The Cowboys, Overexposed? Maybe. Overrated? .... You Decide

[MikePJ76]

Jerry Jones is not a marketing genius.  He bought a team at a time when they were at their lowest level and actually were irrelevant.  They had the biggest fan base in maybe all of sports and still do.  They nailed their first few drafts which were run by landry's old people and jimmy johnson.  They built a great team and won a lot in the 90s.

 

All the cowboys have to do is show up and they get attention.  The national media has been writing the same stories about the cowboys since jerry bought the team in 1989.  Nothing has changed.  They have a giant fan base with buying power because it spans all generations.  

 

They get national ratings on tv because people want to see them lose.  

 

No one in Dallas has been a marketing genius since Tex Schramm invented the cheerleaders and requested to play every thanksgiving.  

Jerry came into the league a stubborn bully doing whatever he wanted and strong arming the leadership in the league to his demands.  His one claim to fame is the tv money.  that is his one thing he has done.  He hired jimmy johnson and took the tv deal and ripped it up and got fox to buy the nfl.  

 

Everything about the jones family and the cowboys sucks the big one.  

 

Jerry Jones is an epic scumbag.  He made his original money the old fashion way though fraud and ripping off taxpayers.  He and his buddies and their Arkoma natural gas buisness did a sweetheart deal with arkla the provider of natural gas to resident of arkansas and louisianna.  They ripped off taxpayers with excessive charges and the only way to stop the sweetheart deal he had was to buy his company.  So jerry sold his gas company for 174 million in 1984 because the state basically had to get out of the deal it signed with jerry through jerrys pal at arkla.  

 

Jerry walked away rich and used the money to buy the cowboys and the state (arkansas  public service commission) sued his company for fraud but he walked away scott free without a single penalty.  His pal who gave him the sweetheart deal (Sheffield Nelson) lost his run for governor in 1990 because of the fraud that was exposed by him and jerry.  

 

Now jerry is one of the richest people on the planet.

 

Edited Tuesday at 04:45 PM by MikePJ76

[FireChans]

22 hours ago, corta765 said:

A lot was made during the schedule release that Dallas is on primetime too much and more so they are not good enough to deserve the attention. There is no doubt that the team is overexposed which is intentional because of Jerry Jones. The dude may be annoying as hell, but he is brand wizard which I do respect him for. With that said I love seeing Dallas with egg on their face so I take a certain satisfaction in their primetime losses (Ayooo 2019 Bills baby!).This did get me thinking though how has Dallas done comparatively over the last decade and are they really overrated or just ringlessly successful. Welp I spent at least 11 minutes and got the following to discuss:

 

Over the past decade Dallas has...

-Won four division crowns

-Made the playoffs six of the ten years.

-Three of their playoff losses were in the divisional round including 2016 which Dallas was the 1 seed only to be upset by Rodgers and the Pack last second on a FG

-Overall record of 93-71 good enough for a 56% win rate

-.500 or better in seven of ten seasons

-In 2020 and 2024 Dak was hurt. In 2020 when Dak got hurt for the season their offense was averaging 26.9 ppg, last year Dak never was fully healthy

-They have had star players over that time including Dak, Zeke, Micah Parsons, Cede Lamb, Dez Bryant, Amari Cooper, DeMarcus Lawrence etc..

 

Of the 32 NFL teams only the following have won more division crowns:

KC, Buffalo, New England, Minnesota, & Houston

 

And the following teams have won four division crowns:

Baltimore, Green Bay, LA Rams, Philly, & Tampa

 

The following teams have six or more playoffs appearances:

KC, Buffalo, Baltimore, Green Bay, LA Rams, New England, Pittsburgh, Philly, & Seattle

(Dallas & Seattle are the only two teams of the ten with six playoffs appearances or more to not have made a title game in the last decade.)

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Looking all of this over Dallas has been a top 10 team in the league for the last decade, its the non-surprisingly playoffs where any real success has eluded them. Tampa has a SB and four division crowns, but was not a good franchise until Brady arrived in 2020. By comparison Dallas was a more consistent yearly winner both in record and division crowns. Seattle has been more of a wildcard team in this time as their last division crown was 2020 and before that 2016. Five of the Cowboys playoff losses were one score losses which they had their chances in and for one reason or another couldn't breakthrough. The 49ers have 5 primetime games this year and over the last decade have been a far lessor regular season team with only four playoff appearances in that time. But the 49ers have made two Super Bowls and three NFC title games during that stretch again absolving them of similar criticism. The coverage of the Cowboys given the brand and market certainly can feel overblown and probably is to some extent, but the brass numbers paint a pretty successful franchise that networks can count on for solid games year in year out which is part of why they are included so frequently. Truthfully if you think it is annoying now, had Dallas broken through during this time and made a SB it would probably be even worse (if that is even possible). At the same time Dallas run and inability to breakthrough does beg the question have they wasted a major window and if they fade will the coverage still be the same. Again for you all to decide haha

Dallas had one of the best draft records for about 10 years running. 

