think the defense is a work in progress. Hopefully, by playoff time they are healthy and formidable. In the end, I think it's Allen and the offense that will win us most games. 

 

I'm a bit concerned about Bernard. I don't think he's shown much after his breakout season. Maybe I'm wrong. 

 

My thoughts on the defensive debate:

• There are 6 defensive rookies and 5 defensive free agents that are trying to assimilate. There's been modifications to the defensive coaching staff. IF there's going to be improvement, it won't be immediate. It's more likely to be a process that plays out over the season.
• I agree that the Ravens are a great offense AND a bad matchup for the Bills D.
• I agree that Rapp and Bernard were possibly the two worst defenders on the field.
• Posters here are fond of thinking of Daquan Jones as a 1T but he really isn't. He's a big guy who can play that role and is certainly our best approximation of a 1T but he's really an athletic, penetrating big guy... not that different from Jordan Phillips.
• I agree with the misgivings about giving Bernard the extension. That said, he tends to exemplify the weaknesses on this defense and yet, also their never-say-die attitude. He has an obvious knack for making big plays as shown in the last two games against the Ravens (remember it was he, who recovered the Henry fumble).
• On Bishop's extremely late blitz, (regardless of coaching) he was in no-man's land and the only chance of him making any impact on that play would have been to try to find a useful space to position himself in the defensive backfield. I would say that whatever coaching he has received, a great player knows when to break the rules and how to react to unforeseen circumstances.
• This season is clearly a fan referendum on the competency of the defensive coaching. I think Babich is on the hot seat.

Edited September 11 by Sierra Foothills

[BADOLBILZ]

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I actually disagree very strongly. The more I watch the all22 the more convinced I am that the linebackers and the safetys were the primary reason for the defensive failure.

 

I caught Joe Marino's bit on WGR he said that same. 

 

I don't think it was primarily coaching (though I do think Babich is continually trying to "do too much" in these games.... some bear front, some base defense, too many blitzes which Lamar killed) it was primarily a more basic inability to gst basic run fits right. Bernard was dreadful, Rapp was worse. Milano was almost as bad. Williams was all over the place and Bishop still looks tentative and late on most plays. 

 

It isn't so much about tackling Henry in space. I agree that is darn hard. It is about basic gap discipline and run fits. And the linebackers and safeties sucked at it on Sunday.

 

I don't know what he has been coached but he should not have followed through with that blitz. No way. That is just bad football. Players have to be accountable.

 

I am in the middle on this argument.   I think @HappyDays is right that they need a dominant 1 tech if they want to play base nickel with 2 less-than-physical LB's.  It was different when they had 250# 1st round pick Tremaine Edmunds,  having to sacrifice pass rush to protect that no-play-making SOB was a ridiculous state of affairs.  Bernard NEEDS protection.   That MF'er is a turnover magnet and you need those kind of players opposite a high powered offense.   Bernard also might be their best pass rusher(aside from Ed if he plays like this) and you can't use Bernard on the blitz if you can't control the middle of the LOS.

 

And I do somewhat excuse the LB's and safeties some for being in preseason form because they basically didn't play behind this line in game action until Sunday and the Ravens clearly put a lot of thought into this game plan.  The Bills were reacting.   Whatever they might have drawn up they weren't able to get to it because Monken beat them to the punch.    That said,  the huge, untouched run gains by the Ravens weren't appreciably different than getting gashed by a few huge pass plays.   So by late in the game the Bills defense was still fresh.   Even Ed Oliver only played 35 snaps and it seemed like he was not coming off the field in the second half.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I am in the middle on this argument.   I think @HappyDays is right that they need a dominant 1 tech if they want to play base nickel with 2 less-than-physical LB's.  It was different when they had 250# 1st round pick Tremaine Edmunds,  having to sacrifice pass rush to protect that no-play-making SOB was a ridiculous state of affairs.  Bernard NEEDS protection.   That MF'er is a turnover magnet and you need those kind of players opposite a high powered offense.   Bernard also might be their best pass rusher(aside from Ed if he plays like this) and you can't use Bernard on the blitz if you can't control the middle of the LOS.

