Is there an NFL team with a weaker WR group than the Bills?

[stinky finger]

9 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

We had the ball with under 2 minutes back to back years and a chance to take the lead and did nothing. You can pretend that means nothing if you want. You can pretend that these defensive additions will prevent us from that scenario again. You can pretend this group of skilled guys are the type to elevate us in the final moments vs the best in the game. Any degree of logic points to none of that being true. Still doesn’t mean we didn’t need defensive help

more. 

Agree to disagree

[stinky finger]

8 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

It seems possible or even likely we would win, but I would say that conversation shifts more to us knowing how to utilize those new assets defensively vs if Allen is being better served in doing so. I don’t have a horse in this race to be honest. I just don’t think we all of a sudden will be in a position to protect leads come playoff time because of this investment. We have had very good defenses prior with very poor playoff results.
 

Is this investment chasing bad money with good? Does that even matter because the talent sucked so much it had to happen regardless? Just not overly confident in that side of the ball fulfilling its destiny as a playoff elite squad.  I wish we could have juiced both sides a little but understood we only have so much to go around. We will see, at the very least I’m excited to see what these rookies can do and even more excited to see some actual change to our schemes (I hope). 

 

Of course nobody knows if these picks will perform. No more than we'd know if they selected heavy on the offense.

 

Fact is, they correctly identified the unit that has continually let us down.

 

 

[stinky finger]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Bills have 3 slot WR and only 2 WR that can line up outside.  Most every WR can play slot.  But few slot WR can line up outside.  To have 3 slot WR and 2 outside WR is ass backwards IMO, and definitely not how you build a WR room.

Scoring is not the issue. Stop playing fantasy football. 

[Cray51]

WR rooms who are worse than ours (or at least in the same ballpark)

 

Patriots - Diggs is aged and coming off of an ACL issue.  They have Hollins, Douglas who is a decent young receiver, and Polk who was a disappointment last year

Steelers - they have DK and a bunch of guys who would struggle to make the roster here.  It's not a good group

Raiders - Meyers and a bunch of nothing afterwards

Saints - Aged Cooks, Shaheed is ok, and Olave cannot stay healthy.   That's not a good WR room unless everything goes right for them

 

So that's 4 teams that I would say are clearly below the Bills in WR room talent.  If you add in our TE's and RB's we are jumping a bunch of teams who have better WR groups but worse talent at the other positions.

 

All in all, our "weapons" around Allen are slightly below league average, slightly above league average when you include our very solid offensive line, and straight up top 3 when Allen is part of the discussion.

[Pete]

52 minutes ago, stinky finger said:

Scoring is not the issue. Stop playing fantasy football. 

Outside WR must be able to beat press coverage.  They run deeper routes.  They tend to be larger and more athletic than the slot.  Like I previously stated, all outside WR can play the slot, but there aren’t many slot WR than play outside.  That has nothing to do with Fantasy Football.  Your ad hominem input added nothing to our discussion 

36 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

WR rooms who are worse than ours (or at least in the same ballpark)

 

Patriots - Diggs is aged and coming off of an ACL issue.  They have Hollins, Douglas who is a decent young receiver, and Polk who was a disappointment last year

Steelers - they have DK and a bunch of guys who would struggle to make the roster here.  It's not a good group

Raiders - Meyers and a bunch of nothing afterwards

Saints - Aged Cooks, Shaheed is ok, and Olave cannot stay healthy.   That's not a good WR room unless everything goes right for them

 

So that's 4 teams that I would say are clearly below the Bills in WR room talent.  If you add in our TE's and RB's we are jumping a bunch of teams who have better WR groups but worse talent at the other positions.

 

All in all, our "weapons" around Allen are slightly below league average, slightly above league average when you include our very solid offensive line, and straight up top 3 when Allen is part of the discussion.

Pats added Kyle Williams, who average over 17 yards a catch last year.  Kyle is a stud WR

 

Saints still have Adams, don’t they?

