Can you imagine if Beane had done this (‘22 draft)…

[Mikie2times]

6 hours ago, Sojourner said:

Great point. And while there is elements when the coaching staff does this even if it isn’t routinely noticed, it seems to be a very linear way of draw defense as a whole. It’s system A, no ifs ands or buts. It has to be the exact type of player and if it’s not, the issue is forced or addressed solely by position rather than the best available talent. 
 

Drafting then becomes the issues I’m sure most have. There’s a few problems we are encountering because of this mindset and lack of foresight. Draft the best player available, not solely for a system or need. 
 

The same things have been the problems for a few seasons now; WR, DLine and Secondary. Thank goodness they hit on Benford cause that unit is a disaster without him. 

What I always liked about Belichick is he wasn't married to one way. Sure, his base was a 3-4 or some might say multiple, but if it meant playing a 4-3 he would or a 2-4-5 vs us in the 1990 Super Bowl. He looked at each situation, evaluated his players, evaluated the team he was facing, and designed a game plan for that specific week. He drafted football players over fits, knowing he would require a variety of skills. Most teams do not do this. But I feel like we are almost on the extreme version of not doing this. Overfitting to scheme, rigid in weekely schematic changes, and  predicatable for offenses to plan for.  

Edited August 26 by Mikie2times

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

What I always liked about Belichick is he wasn't married to one way. Sure, his base was a 3-4 or some might say multiple, but if it meant playing a 4-3 he would or a 2-4-5 vs us in the 1990 Super Bowl. He looked at each situation, evaluated his players, evaluated the team he was facing, and designed a game plan for that specific week. He drafted football players over fits, knowing he would require a variety of skills. Most teams do not do this. But I feel like we are almost on the extreme version of not doing this. Overfitting to scheme, rigid in weekely schematic changes, and  predicatable for offenses to plan for.  

 

I'm sorry the bolded is wrong. Belichick drafted guys who fitted his scheme and only guys who fitted his scheme - you had to be smart, but you had to be able to play his scheme. It was part of what sunk his drafting at the end. As NFL defenses changed to be smaller and faster and the college game followed suit Belichick got stuck drafting people for his scheme which often meant passing on superior talents. 

 

Yes, he had the ability to be multiple in the way he used his players, he is and always was a great football coach and strategist. But he was very rigid to his player prototypes. The Patriots had the smallest draft board in the league when he was there. I was told by someone pretty well connected that one year right at the end of the Brady era the Patriots had just 53 draftable players on their board because they had decided so many others were not suitable for the scheme. 

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, Rousseauisnoschmo said:

Entitled to what exactly? Just curious.

 

That they've suffered for a long time and "deserve" a Super Bowl Championship and that nothing less will make them happy.

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

14 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

We all want that Lombardi. But winning one won't change much around here because as soon as the celebrations end it'll be "now go get two." And we'll be miserable until we get #2....and so on.

 

Speak for yourself.

 

They win one, I can enter the hereafter in football bliss.

 

[Mat68]

They drafted a top 10 cb in 22.  Who cares when?

[Sierra Foothills]

43 minutes ago, BananaB said:

They ain’t significant until we see the results. Yeah they addressed it but they have been putting a lot into since they drafted Allen. It wasn’t until the Kincaid pick that they started putting an emphasis on O at draft time. 

 

It's inarguably a significant investment... we just don't know if it'll pay off yet.

 

It's like buying a lot of stock... we don't know the ROI but that doesn't change the fact that they invested heavily.

 

We're awaiting the return.

 

[Augie]

14 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

We all want that Lombardi. But winning one won't change much around here because as soon as the celebrations end it'll be "now go get two." And we'll be miserable until we get #2....and so on.

 

I’m quoting this because it’s true and because I can. Don’t kid yourself, this is exactly what will happen. 

[Rousseauisnoschmo]

23 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

That they've suffered for a long time and "deserve" a Super Bowl Championship and that nothing less will make them happy.

