Elijah Moore Visiting the Bills today (Update: Signed!)

[Doc Brown]

49 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

You can sure argue ball placement.

Dick move by the Browns.

So John Brown, Cole Beasley and Diggs all just remained the same when they got JA throwing them the ball.  Oh wait..

All had at least 800 yards seasons before coming here.  Brown had one season over 1,000 yards before coming here.  Beasley's best year here was about 130 yards more than his best year with the Cowboys.  Diggs had two straight 1,000 yard seasons before coming here.

 

Great QB's can make mediocre WR's better but it's not a guarantee.  The WR on our roster with the most yards in a season was Curtis Samuel with 851 yards receiving in 2020.

[Success]

24 minutes ago, Billl said:

Yes.  John Brown had one really good season before he was on the Bills (1000 yards and 7 TDs).  He had one really good season while he was on the Bills (1100 yards and 6 TDs).  That one season was also with 2019 Josh who wasn’t a very good QB yet.

 

Cole Beasley was the same guy in Buffalo as he was in Dallas.  He just got more targets in Buffalo.  His previous career high was 98 targets for 833 yards and 5 TDs.  In Buffalo, he averaged 108 targets for 813 yards and 4 TDS.

 

Same is true of Diggs.  He was an emerging star when Buffalo gave up a first round pick plus for him.  He continued his career arc afterwards while going from 94 targets in his last season in MN to 166 and 164 his first two seasons in Buffalo.

 

WR stats are oddly independent of quality of QB play.

 

 

I'd love to see a more comprehensive analysis - which is probably hard to come by without a lot of research. 

 

The conclusion that it doesn't matter for a WR who his QB is seems to fly in the face of logic.

 

But your posts are working.  I promise not to get too hopeful if we sign this guy.

 

Edited Tuesday at 02:34 AM by Success

[The Jokeman]

2 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

This seems to happen so infrequently that I forget the consequences …

 

Can he can still elect to sign with the Bills at a lesser amount ?  Does this just impact the Bills future comp pick formula or do they need to give up a pick? 

I read it he can sign with any team at any amount before July 22. Some may say he'd be foolish to pass on signing for less than the tender but if he doesn't like the Browns QBs and feels can produce more here he might take less money in hopes to produce to earn bigger money down the road. At only 25 it makes sense as still could get a big pay day if has a career year.

Edited Tuesday at 02:44 AM by The Jokeman

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, turbo044 said:

Mack Collins too.  Of course there's guys like MJS who disappear or whatever his initials are

 

Then he goes to the Saints and seemingly was catching a 50+ yard TD every week...

[Richard Noggin]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Literally does not prove anything other than that sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesn’t when a payer goes to a new team.
 

The guy YOU used just put up 500 more yards in his 5th year than he averaged his first 4 after switching teams.  

 

Love how you want to cherry pick when a change of a scenery didn’t work…ignore when it did…then blanket paint the picture it never works lol.  
 

Classic TSW though 
 

 

I mean, you're responding to a Chiefs fan, so...classic Chiefs Planet really

[HappyDays]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

First off, they quite obviously should have done a better job addressing the position in the prior 3 drafts.   They can triple dip on DL and DB this draft but couldn't double up on WR in a very deep 2024 draft?

 

But given the circumstance they'd put themselves in,  trading for DK was definitely the play.

 

The trade price was right,  give them a 2 and a day 3 pick to beat Pittsburgh's offer.   Whether some fans were sure about paying him market rate or not he was like the IDEAL fit for their biggest need.......a deep threat they can keep on the field in every down.   It's not a secret that the next free agent WR class is poor and the strength of this draft was defense.   The WR class next year will probably look a lot like this past one,  except this past one looked A LOT better on paper at this time last year.  So 2-3 seasons may pass before you get a surer thing than DK was.  

 

Palmer looks like an over-priced half-measure by comparison.   Hopefully I am wrong about that but I just don't see an 8 figure aav boundary WR there.  

 

 

 

Also the thing people forget about Metcalf's contract is that it would replace Palmer's contract. So the actual effect on the cap would not be as bad as it looks. Metcalf costs $6.7M more than Palmer this season, $19.5M more next season, and then in 2027 his contract is made to be restructured. It was not as prohibitive a contract as people made it out to be. He basically would have just replaced Diggs' spot in the future salary cap which Beane had already been accounting for before that relationship became untenable. We wouldn't have been able to sign the PED brothers but I think we'd manage okay. Instead for the second consecutive offseason we're having to hype ourselves up about a 2nd round bust reclamation project.