 

And I do somewhat excuse the LB's and safeties some for being in preseason form because they basically didn't play behind this line in game action until Sunday and the Ravens clearly put a lot of thought into this game plan.  The Bills were reacting.   Whatever they might have drawn up they weren't able to get to it because Monken beat them to the punch.    That said,  the huge, untouched run gains by the Ravens weren't appreciably different than getting gashed by a few huge pass plays.   So by late in the game the Bills defense was still fresh.   Even Ed Oliver only played 35 snaps and it seemed like he was not coming off the field in the second half.

 

Oh I'm not saying they don't need a better 1 tech. I didn't like the Daquan contract when they did that before 2024 and it has played out exactly as I'd have predicted, overpaying for a declining talent. But whatever the reasons there is no excusing performances as bad as the linebackers and safeties put out there on Sunday and they are accountable for that. They were terrible. 

[BillsVet]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I mean, sure. Every season is in a way. There is more pressure on McDermott and Beane every year they don't win a Superbowl. Ultimately only one philosophy a year succeeds.

 

When you continually revamp defensive personnel and that unit falters in critical moments, then their governing philosophy is up for criticism.  More now than any other season based on significant DL and a fair amount of secondary investment.  This while wanting a run-pass balance to wear teams down on offense.  

 

There's little margin for error, and when it doesn't work then they need hero ball from Josh.  He's mostly been up to the task, but when his low-moderate receiving talent aren't you get the AFC CG last year.  Or, the Week 1 game against Baltimore.  

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

When you continually revamp defensive personnel and that unit falters in critical moments, then their governing philosophy is up for criticism.  More now than any other season based on significant DL and a fair amount of secondary investment.  This while wanting a run-pass balance to wear teams down on offense.  

 

There's little margin for error, and when it doesn't work then they need hero ball from Josh.  He's mostly been up to the task, but when his low-moderate receiving talent aren't you get the AFC CG last year.  Or, the Week 1 game against Baltimore.  

 

For sure. But every season is a referendum on the approach every team has taken. That's the sport. You build your roster in March and April. You find out whether it worked between September and February.

[newcam2012]

4 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Thank you for this Virgil.

 

You're an excellent poster and a great role model here.

 

 

My thoughts on the defensive debate:

• There are 6 defensive rookies and 5 defensive free agents that are trying to assimilate. There's been modifications to the defensive coaching staff. IF there's going to be improvement, it won't be immediate. It's more likely to be a process that plays out over the season.
• I agree that the Ravens are a great offense AND a bad matchup for the Bills D.
• I agree that Rapp and Bernard were possibly the two worst defenders on the field.
• Posters here are fond of thinking of Daquan Jones as a 1T but he really isn't. He's a big guy who can play that role and is certainly our best approximation of a 1T but he's really an athletic, penetrating big guy... not that different from Jordan Phillips.
• I agree with the misgivings about giving Bernard the extension. That said, he tends to exemplify the weaknesses on this defense and yet, also their never-say-die attitude. He has an obvious knack for making big plays as shown in the last two games against the Ravens (remember it was he, who recovered the Henry fumble).
• On Bishop's extremely late blitz, (regardless of coaching) he was in no-man's land and the only chance of him making any impact on that play would have been to try to find a useful space to position himself in the defensive backfield. I would say that whatever coaching he has received, a great player knows when to break the rules and how to react to unforeseen circumstances.
• This season is clearly a fan referendum on the competency of the defensive coaching. I think Babich is on the hot seat.

I also think there will be more negative sentiment towards McD if he fails again in the playoffs. Similar to Tomlin and Harbaugh. All three are very good coaches. The defining factor and difference is two out of three have an important ring. Not an insignificant factor. 

 

 

Edited September 11 by newcam2012

[Coach Tuesday]

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

For sure. But every season is a referendum on the approach every team has taken. That's the sport. You build your roster in March and April. You find out whether it worked between September and February.

 

Yeah if the defense is mostly healthy later in the season but still completely ineffectual then you've got a referendum situation.  I cannot get too fired up about Week 1.

[BillsVet]

45 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

For sure. But every season is a referendum on the approach every team has taken. That's the sport. You build your roster in March and April. You find out whether it worked between September and February.

 

Well, if that defense is largely healthy and it's still yielding 40 points to higher-caliber teams then their off-season was a miss...again.  But we got a long way to go.    

 

Still, it wouldn't be the first time that their off-season changes were insufficient.  And that should prompt people to ask whether what HC and GM believe in can work.  