 

Raiders- Have Bowers - the best TE in NFL.  And they drafted Jack Bech- my favorite WR in draft

[stinky finger]

15 minutes ago, Pete said:

Outside WR must be able to beat press coverage.  They run deeper routes.  They tend to be larger and more athletic than the slot.  Like I previously stated, all outside WR can play the slot, but there aren’t many slot WR than play outside.  That has nothing to do with Fantasy Football.  Your ad hominem input added nothing to our discussion 

Pats added Kyle Williams, who average over 17 yards a catch last year.  Kyle is a stud WR

 

Saints still have Adams, don’t they?

 

Raiders- Have Bowers - the best TE in NFL.  And they drafted Jack Bech- my favorite WR in draft

 

And you endless ranting is foolhardy. We lead the league in scoring.

 

Give it up. 

18 minutes ago, Pete said:

Outside WR must be able to beat press coverage.  They run deeper routes.  They tend to be larger and more athletic than the slot.  Like I previously stated, all outside WR can play the slot, but there aren’t many slot WR than play outside.  That has nothing to do with Fantasy Football.  Your ad hominem input added nothing to our discussion 

Pats added Kyle Williams, who average over 17 yards a catch last year.  Kyle is a stud WR

 

Saints still have Adams, don’t they?

 

Raiders- Have Bowers - the best TE in NFL.  And they drafted Jack Bech- my favorite WR in draft

How good are the Raiders?

@Pete If the Bills win the SB with this group of WRs would that change your mind?

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, stinky finger said:

 

And you endless ranting is foolhardy. We lead the league in scoring.

 

Give it up. 

How good are the Raiders?

@Pete If the Bills win the SB with this group of WRs would that change your mind?

Ok Grasshopper.  In the AFC Championship game, in the Superbowl, I want Josh to have weapons galore, enabling success.  I do not want to see Dalton flailing for a heroic throw, nor Diggs dropping the deep pass from Josh, or offense being crap against Cincy or any of our other offensive failures that ended our playoffs year after year.  How can you be against that?  
 

league’s change year to year, and it don’t matter what you did last season.  Why would you not want the Bills offense to be improved ?

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, Cray51 said:

WR rooms who are worse than ours (or at least in the same ballpark)

 

Patriots - Diggs is aged and coming off of an ACL issue.  They have Hollins, Douglas who is a decent young receiver, and Polk who was a disappointment last year

Steelers - they have DK and a bunch of guys who would struggle to make the roster here.  It's not a good group

Raiders - Meyers and a bunch of nothing afterwards

Saints - Aged Cooks, Shaheed is ok, and Olave cannot stay healthy.   That's not a good WR room unless everything goes right for them

 

So that's 4 teams that I would say are clearly below the Bills in WR room talent.  If you add in our TE's and RB's we are jumping a bunch of teams who have better WR groups but worse talent at the other positions.

 

All in all, our "weapons" around Allen are slightly below league average, slightly above league average when you include our very solid offensive line, and straight up top 3 when Allen is part of the discussion.

This feels very fair. That’s been part of the disconnect too. If we are just looking at WRs, they are bad. If we are looking at all of the weapons, they’re a little below league average. The backs and TEs are top 10ish groups. If you add the OL, it moves up. They are a top 5 unit. Josh Allen is the best player in the world at the most important position. They move up again. Is the offense good and are the receivers good are two different conversations. 

[stinky finger]

27 minutes ago, Pete said:

Ok Grasshopper.  In the AFC Championship game, in the Superbowl, I want Josh to have weapons galore, enabling success.  I do not want to see Dalton flailing for a heroic throw, nor Diggs dropping the deep pass from Josh, or offense being crap against Cincy or any of our other offensive failures that ended our playoffs year after year.  How can you be against that?  
 

league’s change year to year, and it don’t matter what you did last season.  Why would you not want the Bills offense to be improved ?

 

Pay attention here. One more time. We score plenty. The D needs to make key stops. Really simple. 

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I hope you are satisfied at this point.  Going into this off-season the concern voiced by many is the lack of separation and a guy that can stretch the field.  Palmer ranks high in separation ability and Moore gives the speed guy (I’d also suggest a healthy Samuel can get down the field).