 

Edited Tuesday at 04:26 AM by HappyDays

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, Chicharito said:

I posted about him earlier about FA I would target. 4.35 40 time. Can’t teach speed and that’s what this team is lacking.

 

The team isn't lacking speed. KJ Hamler is on the PS. Jalen Virgil ran a 4.40. What it's lacking is speed WRs that can actually play at an NFL level consistently and get deep. Moore doesn't do either of those. I'd take him at this point because he's better than Shavers or Shenault but it's a marginal improvement and his skill set is mostly redundant with what already exists in Samuel and Shakir. Honestly I'd rather we re-sign Amari Cooper if anything. At least there's some sort of proof of concept there and he gives us a baseline vertical skill set.

[Richard Noggin]

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Also the thing people forget about Metcalf's contract is that it would replace Palmer's contract. So the actual effect on the cap would not be as bad as it looks. Metcalf costs $6.7M more than Palmer this season, $19.5M more next season, and then in 2027 his contract is made to be restructured. It was not as prohibitive a contract as people made it out to be. He basically would have just replaced Diggs' spot in the future salary cap which Beane had already been accounting for before that relationship became untenable. We wouldn't have been able to sign the PED brothers but I think we'd manage okay. Instead for the second consecutive offseason we're having to hype ourselves up about a 2nd round bust reclamation project.

 

 

Oof. 

[ShakAttack]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

The team isn't lacking speed. KJ Hamler is on the PS. Jalen Virgil ran a 4.40. What it's lacking is speed WRs that can actually play at an NFL level consistently and get deep. Moore doesn't do either of those. I'd take him at this point because he's better than Shavers or Shenault but it's a marginal improvement and his skill set is mostly redundant with what already exists in Samuel and Shakir. Honestly I'd rather we re-sign Amari Cooper if anything. At least there's some sort of proof of concept there and he gives us a baseline vertical skill set.

Would still love to see Hamler actually get a chance in a regular season game. I don’t know what the issue is here. He played well for the Broncos despite playing on one of the worst offenses in the NFL. His problem was staying healthy. 

Edited Tuesday at 07:53 AM by ShakAttack

[BobbyC81]

8 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Petty, but understandable.

 

So seldom used, I never heard of it.   Restricted free agent tender, yeah.

[Pete]

8 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Here's a little more clarification. Though I still don't fully understand it. I mean, we haven't moved beyond the qualifying Comp Formula for lost FA's. And if this tender doesn't extend past that and simply locks in the Comp Formula at a certain number, like, what's the point? 

 

 

or we could of just drafted a WR, controlled costs, and not had to deal with BS unrestricted FA tenders

[DCofNC]

7 hours ago, Billl said:

Yes.  John Brown had one really good season before he was on the Bills (1000 yards and 7 TDs).  He had one really good season while he was on the Bills (1100 yards and 6 TDs).  That one season was also with 2019 Josh who wasn’t a very good QB yet.

 

Cole Beasley was the same guy in Buffalo as he was in Dallas.  He just got more targets in Buffalo.  His previous career high was 98 targets for 833 yards and 5 TDs.  In Buffalo, he averaged 108 targets for 813 yards and 4 TDS.

 

Same is true of Diggs.  He was an emerging star when Buffalo gave up a first round pick plus for him.  He continued his career arc afterwards while going from 94 targets in his last season in MN to 166 and 164 his first two seasons in Buffalo.

 

WR stats are oddly independent of quality of QB play.

 

Every one of them had a career year with JA, but you say they are the same guy.  I say, they all got elevated by JA.  If Moore does the same, he could be an 800 yard receiver.  Will it happen? Who knows in the Brady scheme.

[MarlinTheMagician]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

The team isn't lacking speed. KJ Hamler is on the PS. Jalen Virgil ran a 4.40. What it's lacking is speed WRs that can actually play at an NFL level consistently and get deep. Moore doesn't do either of those. I'd take him at this point because he's better than Shavers or Shenault but it's a marginal improvement and his skill set is mostly redundant with what already exists in Samuel and Shakir. Honestly I'd rather we re-sign Amari Cooper if anything. At least there's some sort of proof of concept there and he gives us a baseline vertical skill set.

Agree with everything except "he's better than Shavers."  I don't necessarily disagree with that either, but what do we base that on?  Shavers has been in the lab working on his body and the offense for two years.  How do we know how good he is at this point?  We do well developing OL on the PS - if we don't think Shavers (or Hamlin, or Virgil) can ever be promoted, we need to get different guys on the PS that have traits suggesting they could come up and win a job at some point if they develop.  

