Does there need to be a rethinking of the basic D?

[Mat68]

Imo the staff did a good job of putting players on islands.  Guys fighting for roster spots or roles in sub packages.  The spring(shirt short) darlings got full run and most faltered.  I think going into game 3 the battles are nearing a close like it should.  Not sure much can happen now to change the order of the depth chart. Curious if Mcdermott plays the starters like a traditional game 3 with the extra week leading up to week 1.  With the bottom players already sinking or swimming.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

As the leader of the anti-McD contingent on here this is going to sound odd. But the scheme is not nearly as big a problem as the personnel.

My main issue has always been the lack of size in the front 7. All across the front 7 they are outmuscled. Look at Eagles DL compared to the Bills. It's a joke. Sadly the only guy that had size was Edmunds and he had the instincts of a dung beetle. 

The other issues obviously is that Beane and McDermott have consistently failed to find a dominant pass rusher. They failed to get Miller a year early.  The draft has mostly been a disappointment.  Oliver and Rousseau struggle to be average starters in the NFL. 

They need a dominant pass rusher. There are ways to get one, if Beane is willing to mortgage the future. 

[TurfToeJam]

4 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

The problem is as athletes, our guys got the crap beat out of them.  They didn't win ther 1 on 1's very often at all.  

This

[Dunkirk Donski]

4 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

As the leader of the anti-McD contingent on here this is going to sound odd. But the scheme is not nearly as big a problem as the personnel.

My main issue has always been the lack of size in the front 7. All across the front 7 they are outmuscled. Look at Eagles DL compared to the Bills. It's a joke. Sadly the only guy that had size was Edmunds and he had the instincts of a dung beetle. 

The other issues obviously is that Beane and McDermott have consistently failed to find a dominant pass rusher. They failed to get Miller a year early.  The draft has mostly been a disappointment.  Oliver and Rousseau struggle to be average starters in the NFL. 

They need a dominant pass rusher. There are ways to get one, if Beane is willing to mortgage the future. 

Rousseau struggles to be an average starter???  Is this rage bait or do you need a few minutes in time out?  

[billsfan89]

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

As the leader of the anti-McD contingent on here this is going to sound odd. But the scheme is not nearly as big a problem as the personnel.

My main issue has always been the lack of size in the front 7. All across the front 7 they are outmuscled. Look at Eagles DL compared to the Bills. It's a joke. Sadly the only guy that had size was Edmunds and he had the instincts of a dung beetle. 

The other issues obviously is that Beane and McDermott have consistently failed to find a dominant pass rusher. They failed to get Miller a year early.  The draft has mostly been a disappointment.  Oliver and Rousseau struggle to be average starters in the NFL. 

They need a dominant pass rusher. There are ways to get one, if Beane is willing to mortgage the future. 

 

The lack of size on the D-line has been an issue. But I do think this off-season they made an attempt to address it. Bosa, Hoecht, and Jackson are all bigger guys off the edge. Walker is a big DT and while Larry O and Sanders aren't "big" they are both known to be good run defenders. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

 

The lack of size on the D-line has been an issue. But I do think this off-season they made an attempt to address it. Bosa, Hoecht, and Jackson are all bigger guys off the edge. Walker is a big DT and while Larry O and Sanders aren't "big" they are both known to be good run defenders. 

Oh I 100% agree. Beane is trying and hopefully Bosa stays healthy.  

3 minutes ago, Dunkirk Donski said:

Rousseau struggles to be an average starter???  Is this rage bait or do you need a few minutes in time out?  

Go ahead Take the bait. I will start. Over under - Did he fall down more times in the championship game than he had total sacks last year? He is terribly inconsistent.  He is not a bad player but he is not great. Thus average. 

[JP51]

2 hours ago, Fleezoid said:

 

I've been completely on the fence with respect to McDermott. I've thought, at least he has this team competitive every year. At the same time, I can also see the criticism about the lack of playoff success. And I've always been critical of his soft defensive stance. But after last night, and I know it's just preseason, but I'm absolutely leaning toward McDermott's defensive philosophy is not getting it done. They can't keep letting teams stay on the field and burn clock. 