 

It seems clear to me that Brady believes in his everybody eats philosophy.  As of today you have 5 WRs, 2TEs and 3 RBs that can all get out there and get the ball from Josh.  You have a strong O line and a complementary running game.  And based on last year this offensive philosophy works pretty well.

 

Brady is key to making this "everybody eats" a true weapon this season.  My hope is a very balanced attack that puts defenses on their

heals having to react to a lot of variables.

 

The 5 prominent WRs are all capable of 500-600 yards and a couple can get you 800.  Add the TEs and RBs and it easily gives Josh

4000+ yards.  The offense as a whole could lessen Josh's need to carry the team.

 

Many on this board are concerned about no having a "go to" clutch player for the 4th and 10s but the mere fact that any of the players 

having a chance to get the call could in itself be a unique weapon.  I for one am intrigued with this offense and look forward with

anticipation to what Brady and Allen can do with it.

[ddaryl]

4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Brady is key to making this "everybody eats" a true weapon this season.  My hope is a very balanced attack that puts defenses on their

heals having to react to a lot of variables.

 

The 5 prominent WRs are all capable of 500-600 yards and a couple can get you 800.  Add the TEs and RBs and it easily gives Josh

4000+ yards.  The offense as a whole could lessen Josh's need to carry the team.

 

Many on this board are concerned about no having a "go to" clutch player for the 4th and 10s but the mere fact that any of the players 

having a chance to get the call could in itself be a unique weapon.  I for one am intrigued with this offense and look forward with

anticipation to what Brady and Allen can do with it.

[Cray51]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Pats added Kyle Williams, who average over 17 yards a catch last year.  Kyle is a stud WR

 

Saints still have Adams, don’t they?

 

Raiders- Have Bowers - the best TE in NFL.  And they drafted Jack Bech- my favorite WR in draft

Kyle is a rookie third round pick in a weak WR class.  That's not a stud receiver.  He may be, but he isn't a more appealing option than say Palmer/Coleman/Shakir/Samuel.  He would be WR5 on this team with some work at boundary to see if he could make an impact.  Gabe Davis had 17.2 yards per reception his draft year too...

 

Saints don't have adams - their WR depth is Olave, Shaheed, Cooks, Kelvin Austin, Means, Cedrick Wilson.  I'd take Shakir over everyone listed, and I'd take Palmer over everyone assuming Olave is out.  Saints have a bad group, easily worse than the Bills

 

Raiders have Bowers, but Bech is a decent rookie receiver.  With that said, when we look at just the WR room, they are below the Bills.  It's not really close either.  Bowers and Jeanty elevate their room, but that's not the question - I was looking purely at receiver.

55 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

This feels very fair. That’s been part of the disconnect too. If we are just looking at WRs, they are bad. If we are looking at all of the weapons, they’re a little below league average. The backs and TEs are top 10ish groups. If you add the OL, it moves up. They are a top 5 unit. Josh Allen is the best player in the world at the most important position. They move up again. Is the offense good and are the receivers good are two different conversations. 

When I look at the roster, you could make a case the Bills are top 15 in almost every single position group except WR.  And it's not like their room is the worst in the league, it's just in the bottom third.

 

QB - 1

RB - Top 5

TE - Top 10

WR - 23-28

O-line - Top 5

 

D-line - Top 15

LB - Top 10

CB - Top 12

Safety - 15-20ish

 

So they are below average for WR and Safety.  I think if you are building a team and you said pick two positions to not be good/great at, those along with LB would be my choice.

[RoscoeParrish]

29 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

Kyle is a rookie third round pick in a weak WR class.  That's not a stud receiver.  He may be, but he isn't a more appealing option than say Palmer/Coleman/Shakir/Samuel.  He would be WR5 on this team with some work at boundary to see if he could make an impact.  Gabe Davis had 17.2 yards per reception his draft year too...

 

Saints don't have adams - their WR depth is Olave, Shaheed, Cooks, Kelvin Austin, Means, Cedrick Wilson.  I'd take Shakir over everyone listed, and I'd take Palmer over everyone assuming Olave is out.  Saints have a bad group, easily worse than the Bills

 

Raiders have Bowers, but Bech is a decent rookie receiver.  With that said, when we look at just the WR room, they are below the Bills.  It's not really close either.  Bowers and Jeanty elevate their room, but that's not the question - I was looking purely at receiver.