2 hours ago, ShakAttack said:

Would still love to see Hamler actually get a chance in a regular season game. I don’t know what the issue is here. He played well for the Broncos despite playing on one of the worst offenses in the NFL. His problem was staying healthy. 

Same with Shavers.  If we need a fast little guy we already have one in Hamler.  Not sure we need that - Shavers brings something different.  They clearly like Virgil too.  The only FA WRs I would want are Allen or maybe Cooper if the Bills think injury hurt his performance.  

[MrEpsYtown]

Bills are not in line for any comp picks, so that ufa tender should not be an issue. I guess it comes down to price, opportunity and fit. 

 

Browns just signed Diontae "No hands" Johnson, so extending this tender feels a little disingenuous, but Browns gonna Brown. 

[oldmanfan]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

or we could of just drafted a WR, controlled costs, and not had to deal with BS unrestricted FA tenders

We did.  In round 7.  Keep up.

[MrEpsYtown]

1 hour ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Same with Shavers.  If we need a fast little guy we already have one in Hamler.  Not sure we need that - Shavers brings something different.  They clearly like Virgil too.  The only FA WRs I would want are Allen or maybe Cooper if the Bills think injury hurt his performance.  

 

So there are 2 huge differences between Hamler and Moore. They are durability and production. Moore has been 3 times as productive in his career and has been extremely durable. Hamler has not played a meaningful snap since 2022, a year in which he played in 7 games after playing in just 3 games in 2021. 

 

These two are not the same at all. 

 

[sleeby]

11 hours ago, Billl said:

I’m telling you that Elijah Moore is Elijah Moore.  No less, no more.  He’d probably be a solid addition and get you around 500 yards and a couple TDs…because that’s who he is and what he does.  He’s not going to suddenly become a 900 and 8 guy just because he’s got a better QB.  That’s just not how it works.  

 

I’m sure there have been WRs who changed teams and suddenly broke out because they had a better QB throwing to them, but it’s so rare that it’s not even worth mentioning.  If anything, top WRs do better with lesser QBs who force them the ball.  99% of the time, if you want to know how good a veteran WR is, all you have to do is look at the back of his football card.  If you want to get excited about possibly signing Elijah Moore, have at it.

 

 

Everybody eats worked great for josh and the gang so this is fine with me.  

[BarleyNY]

17 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Bills are not in line for any comp picks, so that ufa tender should not be an issue. I guess it comes down to price, opportunity and fit. 

 

Browns just signed Diontae "No hands" Johnson, so extending this tender feels a little disingenuous, but Browns gonna Brown. 

 

The impact is has is that it puts a floor on what he can make this season - about $3.5M. He may take a little less from a team like the Bills, but he has that contract to fall back on. 

[MrEpsYtown]

7 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

The impact is has is that it puts a floor on what he can make this season - about $3.5M. He may take a little less from a team like the Bills, but he has that contract to fall back on. 

 

Makes a ton of sense. I think that's the kind of salary he should be in line for. MVS signed for 1 year 4 million, Mike Williams 1 year 3 million. I think somewhere in that range is fair. 

[MarlinTheMagician]

25 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

So there are 2 huge differences between Hamler and Moore. They are durability and production. Moore has been 3 times as productive in his career and has been extremely durable. Hamler has not played a meaningful snap since 2022, a year in which he played in 7 games after playing in just 3 games in 2021. 

 

These two are not the same at all. 

 

You're right, Moore is an absolute a**hole and Hamler is not.

 

I remember this guy vividly with the Jets and I REALLY don't want him.  Contemporary news report:

 

Shortly before Elijah Moore requested a trade from the Jets in October, the receiver was sent home from practice after reportedly voicing his frustrationand displeasure with his role in New York's offense.

 

Moore wasn't getting the ball, producing numbers that paled in comparison to his promising performance as a rookie in 2021.

 

 

Three months later, more details have emerged from that outburst that took place behind closed doors, a situation that involved a confrontation with former offensive coordinator Mike LaFleur.

 

According to Zack Rosenblatt of The Athletic, Moore told LaFleur to "go f— yourself" in practice after he was held without a catch in a win over the Packers in Week 6. 

Here's more from Rosenblatt on the heated exchange:

 

His frustration spilled into practice that week. That Thursday, Moore surprised teammates and coaches by blowing up on LaFleur, telling him to “go f— yourself” and “you suck,” according to multiple people who witnessed the interaction. LaFleur and Saleh ultimately decided to send Moore home to cool off. That night, he requested a trade.