Royale with Cheese Posted July 17 Posted July 17 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: When? He was up for 17 games last year. He has played 34 out of 34 games in the last 2 years. If only he was healthy.... Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted July 17 Posted July 17 2 minutes ago, T.E. said: There are multiple teams where, if they had Josh Allen, they would lose somewhere between 0-2 games per season. I think this is an interesting way to look at Josh’s greatness. If you were to go team-by-team and plug Josh Allen into their current roster, what would their record be? It’s a little tricky because Josh is highly compensated and a lot of teams couldn’t realistically have him AND their current roster. You get the point though. The Bills roster is pretty average. They have a great OL but otherwise most of the roster is mid. Josh could have 25+ teams as Super Bowl contenders IMO. 2 1 Quote
GoBills808 Posted July 17 Posted July 17 6 hours ago, GunnerBill said: When? He was up for 17 games last year. 2022 his rookie year The one we were discussing Quote
Gunsgoodtime Posted July 17 Posted July 17 (edited) 18 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said: When did we lose all our receivers from last years top rated offense? We still have him, Josh Allen. In another poll I saw Buffalo was dead last at #1 wr rankings. If you can't see with your own eyes what everyone else can see, next time you go to the optometrist you should opt out of rose colored glasses Edited July 17 by Gunsgoodtime Quote
Logic Posted July 17 Posted July 17 Really? Because with the additions of Elijah Moore and Joshua Palmer, I can't help but feel that... The WR room quietly got better this offseason. 1 1 Quote
DapperCam Posted July 17 Posted July 17 19 hours ago, balln said: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/45689023/top-10-nfl-wide-receivers-execs-scouts-2025-espn-jeremy-fowler-position-rankings not one bill in any honorable mention category. We are devoid of top WR talent. Although Shakir is a nice player. He’s a #3 on Philly. Philly has a top-3 or 4 WR room in the league, so it isn’t a huge insult he’d be a #3 there. They have 2 high 1st round picks playing boundary, and he’d be full time starter in the slot. Shakir would be a good #2 on most teams in the league (in terms of targets), but definitely isn’t a high end #1. Quote
GoBills808 Posted July 17 Posted July 17 27 minutes ago, DapperCam said: Philly has a top-3 or 4 WR room in the league, so it isn’t a huge insult he’d be a #3 there. They have 2 high 1st round picks playing boundary, and he’d be full time starter in the slot. Shakir would be a good #2 on most teams in the league (in terms of targets), but definitely isn’t a high end #1. is that even true tho last year he wouldn't have been #2 on 50% of the AFC east Quote
GunnerBill Posted July 17 Posted July 17 56 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: 2022 his rookie year The one we were discussing We were discussing all of his years. And they are not impressive. He just ain't very good. Quote
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted July 17 Posted July 17 18 hours ago, TheBrownBear said: We are a Josh Allen regressing to the turnover mean from being a very mediocre offensive football team. I keep hearing this but it never happens. Josh Allen’s turnovers (when he WAS turning it over) generally didn’t affect the outcome of games hence the W-L record. The last one I can think of is the Vikings game 2 years ago where Allen threw a pick in the RZ in OT. I think the gunslinger label was fabricated by the media. When your entire offense is as QB-centric as the Bills, you are bound to throw picks. Obviously, Allen isn’t a surgeon like Brady or Brees, but I think he deserves much more credit for his accuracy and command of the offense. Other NFL QB’s might have a better TD-INT ratio, but they also aren’t putting up 40-50 TDs either without throwing double digit picks. Quote
GoBills808 Posted July 17 Posted July 17 2 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said: I keep hearing this but it never happens. Josh Allen’s turnovers (when he WAS turning it over) generally didn’t affect the outcome of games hence the W-L record. The last one I can think of is the Vikings game 2 years ago where Allen threw a pick in the RZ in OT. I think the gunslinger label was fabricated by the media. When your entire offense is as QB-centric as the Bills, you are bound to throw picks. Obviously, Allen isn’t a surgeon like Brady or Brees, but I think he deserves much more credit for his accuracy and command of the offense. Other NFL QB’s might have a better TD-INT ratio, but they also aren’t putting up 40-50 TDs either without throwing double digit picks. imo there's more to wonder about wrt the offense than just allen's negative play rate...we had a pretty big delta between points scored and yards gained, typically they correlate within a couple spots of each other in terms of rank. unless we stand to gain a not insignificant amount more yards this season than last i could see points regressing 1 1 Quote
ddaryl Posted July 17 Posted July 17 19 hours ago, TheBrownBear said: We are a Josh Allen regressing to the turnover mean from being a very mediocre offensive football team. So you have little faith in Josh Allen because he threw more INTs forcing the ball to Diggs Quote
DapperCam Posted July 17 Posted July 17 56 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: is that even true tho last year he wouldn't have been #2 on 50% of the AFC east Miami has a WR room on par with the Eagles (and paid a huge premium for it in terms of first round picks and cap space). Jets I guess you were right for the handful of games Adams was there. But he’s gone this year (and Wilson was #10 overall pick). I think Shakir would start in the slot on most teams and be #2 WR in terms of productivity on most. There are some obvious outliers (Cincy, Miami, Philly, Lions, Vikings?) Quote
