Looking back -- Davante Adams vs Amari Cooper

[dave mcbride]

Everything I read last season suggested that the Bills were in on the trade action for Davante Adams once it became clear how limited their receiving corps was. After Adams wound up with the Jets, they essentially settled for Cooper. A couple of questions: could they have made the addition of Adams work financially, or was that impossible? My recollection is that the Jets had a lot more space and wiggle room on the salary front, but obviously the Bills were a better team with a real shot at a SB--which would presumably make them more attractive to an elite player who hadn't reached a Super Bowl. Secondly, knowing what we know now, would you have given up more -- a second, say, rather than a third -- to obtain Adams? He had the connection with Rogers, but the Raiders were always going to take the best deal they could. I am of the belief that he was and is a significantly better player than Cooper (who was a good player during his prime, mind you) and showed as much last year: 85 catches for 1,063 yards and 8 TDs in only 14 games. Adams played well for the Jets, and I think he's the sort of player that might have given the Bills the extra juice they needed to outscore KC and win the game. Cooper certainly wasn't that guy last season. 

 

I know it's water under the bridge and hindsight is 20/20, but I've been thinking about it lately. 

[Alphadawg7]

Adams wanted to go to the Jets and Coopers contract was much easier to take on.  I don't think this was ever an option.

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Adams wanted to go to the Jets and Coopers contract was much easier to take on.  I don't think this was ever an option.

Sure, but Adams didn't have total control over his destination and moreover he presumably wanted to win a championship. The issue is that he's a better player, and the Bills settled for the lesser player. Should they have gone all out given that they were clearly in a SB window? I realize that it may have been too difficult from a financial standpoint.

Edited August 21 by dave mcbride

[Alphadawg7]

17 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Sure, but Adams didn't have total control over his destination and moreover he presumably wanted to win a championship. The issue is that he's a better player, and the Bills settled for the lesser player. Should they have gone all out given that they were clearly in a SB window? I realize that it may have been too difficult from a financial standpoint.

 

Just a player got traded doesn't mean it was an option for us.  Adamas wanted to go to the Jets, he had a good relationship with the Raiders, they tried the Jets first and got a deal done.

 

He wasn't really an option for us

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Just a player got traded doesn't mean it was an option for us.  Adamas wanted to go to the Jets, he had a good relationship with the Raiders, they tried the Jets first and got a deal done.

 

He wasn't really an option for us

The Bills were in on the trade and discussed it with the Raiders, so it was a possibility, at least in theory. And Adams did not have a good relationship with the Raiders. There were reports that they thought he was using his injury to get out and he complained about the offense too. Most importantly, he was NOT happy about them dumping Derek Carr - the reason why he chose to go to Vegas in the first place: https://www.si.com/nfl/raiders/las-vegas-davante-adams-los-angeles-rams-sean-mcvay.

[Doc Brown]

35 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Everything I read last season suggested that the Bills were in on the trade action for Davante Adams once it became clear how limited their receiving corps was. After Adams wound up with the Jets, they essentially settled for Cooper. A couple of questions: could they have made the addition of Adams work financially, or was that impossible? My recollection is that the Jets had a lot more space and wiggle room on the salary front, but obviously the Bills were a better team with a real shot at a SB--which would presumably make them more attractive to an elite player who hadn't reached a Super Bowl. Secondly, knowing what we know now, would you have given up more -- a second, say, rather than a third -- to obtain Adams? He had the connection with Rogers, but the Raiders were always going to take the best deal they could. I am of the belief that he was and is a significantly better player than Cooper (who was a good player during his prime, mind you) and showed as much last year: 85 catches for 1,063 yards and 8 TDs in only 14 games. Adams played well for the Jets, and I think he's the sort of player that might have given the Bills the extra juice they needed to outscore KC and win the game. Cooper certainly wasn't that guy last season. 

 

I know it's water under the bridge and hindsight is 20/20, but I've been thinking about it lately. 

Cooper only counted $806k towards the cap.  Adams would've been $11.6m.  We were tight against the cap like always and don't even know if it was possible to create that much money in restructuring just to get that trade through.

[Alphadawg7]

57 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills were in on the trade and discussed it with the Raiders, so it was a possibility, at least in theory. And Adams did not have a good relationship with the Raiders. There were reports that they thought he was using his injury to get out and he complained about the offense too. Most importantly, he was NOT happy about them dumping Derek Carr - the reason why he chose to go to Vegas in the first place: https://www.si.com/nfl/raiders/las-vegas-davante-adams-los-angeles-rams-sean-mcvay.

