Mini-Camp: A James Cook Barometer

[RoscoeParrish]

17 minutes ago, MJS said:

That's part of the contract, though. The player agrees to that and it is spelled out exactly what will happen if the contract is terminated early, including paying out gaurenteed money. There aren't provisions in contracts to allow players to skip mandatory practices or games, though.

They should be “honorable” and fulfill the contract they signed, not terminate it early.

[Ya Digg?]

2 hours ago, eee1776 said:

How about someone being honorable enough to play out the contract he signed.

His contract is to play games. How come teams can cut a guy early, ask them to restructure (meaning take less money) and fans are good with that? He gets one real shot at making major money, and this is a negotiation tactic. He’s not going to sit out the season, he will be there when the games start, but people should already be prepared that he might not be seen u til much before that. Doesn’t mean he’s a villain, doesn’t mean people should turn on him (although they will), but the narrative will be painted that he’s a “bad teammate” even though there’s not a single guy in that locker room who will feel that way 

[The Wiz]

29 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

15 is out of the question... with who? You? The Bills? Because if he repeats his 2024 season, then when he hits the open market he will absolutely get $15M/yr. Maybe more.

The difference is that when Beane says "I don't want my 60m dollar QB just handing off to a 20m dollar RB" he's got a good point.  Unlike Joe Schoen talking about Daniel Jones.

 

I don't think Cook is going to get the same level of production.  Probably 10-11 TDs is my guess.  I think the problem that Cook doesn't realize is that just like with Barkley, he's running behind one of the better O-lines in the league.  The second he gets his 20m and goes to a team like the Pats/Colts, his production is likely going to fall off a cliff.

Edited Tuesday at 08:25 PM by The Wiz

[2003Contenders]

1 hour ago, gjv said:

I'm not sure in today's NFL, Cook is a 15 mil/yr back. But I do believe that the Pro Bowl player on our offense with the 2nd most touches of the ball, 2nd most TD's, 3rd most receptions, and rushed for over 1000 yards is worth at least Josh Palmer and Khalil Shakir money. That would put him at a minimum in the 12 mil/yr, 60 mil 4-year contract range. 

And this is probably the range in which the two sides will wind up -- $12M to $13M per year -- unless Cook and his agent prove to be unreasonable.

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

11 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

The difference is that when Beane says "I don't want my 60m dollar QB just handing off to a 20m dollar RB" he's got a good point.  Unlike Joe Schoen talking about Daniel Jones.

 

I don't think Cook is going to get the same level of production.  Probably 10-11 TDs is my guess.  I think the problem that Cook doesn't realize is that just like with Barkley, he's running behind one of the better O-lines in the league.  The second he gets his 20m and goes to a team like the Pats/Colts, his production is likely going to fall off a cliff.

 

What is this $20M number and where is it coming from? Cook has only mentioned $15M, and only mentioned it once. I have him possibly getting up to $17M on the market if he has a repeat season. At that point, we'd just Franchise Tag him tho and figure it out from there.

 

And as for the Schoen quote... Maybe I'm crazy but I'd swear there is a constant hum of Bills fans begging Beane to get Josh weapons so he doesnt have to do it all himself. Why are we so excited to get rid of the most productive skill player on Offense? What better to take the pressure off a QB than a real threatening running game? What better to take those dangerous carries off of Josh's shoulders than a real RB who can do it himself?

 

As for the OL, almost every great RB ran behind a great OL. Heck, even OJ had the Electric Company. Maybe the only one was Barry Sanders. You need both.

 

As to the bold, why does he care? He got his money. And for RBs, this next contract is likely his one shot at big bucks.

Edited Tuesday at 08:34 PM by DrDawkinstein

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think some distinguish camp from offseason. Offseason = OTAs and mini camp. Training Camp = preseason. 

 

But I expect Cook to be at training camp. Whether it is day 1 or not, not sure. But he will be here.

