WGR Discussing McD's job security

[GoBills808]

40 minutes ago, Logic said:

I'm curious:

How many Bills playoff losses do most Bills fans think the Bills "should have" won?

For me, I think it's two. The 13 seconds game and the 2024 AFCCG.

Every other playoff exit was justified, in my opinion. Meaning I feel the Bills simply weren't as good as the other team and/or didn't "deserve" to win.

But that's at least one, and potentially two Super Bowl appearances right there. Fumbling away one or two Super Bowl opportunities is a serious issue.

Is two the consensus for number of playoff losses the Bills should've won?

The Bengals game

 

they were missing their entire starting oline on the road. a good staff finds a way to win that one

[PonyBoy]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

Nick Wright's comments really hit me this morning.

He showed a list of the 30 QBs in NFL history with 6+ playoff wins. 

29 of them have appeared in a Super Bowl. 1 has not, and it's Josh Allen.

He also showed the list of head coaches with 6+ playoff wins to never make a Super Bowl. It's just McDermott and Chuck Knox. That's it.

I have to be honest...it gave me pause. It made me think. I'm not sure how many more "lose to the Chiefs by 3 points in a divisional round or AFCCG" game I can take. At some point, as hard as it is to contemplate, a head coach change would have to be considered.

The problem, as I see it, is I'm not so sure I have faith in Pegula and co to pick an upgrade at head coach, let alone one that gets along as synergetically with Brandon Beane. 

I'm firmly somewhere in between "one or two more years of playoff exits in KC should mean the axe for McD" and "Be careful what you wish for, look at the Sabres".

Ugh.

 

The Allen & Knox stat is tough. Buffalo sports teams and players have so much infamy attached to them.

We need a break...

[Mikie2times]

20 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

It's weird but McD's career here reminds me a lot of young Andy Reid in Philly.  Great teams, came up short year after year in the playoffs and Reid took a lot of flack for it and eventually got fired.  The Eagles did win some Super Bowls but it took awhile post Reid and Reid obviously did too but it took awhile post Eagles.

 

He makes me crazy sometimes, but I think we need to ride it out.  If you say fire him I need to know who your hire is.  It can't be we will see who is out there. Lord Terrence will foul that up.  There needs to be a dead lock hire out there to get.  Right now there is only one dead-lock hire that is both gettable and an upgrade from what we have and that, ladies and gentleman, is the Dark Lord himself.

Sometimes I wonder if this team has an edge to it. That quote "change means movement, movement means friction". I have seen so many situations in life where a very contentious or nasty situation led to an extremely positive outcome longer term. I truly believe change and friction go hand and hand. Which is my concern with where we are at now. Our team is kumbaya, they know every second what to expect from McD. We are as processed as process can be.

 

We are probably talking about winning the AFC East championship in camp. That's step one. Once we accomplish that, then we can move onto bigger goals. But at this stage we aren't a team that hasn't been to the playoffs in nearly 20 years. Which to me is who the "process" is meant for. The "process" is predictable. What isn't predictable is a guy walking in who the team doesn't know, hasn't seen. Saying you still don't have this ring and I'm not going to BS around. That's what this is about. We are going for this ring, this will be the year you win it, and anything short of that is not a success. Sure, that coach will burn out fast. But I think this team needs a lightning rod. It has no conflict, friction, and shockingly, comes up short in the most difficult moments. Failures which I think have set up camp in players minds. Playing not to lose in those moments and not playing to win. Like the Houston Oilers with Warren Moon. 

 

These are the reasons you make a coaching change. It's not about finding somebody who is better. 

Edited August 8 by Mikie2times

[RoscoeParrish]

36 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think the DL got too much flack in that game.  Mahomes got the ball out quickly because he knew where to go with it pre-snap.

It was pitch and catch all game.

It just seems to be the wrong move, no matter what we do unfortunately. 
 

We came out with more man in 2024 and it was still pitch and catch.

 

28 minutes ago, Logic said:

Thanks for those numbers.

If there's a third "should've won" game, that's definitely it.

So either 2 or 3 games the Bills probably should have won. 2 or 3 times they may have made it to the Super Bowl.

If you asked even the most ardent Josh Allen hater how many Lombardis he'd have on his resume if he'd been to 3 Super Bowls, I bet even the harshest critics would say "at least one".

That’s kind of the issue.

 

the one game that I think everyone agrees we probably didn’t deserve to win is 2020. Sure we had a 9-0 lead early but that was a SB champ vs a WC appearing team that just won their first and second playoff games.