 

Where are you getting we were in on trade discussions?  Internet reports?  Because Beane made it clear they were after Cooper long before we got him and tried multiple times to get him.

 

Beane publicly said they reached out to the Browns early on and they were not interested.  They kept calling, he was their target the entire time and Beane specifically stated it was Coopers contract on why they targeted him because they couldn't afford anything else.  

 

There are rumors and people claiming the Bills are in on all kinds of players that aren't true.  There were rumors flying the Bills were trying to move up to get on of the big 3 in MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze in which Beane laughed that no one called him about moving all the way down to his pick and how he also never called anyone as they were looking to move down not up.  

 

So no disrespect bud, but I don't personally believe the Bills ever tried to trade for Adams as everything from our literal cap situation and Beanes specific comments about the trade all suggest Cooper was their target the whole time.  Doesn't mean I am right, but I am just saying I really don't think Adams was ever at any point an option or choice where they chose Cooper over Adams.  

 

And for the record, I was all for trying to trade for Adams, just don't think he was ever on the table for us.  

Edited August 21 by Alphadawg7

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Sure, but Adams didn't have total control over his destination and moreover he presumably wanted to win a championship. The issue is that he's a better player, and the Bills settled for the lesser player. Should they have gone all out given that they were clearly in a SB window? I realize that it may have been too difficult from a financial standpoint.

I don’t think being a better player was the end all be all.  Iirc Adams contract made it more difficult for the Bills…. While Coopers contract was the key selling point

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Where are you getting we were in on trade discussions?  Internet reports?  Because Beane made it clear they were after Cooper long before we got him and tried multiple times to get him.

 

Beane publicly said they reached out to the Browns early on and they were not interested.  They kept calling, he was their target the entire time and Beane specifically stated it was Coopers contract on why they targeted him because they couldn't afford anything else.  

 

There are rumors and people claiming the Bills are in on all kinds of players that aren't true.  There were rumors flying the Bills were trying to move up to get on of the big 3 in MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze in which Beane laughed that no one called him about moving all the way down to his pick and how he also never called anyone as they were looking to move down not up.  

 

So no disrespect bud, but I don't personally believe the Bills ever tried to trade for Adams as everything from our literal cap situation and Beanes specific comments about the trade all suggest Cooper was their target the whole time.  Doesn't mean I am right, but I am just saying I really don't think Adams was ever at any point an option or choice where they chose Cooper over Adams.  

 

And for the record, I was all for trying to trade for Adams, just don't think he was ever on the table for us.  

The D and C had a story about it. Also, OF COURSE Beane is going to say that afterward. But he's no dummy - and there's no way he could believe that Cooper was a better solution to the Bills' WR problems than Adams. To reiterate, Adams is clearly the better player. It's not debatable.

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I don’t think being a better player was the end all be all.  Iirc Adams contract made it more difficult for the Bills…. While Coopers contract was the key selling point

Yeah, I realize that. I was just wondering whether their was a financial path to obtaining Adams. Maybe not, and I'm not one of those people who believe the cap is a fiction (it isn't). Ultimately, I was just thinking about what the eventual outcome would have been with Adams playing the X rather than Cooper. I think they would have beaten KC. 

Edited August 21 by dave mcbride

[thenorthremembers]

I think the Bills wanted Adams.  Adams didnt want the Bills.  He literally called the Bills fans the worst in the NFL. 

[GoBills808]

cooper could have done more here. he had some left. they just refused to incorporate him for whatever reason

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The D and C had a story about it. Also, OF COURSE Beane is going to say that afterward. But he's no dummy - and there's no way he could believe that Cooper was a better solution to the Bills' WR problems than Adams. To reiterate, Adams is clearly the better player. It's not debatable.

Yeah, I realize that. I was just wondering whether their was a financial path to obtaining Adams. Maybe not, and I'm not one of those people who believe the cap is a fiction (it isn't). Ultimately, I was just thinking about what the eventual outcome would have been with Adams playing the X rather than Cooper. I think they would have beaten KC. 

 

Never said Cooper was the better player.  I said he was their target and the contract was specifically stated as why he was the target.  Sorry bud, but the D and C and all kinds of media claim we make offers all the time that arent true.  

 

So no disrespect, there is no credible evidence we ever tried to get Adams, or that it was a choice of who they like more Adams or Cooper.  So again, you are free to your own opinions, and its all good, but IMHO there is almost no chance at all Adams was actually ever realistically in play due to the differences in contract.  