 

I suppose that's fair. I just feel like simply stating "Dalvin held out the Offseason" doesn't tell the whole story.

 

For as much vitriol and/or fear of a serious holdout people have towards James's situation and comparisons being made to his brother, implicating a bad influence - Dalvin never held out so much as a single Training Camp practice. Even when he was openly saying he was going to hold out, which James hasn't.

Edited Tuesday at 09:15 PM by BillsFanForever19

[PrimeTime101]

The craziness I am reading in this thread is unreal. Its simple. 

 

#1. Cook does not get the snap count deserving of a 15 mil contact.

#2 Cook has been horrible at times on 3rd downs. 

#3 His brother is not doing him any favors. 

 

Didn't we just do this is another thread? 

[The Wiz]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

What is this $20M number and where is it coming from? Cook has only mentioned $15M, and only mentioned it once. I have him possibly getting up to $17M on the market if he has a repeat season. At that point, we'd just Franchise Tag him tho and figure it out from there.

 

And as for the Schoen quote... Maybe I'm crazy but I'd swear there is a constant hum of Bills fans begging Beane to get Josh weapons so he doesnt have to do it all himself. Why are we so excited to get rid of the most productive skill player on Offense? What better to take the pressure off a QB than a real threatening running game? What better to take those dangerous carries off of Josh's shoulders than a real RB who can do it himself?

 

As for the OL, almost every great RB ran behind a great OL. Heck, even OJ had the Electric Company. Maybe the only one was Barry Sanders. You need both.

 

As to the bold, why does he care? He got his money. And for RBs, this next contract is likely his one shot at big bucks.

The $20M is coming from his brother.  He tweeted it out a while back.  Likely as a joke but all the same, I'm sure he meant it.

 

I don't disagree regarding Josh needed skill players on offense.  The reality is though, he gets the best out of every player that plays with him.  Which is why I don't mind when people complain when we don't have the blue chip players at skill position at offense when guys like Mack and Gabe are more than capable then move on.

 

As for the last two bolded, they go hand and hand.  Think of guys like Zeke and Bell that got paid and then ended up doing nothing only to be cut a year or 2 later.  The best way for Cook to both produce and keep earning money is to play and stay in the league.  That's not going to happen being behind a line that can't run block and you eventually become a cap casualty instead of a cap savings.

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

3 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

The $20M is coming from his brother.  He tweeted it out a while back.  Likely as a joke but all the same, I'm sure he meant it.

 

I don't disagree regarding Josh needed skill players on offense.  The reality is though, he gets the best out of every player that plays with him.  Which is why I don't mind when people complain when we don't have the blue chip players at skill position at offense when guys like Mack and Gabe are more than capable then move on.

 

As for the last two bolded, they go hand and hand.  Think of guys like Zeke and Bell that got paid and then ended up doing nothing only to be cut a year or 2 later.  The best way for Cook to both produce and keep earning money is to play and stay in the league.  That's not going to happen being behind a line that can't run block and you eventually become a cap casualty instead of a cap savings.

I am seriously at the point where i can care less what happens to cook. People are seriously devaluating the level of talent behind cook.  

 

Ray Davis has a HECK of a running game the day Cook Missed.. And we still have our 3rd down pro Ty Johnson.  Do I think Ray Davis is as good as cook? We do not have enough sample size.. but I am willing to bet we would do just fine. 

[The Wiz]

6 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

I am seriously at the point where i can care less what happens to cook. People are seriously devaluating the level of talent behind cook.  

 

Ray Davis has a HECK of a running game the day Cook Missed.. And we still have our 3rd down pro Ty Johnson.  Do I think Ray Davis is as good as cook? We do not have enough sample size.. but I am willing to bet we would do just fine. 

I don't think anyone is devaluing them.  Cook has just proven it.  It's all hindsight.  Same way people complain that we should have just drafted Jefferson instead of trading for Diggs.