When I look at the roster, you could make a case the Bills are top 15 in almost every single position group except WR.  And it's not like their room is the worst in the league, it's just in the bottom third.

 

QB - 1

RB - Top 5

TE - Top 10

WR - 23-28

O-line - Top 5

 

D-line - Top 15

LB - Top 10

CB - Top 12

Safety - 15-20ish

 

So they are below average for WR and Safety.  I think if you are building a team and you said pick two positions to not be good/great at, those along with LB would be my choice.

Not really sure about these rankings. DL, safety and CB are very much question marks after the offseason. They have had significant investment but that doesn’t equal ability.  I don’t think Hamlin + Rapp is top 20 in the NFL if that’s the way the room shakes out.

 

More to the point, it’s very funny to me that in a topic that is largely about “should we invest more in WR” you rank the WR room like 10-20 spots below every other position group on the roster.

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, Pete said:

The point is anytime I voice my opinion that we need a speed WR, have for years, and substantiate with facts after facts- I get the ad hominem response “don’t you know we led in scoring?”.    So I present more facts that substantiate, and yet I get mostly responses that do not address any ideas and facts I presented

 

Just some honest feedback to your point above - when you keep making the same argument/points to people who differ in your opinion, you are gonna keep getting the same responses back.  I mean you are in every WR thread and even starting threads to just say all the same stuff thats been beaten to death already.  And lets be real, all this WR outrage is also coming off a season where the offense was historically great as a whole and appears, at least on paper, to be better today than it was when we last saw them on the field.  Keon has a year under his belt now, Palmer is a better down field presence than either The Ghost of Cooper was or Mack, our guys are healthy in Kincaid, Keon, and Samuel, and that was just the first full year under Brady.  

 

But I also get it, I was pounding the drum to get Donte Thornton all offseason who went 1 pick before us after we traded up.  I can assure you there isn't one fan that would have been upset to see us take a vertical threat WR.  The difference for me and many others is, we aren't sitting here coming of a historically great season offensively thinking because we didn't grab some Day 3 guy in a weak draft class overall for WR that we are screwed either. 

 

I mean I was I bummed to see us trade a 2nd time with Chi to get back to 109 just to see "my guy" Thornton go to the Raiders at pick 108.  Watching Embedded its clear it wouldn't have mattered, they showed they made the move to go get Deone before the Donte pick was even done.  But rather than freak out, I was still excited about Deone who filled another need (size) I also had been clamoring for.  He was a guy coming into this past season I thought was headed to be a first round pick before injuries held him back.  

 

If you don't want to keep getting the same responses back...maybe jump into some non-WR discussions...because lets be real, there hasn't been a "new" point brought up on either side about WR's in a long time.

 

Just my 2 cents

[Whites Bay]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I mean you are in every WR thread and even starting threads to just say all the same stuff that's been beaten to death already.

Thank you.

[T master]

23 hours ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

 

Right a great football team without any weapon that scares on you offense, one that depends entirely on the heroics of a single player, one that consistently gets close but can't get over the hump to make the Super Bowl. I desperately want the Bills to win one, and could care less if it's with McDermott or not.  Many Bills fans have pointed out, going back years, that the Bills lack any type of explosive weapon on offense (not just a gadget fast guy, but an actual plus starter that scares defenses). Diggs was not a top end receiver his last couple years with the team, he was borderline #1, good #2 type, yet Allen was forcing him the ball and we had no other help around him. That's why we saw addition by subtraction last year, along with Allen's continued development and continued chemistry on the o line. Like many Bills fans, I remain highly skeptical that team without a single offensive weapon that scares you can win the Super Bowl (and rightfully so). I hope I'm wrong, truly. I will be dancing in the streets crying tears of joy if so.  

There was one thing that kept this team from being in the big game last season (well besides the crappy ref calls in the chiefs game) that was our D !! The offense did exactly what it needed to do almost every game but the games that the Bills lost was the fault of the Defense .