Edited August 21 by Alphadawg7

[bigduke6]

honestly surprised how fast Coop fell off the cliff.  dont think either player was worth it last season. 

[RoscoeParrish]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Secondly, knowing what we know now, would you have given up more -- a second, say, rather than a third -- to obtain Adams?

100%
 

a second for an older productive player vs a third for a guy who is on his last stop before out of the league?

[billsfan89]

Adams had more left in the tank but the cost for Adams was steeper cap wise whereas Cooper was much easier to add to the cap. Overall, I think the Bills made the right move at the time, in retrospect maybe the premium for Adams was worth it. I can't blame them too much as they were targeting Adams and it just didn't go their way and they pivoted to a smart option. 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, bigduke6 said:

honestly surprised how fast Coop fell off the cliff.  dont think either player was worth it last season. 

No one cared because it was the Jets, but Adams was GREAT late last season. In the final five games of the season, he had 36 receptions, 510 yards, and 6 TDs. Extrapolated over 17 games, that's 122 receptions, 1,734 yards, and 20 TDs.  

1 hour ago, RoscoeParrish said:

100%
 

a second for an older productive player vs a third for a guy who is on his last stop before out of the league?

Agreed, and he was more than productive -- he was really good still.

[machine gun kelly]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

I don’t think being a better player was the end all be all.  Iirc Adams contract made it more difficult for the Bills…. While Coopers contract was the key selling point

Exactly.  Cooper was pennies at $800k.

[BillsFanForever19]

7 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills were in on the trade and discussed it with the Raiders, so it was a possibility, at least in theory. And Adams did not have a good relationship with the Raiders. There were reports that they thought he was using his injury to get out and he complained about the offense too. Most importantly, he was NOT happy about them dumping Derek Carr - the reason why he chose to go to Vegas in the first place: https://www.si.com/nfl/raiders/las-vegas-davante-adams-los-angeles-rams-sean-mcvay.

 

The other issue is that the picks that were being offered by the Jets were better picks than we could offer.

 

The Jets sent a Round 3 Pick (#92) with conditions in the trade that could turn it into a Round 2 Pick (#42).

 

Even if we matched the Rounds in the trade, they were still lesser Picks. It would have been a Round 3 Pick (#94) with conditions that could it into a Round 2 Pick (either #56 or #62).

 

To beat their offer, we would have had to straight up offer either #56 or #62. Even then, since NYJ put in conditions to make it a 2nd anyways, there's no telling that they wouldn't have countered our offer and just straight up offered #42.

 

That would have been game, set, match - just like the offer that they got him with. The Jets wanted him and had better picks to acquire him that we couldn't match. 

 

And that's not even taking the contracts into account. Cooper we were able to easily make work. Adams would have taken a LOT of work to fit in.

 

All this to say you're oversimplifying matters by a LOT by making it just a decision of Cooper or Adams and that we made the wrong choice. Cooper was an option, Adams really wasn't once the Jets got involved.

Edited August 22 by BillsFanForever19

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

7 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Everything I read last season suggested that the Bills were in on the trade action for Davante Adams once it became clear how limited their receiving corps was. After Adams wound up with the Jets, they essentially settled for Cooper. A couple of questions: could they have made the addition of Adams work financially, or was that impossible? My recollection is that the Jets had a lot more space and wiggle room on the salary front, but obviously the Bills were a better team with a real shot at a SB--which would presumably make them more attractive to an elite player who hadn't reached a Super Bowl. Secondly, knowing what we know now, would you have given up more -- a second, say, rather than a third -- to obtain Adams? He had the connection with Rogers, but the Raiders were always going to take the best deal they could. I am of the belief that he was and is a significantly better player than Cooper (who was a good player during his prime, mind you) and showed as much last year: 85 catches for 1,063 yards and 8 TDs in only 14 games. Adams played well for the Jets, and I think he's the sort of player that might have given the Bills the extra juice they needed to outscore KC and win the game. Cooper certainly wasn't that guy last season. 

 

I know it's water under the bridge and hindsight is 20/20, but I've been thinking about it lately. 

Totally bizarre that they gave up a 3rd round pick and didn’t even entertain keeping him beyond last season. I mean NO team wants to give him a chance this year. Did he just hit the wall or what ? 

[BillsFanForever19]

28 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Totally bizarre that they gave up a 3rd round pick and didn’t even entertain keeping him beyond last season. I mean NO team wants to give him a chance this year. Did he just hit the wall or what ? 

 

There's been anonymous source scuttlebutt that he's "done". Implications that he's checked out. Which would explain why we didn't look to bring him back and why he's still on the street.