 

From 2013 - 2023, of the players they drafted

 

13 AP seasons

44 Pro Bowl seasons

 

And they had 2 losing records during that span.

 

For comparison, the Bills over the same stretch had:

 

2 AP seasons

19 Pro Bowl seasons

 

Dallas gets a lot of grief on here because they tend to get exposed in the playoffs and are talked about in media circles like they are in the Super Bowl every year.  But they have been an objectively good team for quite a while.

[Gregg]

Big market teams or teams with national appeal that bring in huge ratings will always be put in the spotlight. The Cowboys have been a decent team. It's not like they suck. On the other end of the spectrum, we have the Giants coming off a 3-14 season last year. This year they still get 3 primetime games. KC (SNF), PHIL(TNF) and NE (MNF). Big market teams always get the spotlight, and it doesn't matter what their record was the previous year. If the Bills were coming off a 3-14 season they would get 1:00 every game unless they were on the WC in which its 4:05 but 1:00 local time out there.

[MikePJ76]

33 minutes ago, Gregg said:

Big market teams or teams with national appeal that bring in huge ratings will always be put in the spotlight. The Cowboys have been a decent team. It's not like they suck. On the other end of the spectrum, we have the Giants coming off a 3-14 season last year. This year they still get 3 primetime games. KC (SNF), PHIL(TNF) and NE (MNF). Big market teams always get the spotlight, and it doesn't matter what their record was the previous year. If the Bills were coming off a 3-14 season they would get 1:00 every game unless they were on the WC in which its 4:05 but 1:00 local time out there.

Big Market teams are always going to draw more viewers.  The Big stands for people, like that is where all the people are and traditionally in each sport the big markets have had the best teams or most memorable teams/games.

 

people were complaining because the yankees and dodgers were on espn sunday...but...

 

ESPN drew 2.73 million viewers for Sunday's Dodgers-Yankees game. Most watched Sunday Night Baseball game on ESPN in seven years (2018, Yankees-Red Sox).

[Whites Bay]

Two comments on the Cowboys - and I defer to all of you who follow them in a much more obsessive level of detail than I do.

 

1) The "aha" moment for me as relates to the suckitude of the Cowboys came on the day they fired Jason Garrett.  (And, no, I don't mean to turn this into a Cowboy coaching discussion).  The crawler at the bottom of the ESPN screen said something like "10 year tenure" and "87-70 record".  Being the math whiz that I am, I used my high-level calculator and found myself staring at "9-7".  Like...there's the number.  For ten solid years, there's the number.  They AREN'T "America's Team".  They're not even special.  They're getting in as a wild card each year, or they're just missing the post season entirely.  Why all the hype?  Frankly, they're boring.

 

2) The saving grace for the Cowboys is the NFC East team based in New Jersey.  If it weren't for the stupidity of the Giants franchise, the Cowboys would get smoked in that division.

[JP51]

I think the Cowboys have been all pomp and no circumstance for years... I dont hate them anymore, that is saying something... they are all but irrelevant to me... and I was a Cowboy hater all the way back in the 70s with they were the cocky arrogant South America's team of loud mouths... of course the Superbowls etc.. but they just kinda exist to me now... but that is what 25- 30 years of basic irrelevance does (not real legitimate SB contenders) ...  I think Jerry Jones involvement limits them... and as this slowly continues because they never really bottom out... they will become increasingly less hate able... and more like the Bears or the Cardinals.. just meh...  thats my take on them...

 

So over exposed, I think to a degree...  6 Prime time games to the say Dolphins (close playoff team but not in 5) but you still have a large market and there is that glitzy aura ....  Over rated, not by me... they look like a lean out playoff bubble team...  to Cowboys fans... I suspect they are really over rated... but then again... to us have we over rated the Bills a year or two... thats just being a fan... to the media... i dont know they tend to put optimistic spins on things... maybe a little... 