 

You can argue, strongly imo, the Bills shouldn’t have lost to the Chiefs in the playoffs since Josh’s first AFCCG. 

21 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Sometimes I wonder if this team has an edge to it. That quote "change means movement, movement means friction". I have seen so many situations in life where a very contentious or nasty situation led to an extremely positive outcome longer term. I truly believe change and friction go hand and hand. Which is my concern with where we are at now. Our team is kumbaya, they know every second what to expect from McD. We are as processed as process can be.

 

We are probably talking about winning the AFC East championship in camp. That's step one. Once we accomplish that, then we can move onto bigger goals. But at this stage we aren't a team that hasn't been to the playoffs in nearly 20 years. Which to me is who the "process" is meant for. The "process" is predictable. What isn't predictable is a guy walking in who the team doesn't know, hasn't seen. Saying you still don't have this ring and I'm not going to BS around. That's what this is about. We are going for this ring, this will be the year you win it, and anything short of that is not a success. Sure, that coach will burn out fast. But I think this team needs a lightning rod. It has no conflict, friction, and shockingly, comes up short in the most difficult moments. Failures which I think have set up camp in players minds. Playing not to lose in those moments and not playing to win. Like the Houston Oilers with Warren Moon. 

 

These are the reasons you make a coaching change. It's not about finding somebody who is better. 

It’s basically just the Lou Amarumo argument imo.

 

Is Lou a better defensive mind than Sean McDermott? No.

 

is he a better head coach and leader of men? I’ll say probably not.

 

But despite being likely worse at all the things we like about McD, he has success against Mahomes and Reid that we would kill to have. 

[GoBills808]

😂😂I think I spotted him wearing one of those 'playoff caliber' tshirts on Hard Knocks

 

defensive HC who despite being 4th longest tenured HC in the NFL still somehow can't field a playoff caliber defense lol I mean the jokes write themselves 

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

Was listening to WGR yesterday and someone called into ask what Schoop and Bulldog would need to see happen for McD to get fired after this season.  There answer and reasoning honestly surprised me, and also seemed like a course correction from prior years from them.

 

They both stated that the Bills switching to the new stadium next year should prevent McD from being fired under most circumstances, even missing the playoffs.  They both stated that a catastrophic PR issue or the entire team falling off a cliff could change things, but that's about it.

 

I know we have a thread about McD every year,  and even I've been thinking about this more since last years playoff exit.  To me, if we get knocked out of the playoffs again and the defense is the main reason why (giving up 25+ points again), then I think it's time to move on from McD.  I'm not a McD hater by any means.  I will always be grateful for the culture he's brought to this team and the winning we've experienced since pulling us from the drought.  However, if our D (his specialty) fails us again, then I feel very confident to say that McD has taken us as far as he can as a coach.  It doesn't mean he's a bad coach, just means he's not a Superbowl caliber coach.  I know McD would get hired almost immediately by another team that is looking to recreate the Buffalo success and we would be taking a chance on anyone else.  But I also believe we would have our choice of HC candidates.  

 

I guess I'm just at the point where these playoffs losses haven't been talent related so much as they've been outcoached and outschemed.  We put so much focus on the defensive roster over the years, especially this year, that it's time to put up or shut up.  If not, then we are just defining insanity by running it back.

 

The stadium excuse was just strange to me.  Why would that be a factor as the stadium is new to McD too.  

 

What do we love more than winning football games? Drama! We want drama. We want controversy. We want something to get cranked over. Winning 12-13 games a year is boring. Winning the division is boring. Let's fire the coach who oversaw the greatest stretch of Bills football, next to the Super Bowl run. Because we all know glorious success is just one pull on the slot machine away.

[BuffaloBill]

3 hours ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

To me it really depends on how the defense plays this season 

 

If it's more of the same, beats bad QBs, gets destroyed by good ones 

 

You have to seriously think about moving on

 

Last season legitimately gave me hope about his coaching as previously I've wanted him gone since the Houston playoff game

 

 

The Bills have quietly made some potentially significant changes on D this year. The proof will be in the results but philosophically it looks like they may be more open to man coverage and 5 man rush concepts.

 

I give McDermott credit for not sitting still.

 

With that said, If the Bills get exited in the playoffs again it will be a very tough pill to swallow. May depend on overall record and how they lose but I don’t think McDemott is absolutely secure.