SF Bills Fan Posted July 17 Posted July 17 Definitely reinforces Josh as MVP choice. Tom Brady rarely had great receivers. Mahommes does great with decent, but not great WR room. Good QBs make the WRs around them good. I think the philosophy that "everyone eats" with the Bills is the way to go. Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted July 17 Posted July 17 18 minutes ago, ddaryl said: So you have little faith in Josh Allen because he threw more INTs forcing the ball to Diggs I don’t want to speak for him but the Bills had like the 2nd fewest turnovers in history last year through the 16 games of the starters (or something like that). They also had the 2nd least sack yardage ever. That’s just not likely to be sustained. They will still probably be good in the sack department and could still minimize turnovers. It’s just not likely to be “as good as any team ever.” It’s EXTREMELY likely to expect some regression. Quote
GoBills808 Posted July 17 Posted July 17 Just now, DapperCam said: Miami has a WR room on par with the Eagles (and paid a huge premium for it in terms of first round picks and cap space). Jets I guess you were right for the handful of games Adams was there. But he’s gone this year (and Wilson was #10 overall pick). I think Shakir would start in the slot on most teams and be #2 WR in terms of productivity on most. There are some obvious outliers (Cincy, Miami, Philly, Lions, Vikings?) ok so eagles ofc cowboys- behind ceedee and pickens commanders- behind mclaurin and deebo rams- behind nacua and adams seahawks- behind kupp and jsn niners even maybe behind aiyuk and jennings altho i could go either way there tbh falcons probably behind london and mooney altho close bucs behind evans and godwin vikings behind jefferson/addison heck i think he might be third on the bears definitely behind arsb and williams on lions and thats just nfc Quote
RoscoeParrish Posted July 17 Posted July 17 (edited) 8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: ok so eagles ofc cowboys- behind ceedee and pickens commanders- behind mclaurin and deebo rams- behind nacua and adams seahawks- behind kupp and jsn niners even maybe behind aiyuk and jennings altho i could go either way there tbh falcons probably behind london and mooney altho close bucs behind evans and godwin vikings behind jefferson/addison heck i think he might be third on the bears definitely behind arsb and williams on lions and thats just nfc Sheesh 3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I think this is an interesting way to look at Josh’s greatness. If you were to go team-by-team and plug Josh Allen into their current roster, what would their record be? It’s a little tricky because Josh is highly compensated and a lot of teams couldn’t realistically have him AND their current roster. You get the point though. The Bills roster is pretty average. They have a great OL but otherwise most of the roster is mid. Josh could have 25+ teams as Super Bowl contenders IMO. The answer is closer to 32. The gap between the worst teams and best teams is not that large. do we think Josh Allen inserted on the NY Giants, (who won 3 games last season), throwing to Malik Nabers and getting a lead, with that DL able to pin their ears back and get after QBs, wouldn’t be contending for a top 3 seed in the NFC? Edited July 17 by RoscoeParrish 1 Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted July 17 Posted July 17 6 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said: Sheesh The answer is closer to 32. The gap between the worst teams and best teams is not that large. do we think Josh Allen inserted on the NY Giants, (who won 3 games last season), throwing to Malik Nabers and getting a lead, with that DL able to pin their ears back and get after QBs, wouldn’t be contending for a top 3 seed in the NFC? You might be right. Lol, I was trying to be conservative but love your Giants call. That’s an 11+ win team. They’d have an elite QB and elite pass rush. That’s a winning formula. Quote
BillsVet Posted July 17 Posted July 17 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I don’t want to speak for him but the Bills had like the 2nd fewest turnovers in history last year through the 16 games of the starters (or something like that). They also had the 2nd least sack yardage ever. That’s just not likely to be sustained. They will still probably be good in the sack department and could still minimize turnovers. It’s just not likely to be “as good as any team ever.” It’s EXTREMELY likely to expect some regression. No need to explain that maintaining their elite team offensive performance is not sustainable, but some still can't grasp it. Sad. It'd be like my group at work all in lock-step delivering on-time every time. Never does happen even with elite talent because stuff...just happens. In this case, it's 8 total offensive turnovers out of 1,088 snaps in the regular season and 0 out of 210 in the playoffs. That performance is unheard of in the modern NFL. Anyone who expects this to continue is clearly a slow thinker and it's not debatable. They will regress for several reasons, namely...defenses will adapt after reviewing Buffalo's offense this past off-season, their receiving options are pedestrian types who aren't winning as easily 1 on 1, and the ball will literally bounce against them, and their offensive health (particularly at OL) has been remarkably fortunate. None of us want to see one guy go down long-term, but it will happen. Edited July 17 by BillsVet 1 Quote
DapperCam Posted July 17 Posted July 17 42 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: ok so eagles ofc cowboys- behind ceedee and pickens commanders- behind mclaurin and deebo rams- behind nacua and adams seahawks- behind kupp and jsn niners even maybe behind aiyuk and jennings altho i could go either way there tbh falcons probably behind london and mooney altho close bucs behind evans and godwin vikings behind jefferson/addison heck i think he might be third on the bears definitely behind arsb and williams on lions and thats just nfc I don’t think he’s behind Pickens, Deebo, Mooney, Godwin, Addison, or Adams in 2025. His stats were very similar to those guys last year and the Bills weren’t exactly airing it out. Quote
RoscoeParrish Posted July 17 Posted July 17 (edited) 8 minutes ago, DapperCam said: I don’t think he’s behind Pickens, Deebo, Mooney, Godwin, Addison, or Adams in 2025. His stats were very similar to those guys last year and the Bills weren’t exactly airing it out. Shakir saw 100 targets with an MVP QB as the clear first option. Adams just got 2 for $44M. Shakir signed 4 for $53M. I think their markets have spoken. Edited July 17 by RoscoeParrish Quote
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