Edited Tuesday at 05:54 PM by JP51

[corta765]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

Big market teams or teams with national appeal that bring in huge ratings will always be put in the spotlight. The Cowboys have been a decent team. It's not like they suck. On the other end of the spectrum, we have the Giants coming off a 3-14 season last year. This year they still get 3 primetime games. KC (SNF), PHIL(TNF) and NE (MNF). Big market teams always get the spotlight, and it doesn't matter what their record was the previous year. If the Bills were coming off a 3-14 season they would get 1:00 every game unless they were on the WC in which its 4:05 but 1:00 local time out there.

 

The NFL reallllllyyy wants the Giants to be good or decent this year. I have already seen the national pundits saying the Giants had a great draft and "could be a sleeper team" blah blah blah. They will win 5-6 games and Daboll will get fired.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, corta765 said:

 

The NFL reallllllyyy wants the Giants to be good or decent this year. I have already seen the national pundits saying the Giants had a great draft and "could be a sleeper team" blah blah blah. They will win 5-6 games and Daboll will get fired.

 

I think they did have a good draft. But I am not a huge Dart believer and ultimately QB will sink that team.

[billsfan89]

It's funny because the Cowboys actually operate in a fairly "boring" manner outside of Jones antics with coaching. They haven't been massive spenders in free agency or made big splashy trades for the most part. Their massive contracts (Dak, Lamb, Diggs, and eventually Parsons) have been all players they drafted and developed by them. Their fans have been on Jerry for not spending much in free agency. 

The issue with the Cowboys is that despite being a top 10 drafting team in recent years and their owners willingness to spend money they will never attract a good coach as long as Jerry Jones insists on not only running the team but micromanaging it. They also have the Dak issue where he's a good QB getting paid like an elite QB. For me with Jerry the issue that's most in his control is his constant presence and meddling is going to lead to the Cowboys never having a good coach because only 2nd and 3rd tier coaches are going to want to put up with that. 

The top up and coming coordinators and the best most proven retreads have options where they can take a job that's not gonna feature an owner whose constantly making themselves the center of attention and is also the GM. Jones has actually improved as a GM as shown by the teams drafting and prudence in free agency. But with a not so great QB situation relative to what they are paying him and a owner whose kryptonite to a good coach the Cowboys are likely to be a good team that never gets past the divisional round going forward. 

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think they did have a good draft. But I am not a huge Dart believer and ultimately QB will sink that team.

 

The Giants are a easy team to be one of the 2-3 random teams that sneak into the playoffs. No one last year expected the Broncos, Vikings, or Commanders to make the playoffs and that happens every season where you get those 2-3 teams that overachieve. It's what makes the NFL so great for fans because any team can vastly over achieve. Personally I think the Giants are a 7 win team. Nice draft classes the past couple of seasons, decent free agency, but lackluster QB situation and a coach walking a fine line to being fired as well as still having offensive line issues is just screaming 7 maybe 8 wins with some luck. 5-6 wins with some bad luck type team. 

[Gregg]

23 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

It's funny because the Cowboys actually operate in a fairly "boring" manner outside of Jones antics with coaching. They haven't been massive spenders in free agency or made big splashy trades for the most part. Their massive contracts (Dak, Lamb, Diggs, and eventually Parsons) have been all players they drafted and developed by them. Their fans have been on Jerry for not spending much in free agency. 

The issue with the Cowboys is that despite being a top 10 drafting team in recent years and their owners willingness to spend money they will never attract a good coach as long as Jerry Jones insists on not only running the team but micromanaging it. They also have the Dak issue where he's a good QB getting paid like an elite QB. For me with Jerry the issue that's most in his control is his constant presence and meddling is going to lead to the Cowboys never having a good coach because only 2nd and 3rd tier coaches are going to want to put up with that. 

The top up and coming coordinators and the best most proven retreads have options where they can take a job that's not gonna feature an owner whose constantly making themselves the center of attention and is also the GM. Jones has actually improved as a GM as shown by the teams drafting and prudence in free agency. But with a not so great QB situation relative to what they are paying him and a owner whose kryptonite to a good coach the Cowboys are likely to be a good team that never gets past the divisional round going forward. 

 

The Giants are a easy team to be one of the 2-3 random teams that sneak into the playoffs. No one last year expected the Broncos, Vikings, or Commanders to make the playoffs and that happens every season where you get those 2-3 teams that overachieve. It's what makes the NFL so great for fans because any team can vastly over achieve. Personally I think the Giants are a 7 win team. Nice draft classes the past couple of seasons, decent free agency, but lackluster QB situation and a coach walking a fine line to being fired as well as still having offensive line issues is just screaming 7 maybe 8 wins with some luck. 5-6 wins with some bad luck type team. 