Here is the other thing... If you ever had a chance to play an aggressive defense, its when you have an offense that scores at will... what they are doing isnt working... if they beat you they beat you... let them do it in 2 minutes not 7.... cause they are beating you anyways...  we literally forced the least punt on defense in the entire league tied with Carolina... that is atrocious. 

[YattaOkasan]

16 minutes ago, JP51 said:

Here is the other thing... If you ever had a chance to play an aggressive defense, its when you have an offense that scores at will... what they are doing isnt working... if they beat you they beat you... let them do it in 2 minutes not 7.... cause they are beating you anyways...  we literally forced the least punt on defense in the entire league tied with Carolina... that is atrocious. 

Isnt that what they did last year?  They had the highest takeaway percent.  Problem is some teams chose to grind them out in response, but they most definitely played high variance defense last year.  I would say offensively they played very good ball control game script type offense (Josh converting 3rd downs made this effective).  So youre happy with the scheme or you just want better?  

[NewEra]

We won’t have a clue until we’ve played some regular season games. 
 

Things that could develop into a problem:

-Injuries- ruiner if certain players get hurt

-Bishop- doesn’t look like he’s playing free, too much thinking, not enough reacting.  
-Tre White getting picked on- why throw at Benford when you don’t have to?  I don’t think Benford will get much action this year. Especially on 3rd downs.

- Defending screens-  

 

If we can get into the top 12 getting off the field on 3rd down, I think we’ll be in great shape.  Big IF   

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

7 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I am not the sort to panic over a couple preseason games but I have noticed that, in both games so far, the quick pass has been pretty successful.  It nullified the rush for the most part, and sitting in zone allowed WRs to get open in a regular basis.  So I’m wondering if this might force a switch from a zone dominant scheme more to a man concept.  Many here are much better scholars of strategy than me so please weigh in.

I’ve been saying this for years. I hate this bend don’t break crap. It wreaks of Dick Jauron who’s were statistically good, but didn’t strike fear in any real offenses. I wish we could go back to that Jim Schwartz D, man. That defense was downright vicious and didn’t play scared. 

[GASabresIUFan]

The melt down on this board over a pre-season loss to the Bears would be sad if it wasn't so funny and misplaced.  They lost last year 33-6 to the Bears.  Didn't we go 0-4 one year in preseason and play in the Super Bowl.  

 

Let me know how they do when the starters play.

[<bills4life>]

12 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I’ve been saying this for years. I hate this bend don’t break crap. It wreaks of Dick Jauron who’s were statistically good, but didn’t strike fear in any real offenses. I wish we could go back to that Jim Schwartz D, man. That defense was downright vicious and didn’t play scared. 

Yup. Play not to lose instead of playing to win. Most if not all dominant defenses throughout nfl history have been attack style defense that dictate the game of play and disguise coverages. That is how you limit great qbs and force them into making mistakes and getting them out of rhythm . This bend but don’t break, prevent, complimentary football crap is beyond infuriating. In all my years of watching football I have never seen a team so consistently give up 3rd and longs for a 1st down. I use to love dick lebeaus style of defense. You never knew what was coming and when. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

23 minutes ago, NewEra said:

We won’t have a clue until we’ve played some regular season games. 
 

Things that could develop into a problem:

-Injuries- ruiner if certain players get hurt

-Bishop- doesn’t look like he’s playing free, too much thinking, not enough reacting.  
-Tre White getting picked on- why throw at Benford when you don’t have to?  I don’t think Benford will get much action this year. Especially on 3rd downs.

- Defending screens-  

 

If we can get into the top 12 getting off the field on 3rd down, I think we’ll be in great shape.  Big IF   

 

Injuries happen - but the player you see today isn't the player you necessarily see tomorrow

Bishop - Mistakes happen, in that situation it was a misstep on a switch release that he bungled.  Should NOT have been a TD either wya.