Especially with this QB and how he is still getting better after an MVP season.      

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Oh I'm not saying they don't need a better 1 tech. I didn't like the Daquan contract when they did that before 2024 and it has played out exactly as I'd have predicted, overpaying for a declining talent. But whatever the reasons there is no excusing performances as bad as the linebackers and safeties put out there on Sunday and they are accountable for that. They were terrible. 

 

Well they played very little football this summer because McBeane were trying to get to opening day healthy.   And that's what it looks like when a talented, vengeance-fueled opponent brings it to a team that isn't anywhere near physically prepared for that level of intensity.   But late in the game they both came up with big plays recovering a fumble and stopping Zay Flowers for no gain.    Unfortunately, the Bills have been the primary offseason fixation of their next two vengeful opponents as well.   They don't have the luxury of easing into their schedule.   That's why they were playing football at practice yesterday instead of the usual.

[Richard Noggin]

11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I am in the middle on this argument.   I think @HappyDays is right that they need a dominant 1 tech if they want to play base nickel with 2 less-than-physical LB's.  It was different when they had 250# 1st round pick Tremaine Edmunds,  having to sacrifice pass rush to protect that no-play-making SOB was a ridiculous state of affairs.  Bernard NEEDS protection.   That MF'er is a turnover magnet and you need those kind of players opposite a high powered offense.   Bernard also might be their best pass rusher(aside from Ed if he plays like this) and you can't use Bernard on the blitz if you can't control the middle of the LOS.

 

And I do somewhat excuse the LB's and safeties some for being in preseason form because they basically didn't play behind this line in game action until Sunday and the Ravens clearly put a lot of thought into this game plan.  The Bills were reacting.   Whatever they might have drawn up they weren't able to get to it because Monken beat them to the punch.    That said,  the huge, untouched run gains by the Ravens weren't appreciably different than getting gashed by a few huge pass plays.   So by late in the game the Bills defense was still fresh.   Even Ed Oliver only played 35 snaps and it seemed like he was not coming off the field in the second half.

 

The bolded is SO important to remember. It's generally true of ALL LBs tbh, that they need the guys up front to keep them somewhat clean to truly shine. Even Ray Lewis got chewed up the year that Siragusa and Sam Adams departed. I know he got hurt, but there was public discord over the Ravens DL no longer occupying blockers the way it once had. Took the team a couple years to recalibrate and replace those big uglies. 

 

The Bills clearly do not have a true monster 1T who can command OL attention and therefore free up the 2nd level behind him. DaQuan Jones has had flashes in his Bills tenure, but more often than not now seems to be getting absolutely WASHED by double-teams and/or handled by single-teams. It's been an ongoing failing of McBeane to not have a stud next to Oliver all these years. We criticize Ed for being inconsistent and disappearing, but he's like THE guy OLs need to neutralize. Where are his teammates on the DL? 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

11 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

The bolded is SO important to remember. It's generally true of ALL LBs tbh, that they need the guys up front to keep them somewhat clean to truly shine. Even Ray Lewis got chewed up the year that Siragusa and Sam Adams departed. I know he got hurt, but there was public discord over the Ravens DL no longer occupying blockers the way it once had. Took the team a couple years to recalibrate and replace those big uglies. 

 

The Bills clearly do not have a true monster 1T who can command OL attention and therefore free up the 2nd level behind him. DaQuan Jones has had flashes in his Bills tenure, but more often than not now seems to be getting absolutely WASHED by double-teams and/or handled by single-teams. It's been an ongoing failing of McBeane to not have a stud next to Oliver all these years. We criticize Ed for being inconsistent and disappearing, but he's like THE guy OLs need to neutralize. Where are his teammates on the DL? 

 

 

It's crazy that they gave the disinterested Star Lotulelei a 5 year $50M contract to protect the DE-sized Edmunds but are trying to get by with smaller 1 techs with the narrow shouldered, safety-sized Bernard.   I greatly prefer what he brings to what Edmunds brought because turnovers and splash plays are so important in the game now.   With Poyer and Hyde gone he is really their only guy with a nose for the ball.   And LONG gone are the days when the Steelers and Rams met in a SB while being 1-2 in turnovers lost.    Those possessions are so critical now.   And it's always going to be hard to get him thru a potential 20 game season intact if he isn't clean.