 

0-6 in finals between the Bills and Sabres in the 50 plus years Ive been following. If being satisfied with nothing less than a championship going forward makes me entitled then I guess Im entitled. 

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

As soon as they win the first one, they will be equally insufferable about getting the second one. They just think having zero SB victories makes it special and gives them an excuse. Count on it. Nobody is ever going to say “well, we won it all a couple years ago, so missing the playoffs this year is fine.” They want to swing big and go all in, unless they miss. Look at the people complaining about how predictable it was that old Von Miller got hurt. 

 

 

.

Wrong.

[Augie]

13 minutes ago, Rousseauisnoschmo said:

0-6 in finals between the Bills and Sabres in the 50 plus years Ive been following. If being satisfied with nothing less than a championship going forward makes me entitled then I guess Im entitled. 

 

Yes, indeed. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

15 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

I hate to say it but many Bills fans on this forum are spoiled.

 

I'd like to blame it on younger fans that don't remember all the misery of the Bills' history but even some of the older posters here are insufferably entitled.

 

***** you 

[Sierra Foothills]

21 minutes ago, Rousseauisnoschmo said:

0-6 in finals between the Bills and Sabres in the 50 plus years Ive been following. If being satisfied with nothing less than a championship going forward makes me entitled then I guess Im entitled. 

Wrong.

 

As I've already stated in this topic, I've been a Bills fan since 1968 (and a Sabres fan since their inception in 1970).

 

Do I/we deserve a championship?

 

"Deserve" is a word that hopes for a perfect and just world because it comes in the form of either reward or punishment. It could be argued that in a perfect and just world, that our many years of fandom and numerous finals disappointments should be rewarded with a championship... that we deserve one.

 

But we don't live in a perfect and just world so in that sense, the only thing we deserve is what we get.

 

Related but separate is the question of whether just a single championship will satisfy us...

 

I think it depends on the individual with those who can enjoy this era of Bills football likely to be satisfied with just one and those that are bitching, moaning, criticizing, and complaining unlikely to be satisfied.

 

JMO.

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said:

***** you 

 

The F word only has 4 letters... spell much?

 

😆

 

Edited August 26 by Sierra Foothills

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'm sorry the bolded is wrong. Belichick drafted guys who fitted his scheme and only guys who fitted his scheme - you had to be smart, but you had to be able to play his scheme. It was part of what sunk his drafting at the end. As NFL defenses changed to be smaller and faster and the college game followed suit Belichick got stuck drafting people for his scheme which often meant passing on superior talents. 

 

Yes, he had the ability to be multiple in the way he used his players, he is and always was a great football coach and strategist. But he was very rigid to his player prototypes. The Patriots had the smallest draft board in the league when he was there. I was told by someone pretty well connected that one year right at the end of the Brady era the Patriots had just 53 draftable players on their board because they had decided so many others were not suitable for the scheme. 

So what exactly did your well connected friend or you personally decipher, that was a Belichick scheme player? Every coach has players they like. That era had larger LB's. If he had a "fit" it was versailitly and brains. But he was always going to value talent and make the talent work with his gameplan which was modified weekly. Not only in the actual calls, but the core schemes themselves. We are signifigantly overfitted in comparison. We only pursue penetrating DL's and LB's. Man corners fail in this system. He did not overfit physical traits outside of his LB's at that time. But even with his LB's it was only his MLB he looked at for that traditional run stuffer which the entire league did for most his time in the NFL.  His OLB's were pass rushers.  If you have evidence that he only drafted pentrating players or something so physically speciifc at multiple levels of his defense across every player like Buffalo does, by all means, serve it up.   

[Fleezoid]

15 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

We all want that Lombardi. But winning one won't change much around here because as soon as the celebrations end it'll be "now go get two." And we'll be miserable until we get #2....and so on.