 

I honestly don't care if he resigns or not.  I just care if he plays this year(which in my mind, he would be lowering his value in FA if he didn't).

 

Of all the RBs in the league I would think that Cook probably has the best shelf life considering how little he played in college compared to most other RBs.  That alone would make me more intrigued to sign him for closer to what he is asking (~12-12.5 would be my max).

Edited Tuesday at 09:01 PM by The Wiz

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

15 is out of the question... with who? You? The Bills? Because if he repeats his 2024 season, then when he hits the open market he will absolutely get $15M/yr. Maybe more.

 

[finn]

3 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Oh please. Players get cut one year into a 3 year contract all the time. I want Cook to be here, but I'm not going to vilify a guy for trying to get more money. 

Yeah, but what message is he sending that's worth missing all these early but still important practices? "I'm really serious, guys! I really am mad now!" It's just so juvenile. If anything, Beane is less likely to sign him if he holds out, and I see why. He loses nothing by coming to mini-camp and gains a lot, including Beane's good will. 

 

Some of these athletes have the minds of 14-year olds. 

[BigAl2526]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

He is playing out the contract he signed. The entire discussion/negotiation is about his next contract. 

If a new deal were to be agreed upon, there would likely be a significant signing bonus, which would presumably be paid immediately, though the cap hi would be prorated over the life of the deal.  I think in many cases, new deals that are signed before the old contracts expire supercede the old contract.  

[BillsFanForever19]

48 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Didn't we just do this is another thread? 

 

More than once. A 70 page one and a 27 page one. Anytime it goes a week or so without comments and they fall off the page, someone creates a new James Cook thread for people to lose it all over again in.

 

At this point, there should be a Pinned all encompassing James Cook thread.

 

 

[Tulsabillsfanz]

I don’t blame Cook or any player for negotiating the best contract possible, especially considering the short length of the average NFL career.  
 

I do blame Cook or any player for negotiating in a very public way and becoming a distraction to building a championship team. 
 

Publicly demanding certain $$, scrubbing the Bills from your social media accounts and putting your Buffalo area home on the market are all distractions and a negative for team building.  It creates another walking on egg shells situation.  

[Captain Hindsight]

33 minutes ago, finn said:

Yeah, but what message is he sending that's worth missing all these early but still important practices? "I'm really serious, guys! I really am mad now!" It's just so juvenile. If anything, Beane is less likely to sign him if he holds out, and I see why. He loses nothing by coming to mini-camp and gains a lot, including Beane's good will. 

 

Some of these athletes have the minds of 14-year olds. 

I can promise you, not one of these professional athletes or the FO people who deal with professional athletes give a damn if cook is there or not. It only matters in September 

[Mikie2times]

Cooks is going to go down the path of doing the least he has to do without impacting his potential contract value next year. Can't say I blame him either. If he drops 1300+ yards with double digit touchdowns nobody is going to remember or care what he did prior to the start of the season. If he gets injured or underperforms nobody is going to say, well at least he went to camp. In the end this stuff is fairly meaningless to whatever the long term outcome is for the Bills and for Cook. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

He won't be there.

 

Dalvin held out the offseason.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29283874/vikings-rb-dalvin-cook-hold-reasonable-deal-source-says

Agreed he won't be there.  If it carries over to training camp, I would look to move him.

[PrimeTime101]

31 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I can promise you, not one of these professional athletes or the FO people who deal with professional athletes give a damn if cook is there or not. It only matters in September 

To the bolded. Preparation is key.. saying the FO people don't give a damn is the furthest from the truth... 

 

JS.. 

[Neo]

I believe the Josh Allen and O-line led offense of the Buffalo Bills contributes more to the success of James Cook than James Cook contributes to the success of Josh Allen and O-line of the Buffalo Bills.   $11 million; you’re lucky for that; get your a$$ here and play football.   He thinks differently?    Leave in February and best of luck to you.