Tre - he's always been a good zone defender and tackler.  You also have hairston available down the line if he isn't up to snuff.

Screens - This is often cleaned up in the film room

[Mat68]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

The melt down on this board over a pre-season loss to the Bears would be sad if it wasn't so funny and misplaced.  They lost last year 33-6 to the Bears.  Didn't we go 0-4 one year in preseason and play in the Super Bowl.  

 

Let me know how they do when the starters play.

Putting the guys fighting for roster spots in sink or swim positions.  Yes, they wanted the players to rise to the moment and win the game.  More importantly they know what they have and dont have in some players.  At this point that is more important.   

[GASabresIUFan]

1 minute ago, Mat68 said:

Putting the guys fighting for roster spots in sink or swim positions.  Yes, they wanted the players to rise to the moment and win the game.  More importantly they know what they have and dont have in some players.  At this point that is more important.   

Right.  It was meaningless game with depth players, vanilla play calling and a vanilla D scheme.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, &lt;bills4life&gt; said:

Yup. Play not to lose instead of playing to win. Most if not all dominant defenses throughout nfl history have been attack style defense that dictate the game of play and disguise coverages. That is how you limit great qbs and force them into making mistakes and getting them out of rhythm . This bend but don’t break, prevent, complimentary football crap is beyond infuriating. In all my years of watching football I have never seen a team so consistently give up 3rd and longs for a 1st down. I use to love dick lebeaus style of defense. You never knew what was coming and when. 

 

I think you can play bend but dont break - but you need to be able to have the aggressive defense in your back pocket.  Defenses keeping things in front of them gives you more chances for turnovers, penalties, sacks, and other types of drive killers.  What Buffalo needs to better prepare for is the changeups - the mahomes/reid tricky looks, the power run game of baltimore, etc.  

 

 

[YattaOkasan]

10 minutes ago, &lt;bills4life&gt; said:

Yup. Play not to lose instead of playing to win. Most if not all dominant defenses throughout nfl history have been attack style defense that dictate the game of play and disguise coverages. That is how you limit great qbs and force them into making mistakes and getting them out of rhythm . This bend but don’t break, prevent, complimentary football crap is beyond infuriating. In all my years of watching football I have never seen a team so consistently give up 3rd and longs for a 1st down. I use to love dick lebeaus style of defense. You never knew what was coming and when. 

Correct they were not playing to win yesterday.  

[<bills4life>]

4 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I think you can play bend but dont break - but you need to be able to have the aggressive defense in your back pocket.  Defenses keeping things in front of them gives you more chances for turnovers, penalties, sacks, and other types of drive killers.  What Buffalo needs to better prepare for is the changeups - the mahomes/reid tricky looks, the power run game of baltimore, etc.  

 

 

Which I do give McDermott props for in the playoffs last year. I will say if they gave Henry the ball 40 times, it may have been a different outcome. 

[blacklabel]

6 hours ago, MPL said:

Last night’s d-line consisted of 3 rookies and 1 2nd-year players — all of which are backups or players considered to be projects — against a Bears starting offense that had something to prove in Ben Johnson’s first home preseason game. These are the first game reps these guys have played against nfl starters. Of course there was no effective pass rush. Dane Jackson was your CB1 on the night against DJ Moore. Let’s all relax. Last night showed nothing. 

 

Whoa whoa whoa there, pardner! Just who in the blue heck do youse think youse are waltzing into town like this with your....your based takes?! You think you can just come in here and *gasp* make sense?!

 

I've only one question for you, fella. How dare youse? I mean, how diggity dog dare youse, fella?

 

We'll thank you kindly to get back on your horse and keep it moving onto the next town, alright? 

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to prepare for my fourth panic attack of the day. 

[<bills4life>]

1 minute ago, YattaOkasan said:

Correct they were not playing to win yesterday.  

It is preseason though. Maybe they don’t want to show their hand and come the season unleash an attack style defense with more man coverage when needed. I would love to see more scheme versatility.