 

I know for certain, at least for me, it won't be like that. Of course you'd want to get 2. But having that 1, and that moment to remember, will make future losses much more palatable. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

As soon as they win the first one, they will be equally insufferable about getting the second one. They just think having zero SB victories makes it special and gives them an excuse. Count on it. Nobody is ever going to say “well, we won it all a couple years ago, so missing the playoffs this year is fine.” They want to swing big and go all in, unless they miss. Look at the people complaining about how predictable it was that old Von Miller got hurt. 

 

 

Some will. Some won't. For some there is that frustration borne of "just give me one" for others there is a more fundamental entitlement and a heavy dose of modern everything now culture. 

[RyanC883]

16 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

I hate to say it but many Bills fans on this forum are spoiled.

 

I'd like to blame it on younger fans that don't remember all the misery of the Bills' history but even some of the older posters here are insufferably entitled.

 

 

I have to disagree with that.  Having been a fan in the 90's, the droubt years, and now finally having the BEST Qb in the league but with subpar other weapons (WR, DL, etc.) is not spoiled, it's a total miss by the FO.  

 

 

[Sierra Foothills]

6 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

I have to disagree with that.  Having been a fan in the 90's, the droubt years, and now finally having the BEST Qb in the league but with subpar other weapons (WR, DL, etc.) is not spoiled, it's a total miss by the FO.

 

I'm not one of those who only criticize the team for their shortcomings and won't give them the credit for ending the drought and making the team a model franchise.

 

Every team makes mistakes but this organization is one of the finest in the NFL and it's been a very long time since we could say that.

 

[T.E.]

1 hour ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

That they've suffered for a long time and "deserve" a Super Bowl Championship and that nothing less will make them happy.

 

Well, the Bills and their fans kinda do deserve one at this point, right? And yes, the point of having a rooting interest is the hope that your team gets to the top one day.

 

It's just bizarre to me that some have this attitude that you should just be happy and content that they don't suck for a change.

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

So what exactly did your well connected friend or you personally decipher, that was a Belichick scheme player? Every coach has players they like. That era had larger LB's. If he had a "fit" it was versailitly and brains. But he was always going to value talent and make the talent work with his gameplan which was modified weekly. Not only in the actual calls, but the core schemes themselves. We are signifigantly overfitted in comparison. We only pursue penetrating DL's and LB's. Man corners fail in this system. He did not overfit physical traits outside of his LB's at that time. But even with his LB's it was only his MLB he looked at for that traditional run stuffer which the entire league did for most his time in the NFL.  His OLB's were pass rushers.  If you have evidence that he only drafted pentrating players or something so physically speciifc at multiple levels of his defense across every player like Buffalo does, by all means, serve it up.   

 

The Bill Belichick D was about size and run play at defensive tackle, big interior linebackers at the Will and the Mike, length at the outside backer positions (I mean by the end he was just drafting pretty much carbon copies of one another at that spot - Ronnie Perkins, Chase Winovich, Anfrenee Jennings - talk about physical prototype!) and then he liked really sticky aggressive corners and wasn't really bothered about size - he probably took as many smaller corners as big ones - and he liked safeties who were ball hawks, ideally who had played corner previously. 

 

He valued guys who played his way. Yes, he wanted smart football players, I don't dispute that at all. But he didn't draft coverage linebackers, he didn't draft 4-3 hand in the dirt defensive ends and he didn't big thumping safeties. They didn't suit his system he didn't draft them. You can choose not to believe it, that's your choice, but the Patriots had the smallest draft board in the league year after year after year. You had to be smart, you had to fit Bill's system and you had to love football. If you didn't tick all three boxes you were off the board - and that's before the normal injury and character red flags. 

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

Some fans might be this way, but most would be happy with one. At least the desperation to win one will be gone for all Bills fans. Of course I want them to win two, three and so forth but just give me one and I won't complain ever again. I will happily sit through a rebuild which will probably happen once 17 retires if they can just win one while he is our QB.

 

I base my take on what I see now, the frustration of not winning a Super Bowl. It's not very different from the frustration of the playoffs drought.

[MJS]

4 hours ago, Rousseauisnoschmo said:

Entitled to what exactly? Just curious.

To having a contending team every single year.