[dakarider17]

I think this game shows how good this offense is and Brady can be a good OC when he doesn't over think it.  
Beginning of game, Bills go down the field on mostly scripted plays for the offense.  Then Brady starts to over think things and tries to determine  plays based too much on the defense and Bills seem to get bogged down.  Obviously offense has to adjust to the defense, but not if it takes them out of their strengths. 
Then in the 4th qtr. Brady was less concerned about the defense and let the offense go down the field.  The Bills offense can impose their will against any team. That's the mindset they need to have. Play to the Bills and Josh Allen's strengths more than to what the defense give you.

[BillsShredder83]

13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Well they played very little football this summer because McBeane were trying to get to opening day healthy.   And that's what it looks like when a talented, vengeance-fueled opponent brings it to a team that isn't anywhere near physically prepared for that level of intensity.   But late in the game they both came up with big plays recovering a fumble and stopping Zay Flowers for no gain.    Unfortunately, the Bills have been the primary offseason fixation of their next two vengeful opponents as well.   They don't have the luxury of easing into their schedule.   That's why they were playing football at practice yesterday instead of the usual.

^^^

I said the same thing but not as well as this.  Complaining Ed is out, I fully get, it sucks!!!  Blaming them for a hard practice, when its football, is a bad take.  I still prefer this approach to teams that let starters hit it hard in pre-season games!!!

[Captain_Quint]

On 9/9/2025 at 1:08 PM, PoundingDog said:

That's a whole discussion by itself. If Harbaugh was going for it, what do you think the best play they have to convert it? I bet both the Ravens and the Bills know it will be on the ground. I know Jackson hobbled a bit on the Oliver hit right before the play. But even it does not bother him, you can bet the Bills will stack up to the front, blitz with run awareness, double Flowers, one-on-one with everyone else. It is less than 50-50 chance to convert at that time if Harbaugh was not comfortable with putting the ball in the air. And the consequence of a failed conversion is high chance of loss: inside 2 minutes, one first down to running out of the clock and a field goal.

 

Conversely, if the Bills were in Ravens position, going for it would be the right play, just like Andy Reid would do for the Chiefs. You have reliable target for short area quickness targets, capable running back going to the edge, and a mobile QB.

After rewatching the game, if I'm Harbaugh there, you call time out and find a play where you throw it to Mark Andrews. Redemption for last year, and not a top offensive option anymore so a good chance he works himself open. 

[PoundingDog]

9 minutes ago, Captain_Quint said:

After rewatching the game, if I'm Harbaugh there, you call time out and find a play where you throw it to Mark Andrews. Redemption for last year, and not a top offensive option anymore so a good chance he works himself open. 

Good for a movie script. But I doubt Harbaugh wants to change his profession to a screenwriter, even as a reality TV show screenwriter, anytime soon.

[Coach Tuesday]

2 hours ago, PoundingDog said:

Good for a movie script. But I doubt Harbaugh wants to change his profession to a screenwriter, even as a reality TV show screenwriter, anytime soon.

It would be like calling a fake punt Damar Hamlin running play in the playoffs…

[BADOLBILZ]

On 9/11/2025 at 11:15 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

Oh I'm not saying they don't need a better 1 tech. I didn't like the Daquan contract when they did that before 2024 and it has played out exactly as I'd have predicted, overpaying for a declining talent. But whatever the reasons there is no excusing performances as bad as the linebackers and safeties put out there on Sunday and they are accountable for that. They were terrible. 

 

 

Yeah they were.....until the last few drives.  And I agree the Bernard extension was dumb.   Made no sense.   This is not a guy who is likely to start in the NFL for the length of his extension even.......he is almost inevitably going to get hurt enough times from bouncing around in that traffic and then the nose for the ball won't matter because he will become physically limited, IMO.   Even if he repeated his historic splash play season from a couple years ago not many teams were going to sign up for a MLB that size with a history of being too banged up late in the season.    The Bills weren't going to have to pay him more than they did, IMO so Beane just took a bad risk there like he did when he foolishly extended Eric Wood for 2018 back in summer of 2017 when there was basically ZERO chance he would leave Buffalo for numerous reasons..........and then ended up eating $10M when he failed a physical in January.