 

I don't see them making the playoffs. The Eagles and Commanders are much better. Dallas is probably still better as well.

[corta765]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think they did have a good draft. But I am not a huge Dart believer and ultimately QB will sink that team.

 

I think their draft was good. But the talk is they are substantially better when truthfully they have no QB answer, the offense still is lukewarm talent wise, and they play in a division where they are decidedly the worst team. Even if their defense becomes a top 10 unit and the offense grows a bit are they really winning more than 6-7 games tops? Besides their own division they play KC, SF, LAC, DEN, GB, & DET; plus MIN & CHI feel like better rosters to pick who they also play. I just don't see this team between talent and schedule as really moving the needle. They need another year of draft, either Dart to develop OR a QB to establish OR draft a QB round 1 than, and the division to weaken somehow.

[corta765]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

The Giants are a easy team to be one of the 2-3 random teams that sneak into the playoffs. No one last year expected the Broncos, Vikings, or Commanders to make the playoffs and that happens every season where you get those 2-3 teams that overachieve. It's what makes the NFL so great for fans because any team can vastly over achieve. Personally I think the Giants are a 7 win team. Nice draft classes the past couple of seasons, decent free agency, but lackluster QB situation and a coach walking a fine line to being fired as well as still having offensive line issues is just screaming 7 maybe 8 wins with some luck. 5-6 wins with some bad luck type team. 

 

While no one expected those teams a few things at least made it more possible then NY:

 

1. Rookie QBs: The greatest unknown and greatest hope of the NFL is a rookie QB. Nix played well enough to be a solid starter and help end their playoff drought. Daniels already might be Top 3 QB in the NFC. That is the greatest game changer in existence.

2. Stacked Defense or Offense: Denver has had a great defense for years and finally got an offense that wasn't dog sh*t so the jump happened more understandably. Denver reminded me a bit of Bills 2019. Minnesota skill position group is possibly the best in the NFL and at minimum top 5. Darnold had shown some flashes before and took over an offense which if you could be decent could go toe to toe with anyone given the skill group (plus O'Connell is an insanely good coach).

3. Schedule: Denver won the games they were supposed to but their only win over a playoff team was Tampa (KC rested week 18 that doesnt count). Minnesota did actually have some really good wins, but they still also got Vegas, NYG, IND, TEN, JAX, & the Jets. Again not exactly murders row. Washington? Same thing. NYG 2x, CLE, CAR, TEN, & NOLA. They did beat the Eagles and CIN on the road too for some quality wins.

 

I am with you the Giants are a 6-7 win team given the lack of talent and schedule. Maybe Dart jumpstarts into Nix 2.0 as his legs and arm have potential. That is the one unknown that maybe inspires more hope than anything else if your a Giants fan.  Maybe the defense has a top 5 year and gets the turnover luck where the offense can stay within itself. There are scenarios and you do get teams out of the blue yearly like you said. The problem is the G-Man aren't getting the schedule you would like, they offense is bottom 3 and still lukewarm after Nabers, and the defense was middling by every stat. It just doesn't scream possible darkhorse at this time.

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

I think their draft was good. But the talk is they are substantially better when truthfully they have no QB answer, the offense still is lukewarm talent wise, and they play in a division where they are decidedly the worst team. Even if their defense becomes a top 10 unit and the offense grows a bit are they really winning more than 6-7 games tops? Besides their own division they play KC, SF, LAC, DEN, GB, & DET; plus MIN & CHI feel like better rosters to pick who they also play. I just don't see this team between talent and schedule as really moving the needle. They need another year of draft, either Dart to develop OR a QB to establish OR draft a QB round 1 than, and the division to weaken somehow.

 

Yea they don't have a QB. But if Dart had a Daniels esque year..... then it is possible. I don't forsee that. But if he did they will compete for the playoffs.

[BullBuchanan]

The Bills and the Cowboys are pretty much the same team right now. Strong regular season teams. Not sure how we have the ego to talk down to them.

They played without their starting QB last year and still were respectable. They've gone 12-5 each of the last 3 seasons with Dak under center. We don't want to start comparing Lombardi's with them either.

[corta765]

18 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea they don't have a QB. But if Dart had a Daniels esque year..... then it is possible. I don't forsee that. But if he did they will compete for the playoffs.

 

Yep and predicting rookie success at QB is legit... throwing Darts lol

 

But seriously I thought Williams was actually pretty decent but the team was awful. But Daniels looks early on like the gem of this class.