[Mikie2times]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

What do we love more than winning football games? Drama! We want drama. We want controversy. We want something to get cranked over. Winning 12-13 games a year is boring. Winning the division is boring. Let's fire the coach who oversaw the greatest stretch of Bills football, next to the Super Bowl run. Because we all know glorious success is just one pull on the slot machine away.

I don't think anybody wants drama. Perhaps a championship? Do you think Allen wouldn't have gotten to an AFC championship game by now or made multiple playoff appearances by now? The weight you give McD for that result is not the weight others give him. Good teams have moved on from success and won championships plenty of times. Assuming that is the wrong path and doing so in a sarcastic way is why this is such a turd conversation. You really have no idea, nor do I for that matter. 

Edited August 8 by Mikie2times

[SectionC3]

59 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

The Bengals game

 

they were missing their entire starting oline on the road. a good staff finds a way to win that one

There were extenuating circumstances there.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

There were extenuating circumstances there.  

elaborate

 

18 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

What do we love more than winning football games? Drama! We want drama. We want controversy. We want something to get cranked over. Winning 12-13 games a year is boring. Winning the division is boring. Let's fire the coach who oversaw the greatest stretch of Bills football, next to the Super Bowl run. Because we all know glorious success is just one pull on the slot machine away.

Do you think any team with our current QB attached to it is going to fade to mediocrity?

 

[Búfalo Blanco]

He should've been gone years ago... The Reid's and McVay's of the league always outcoach him when it counts. He'll lose again, unless Allen somehow puts the entire team on his shoulders and produces a miracle...

 

Absolute tragedy, since we could have an offensive genius at the helm.

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

He already did

I can't find any links to the Sabres firing Kevin Adams

[GoBills808]

Just now, SectionC3 said:

There were extenuating circumstances there.  

There always will be

[T.E.]

1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

There were extenuating circumstances there.  

An issue is that the team doesn’t seem to be terribly resilient in important moments from a mental standpoint, and that's a direct mirroring of the coaching staff.

 

There is something missing there - I don't know if it's not having an extra gear, or lacking a sense of urgency, or that they can't compartmentalize, or are just plain soft - but something is off in that department.

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Búfalo Blanco said:

He should've been gone years ago... The Reid's and McVay's of the league always outcoach him when it counts. He'll lose again, unless Allen somehow puts the entire team on his shoulders and produces a miracle...

 

Absolute tragedy, since we could have an offensive genius at the helm.

 

😂😂baby steps baby steps

Forget Reid and Mcvay, he got outcoached by Zac Taylor

[Mikie2times]

Here is one for the masses. I don't care what side of the argument you're on. 

 

It's the start of 2025 playoffs. Do you feel more confident in a Super Bowl appearance if

 

McD is the head coach?

Somebody else is the head coach?

 

To me, it's somebody else in a landslide. Now I assume we get to that place either way. Others don't. But once/if we do, I just can't possibly find a path to saying I trust McD more in that moment or have more hope if he's HC in that moment and yes, it's literally vs the field. I don't need to know who the HC is. When you feel like you know the outcome and the outcome is negative, not knowing the outcome is more positive than a negative outcome. 

 

 

[TheBrownBear]

McDermott, in my opinion, has had one terrible moment (13 seconds) that hangs like an albatross around his neck.  I think the other losses were understandable due to key injuries and/or a lack of player execution in key moments, or just frankly not catching a break that other teams seem to get at one point or another.  Might be too much to ask, but I'd love to see us waltz into a playoff game against KC just once (not counting 2020 where they were just way damn better than us) where we were relatively strong and healthy on the defensive side of the ball (or didn't lose our best player (See Benford) in the first quarter).

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

Let me ask you this.  If we got the 1 seed and lost to KC at home in the AFC championship this year, 38-35 because we couldn't get a stop, sack, or turnover.  Would you want to keep McD? 

 

What if we DID get a stop, give the offense 4 minutes, all 3 time outs and needing a touchdown to go to the Superbowl and they stalled out at midfield?

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What if we DID get a stop, give the offense 4 minutes, all 3 time outs and needing a touchdown to go to the Superbowl and they stalled out at midfield?

it's kind of sad how 'hey they did get a stop that one time' is the best defense we can muster

 

How about not giving up 32 along the way

[Búfalo Blanco]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

😂😂baby steps baby steps

Forget Reid and Mcvay, he got outcoached by Zac Taylor

Oooof... Yeah, and that was the worst playoff loss of his tenure, IMO.

 

We need a coach who doesn't play scared against KC and Baltimore...