 

The D couldn't stop the opposition when they needed to and if you look at almost every game but the first game against the Ravens which the Bills got stomped most every other game was by a minimal score usually never more that 7 points and if the defense was more stout that's alls it would have taken to make it all the way .

 

This year given what they have acquired in the draft and FA the D will be much improved because Beane & McD see what's wrong and usually fix the problem or at the very least try to . 

 

I hope if for nothing else the Bills win a SB with McD so that all those nay sayers can eat their words, they are so freakin spoiled with having a winning team that the 2 mentioned have built that they feel that anything less than being in the big game EVERY YEAR is a loss and it's not because every year the team is a different team .

 

But I live for the day that I can write a post to all those McD & Beane haters say TAKE THAT !! But when the Bills do win it they will be all about the win but will still be crucial about the coaching because those that complain will never be completely happy with anything Bills related they have to have something to B**CH about ...

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Outside WR must be able to beat press coverage.  They run deeper routes.  They tend to be larger and more athletic than the slot.  Like I previously stated, all outside WR can play the slot, but there aren’t many slot WR than play outside.  That has nothing to do with Fantasy Football.  Your ad hominem input added nothing to our discussion 

Pats added Kyle Williams, who average over 17 yards a catch last year.  Kyle is a stud WR

 

Saints still have Adams, don’t they?

 

Raiders- Have Bowers - the best TE in NFL.  And they drafted Jack Bech- my favorite WR in draft

 

This thread is supposed to be about how bad the Bills WRs are as a group.   The last time I looked, Bowers isn't a WR, so he doesn't count.  

 

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Ok Grasshopper.  In the AFC Championship game, in the Superbowl, I want Josh to have weapons galore, enabling success.  I do not want to see Dalton flailing for a heroic throw, nor Diggs dropping the deep pass from Josh, or offense being crap against Cincy or any of our other offensive failures that ended our playoffs year after year.  How can you be against that?  
 

league’s change year to year, and it don’t matter what you did last season.  Why would you not want the Bills offense to be improved ?

 

I want to see Mahomes/Lamar/Burrow and any other QB the Bills play on their way to a Lombardi sacked, hurried, and running for his life because his receivers struggle to beat our secondary, enabling our pass rushers to get home.    If the Bills defense had held the Chiefs to their average points per game in the 2024 AFCCG (22.6), there would have been no need for any final drive heroics by the Bills offense.   The pass rushers couldn't get to Mahomes because his receivers were beating our DBs almost from the get-go.

 

[ddaryl]

13 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I want to see Mahomes/Lamar/Burrow and any other QB the Bills play on their way to a Lombardi sacked, hurried, and running for his life because his receivers struggle to beat our secondary, enabling our pass rushers to get home.    If the Bills defense had held the Chiefs to their average points per game in the 2024 AFCCG (22.6), there would have been no need for any final drive heroics by the Bills offense.   The pass rushers couldn't get to Mahomes because his receivers were beating our DBs almost from the get-go.

 

You deserve one too!!!

 

[Pete]

34 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

This thread is supposed to be about how bad the Bills WRs are as a group.   The last time I looked, Bowers isn't a WR, so he doesn't count.  

 

 

I want to see Mahomes/Lamar/Burrow and any other QB the Bills play on their way to a Lombardi sacked, hurried, and running for his life because his receivers struggle to beat our secondary, enabling our pass rushers to get home.    If the Bills defense had held the Chiefs to their average points per game in the 2024 AFCCG (22.6), there would have been no need for any final drive heroics by the Bills offense.   The pass rushers couldn't get to Mahomes because his receivers were beating our DBs almost from the get-go.

 

I agree the defense sucked, but at the end of the Chiefs game, the D made two stops, giving the Bills offense two chances to win the game.  Great offenses win the game right there.  The offense has two chances to win,and failed two times.  Yes the defense needs a complete overhaul.  Why does the offense get a pass? 

[Low Positive]

While we are engaged in our yearly WR complaint session, one of the key members of one of the best WR rooms in the league went on IG and didn't include his starting QB in his personal top 5. It's causing quite the stir this spring as the temperatures begin to rise in South Florida. You can read all about it right here: https://finheaven.com/threads/tyreek-reeking-again.387172/