Is there an NFL team with a weaker WR group than the Bills?

[Big Blitz]

I fully expect the morning show tomorrow to pout about not landing that stud #1 WR in this God awful WR draft - as if trading for a Hopkins, Adams, Cooper, and others in season are just impossible.  
 

 

 

Everyone needs a reality check.  
 

This defense was BAD!  
 

Arizona week 1.  
Ravens week 4

Texans week 5. 
Dolphins week 9 

Chiefs week 11 - Hunt was their RB 1

49ers before CMC got hurt was shredding us 

Rams week 14

Lions week 15 

Ravens in playoffs - no Flowers

Chiefs in AFCCG.  

 

 

The offense carried the team and the defense in the other games played God awful offenses or teams with garbage at QB.  
 

This years schedule is just as tough.   

 

Bengals, Chiefs, Eagles, Bucs, Texans, The Patriots and Panthers will be better.  Steelers with Rodgers and those weapons who knows.  A healthy Tua and the Dolphins aren’t push overs.   
 

 

I would have used all 10 freaking picks on defense.  
 

Again, it’s largely bc I believe they are in position to trade for one if need be like we did with Cooper - who we could just bring back. 
 

The defenses we face are elite too.  A rookie WR in this class ain’t helping us vs Houston or the Ravens or even the Browns for that matter.  

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

32 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

I fully expect the morning show tomorrow to pout about not landing that stud #1 WR in this God awful WR draft - as if trading for a Hopkins, Adams, Cooper, and others in season are just impossible.  
 

 

 

Everyone needs a reality check.  
 

This defense was BAD!  
 

Arizona week 1.  
Ravens week 4

Texans week 5. 
Dolphins week 9 

Chiefs week 11 - Hunt was their RB 1

49ers before CMC got hurt was shredding us 

Rams week 14

Lions week 15 

Ravens in playoffs - no Flowers

Chiefs in AFCCG.  

 

 

The offense carried the team and the defense in the other games played God awful offenses or teams with garbage at QB.  
 

This years schedule is just as tough.   

 

Bengals, Chiefs, Eagles, Bucs, Texans, The Patriots and Panthers will be better.  Steelers with Rodgers and those weapons who knows.  A healthy Tua and the Dolphins aren’t push overs.   
 

 

I would have used all 10 freaking picks on defense.  
 

Again, it’s largely bc I believe they are in position to trade for one if need be like we did with Cooper - who we could just bring back. 
 

The defenses we face are elite too.  A rookie WR in this class ain’t helping us vs Houston or the Ravens or even the Browns for that matter.  

 

Chiefs didn't have WR1 Rashee Rice in either game against us 

[LABILLBACKER]

10 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

For those that want to know it, this is 2014-2016 for Carolina, then 2017 to current with Buffalo. What WR's Beane has drafted. I'm sure some will say he didn't have as much involvement in 2017 and he wasn't technically the assistant GM in Carolina until 2015. So if you want to exclude those years, Benjamin and Jones would be removed and the list would start with Coleman. I think it's more than a fair question at this point to wonder if we can draft and develop players at WR which seems to be our formula everywhere else.  

 

 

So it's safe to say he's never been involved in drafting a WR1 in his entire career.  

[Thurman#1]

23 hours ago, Pete said:

 

Is there an NFL team with a weaker WR group than the Bills?

 

 

 

Dunno. Probably a few. We'll see.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

So it's safe to say he's never been involved in drafting a WR1 in his entire career.  

 

D.J. Moore? 

 

Steve Smith? Beane's Carolina career goes back to 1998.

 

The highest he's ever picked a WR is 24th, with Moore. Not so surprising, then.

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

For those that want to know it, this is 2014-2016 for Carolina, then 2017 to current with Buffalo. What WR's Beane has drafted. I'm sure some will say he didn't have as much involvement in 2017 and he wasn't technically the assistant GM in Carolina until 2015. So if you want to exclude those years, Benjamin and Jones would be removed and the list would start with Coleman. I think it's more than a fair question at this point to wonder if we can draft and develop players at WR which seems to be our formula everywhere else.  

 

 

 

He didn't have any involvement in 2017. He wasn't here. And yea I would remove Kelvin too as Beane was still in football ops then. Which goes back to my point yesterday.... 2015 was his first year in the evaluation business. 

 

But the other point on Beane is the two guys he learnt under in terms of GMs he worked with were Marty Hurney and Dave Gettleman. Marty Hurney was Panthers GM for 15 years over two spells. In that time prime draft assets spent on receiver:

 

1 first rounder

3 second rounders

2 third rounders

 

That is 6 premium picks across 15 drafts. 

 

Dave Gettleman ran five drafts in Carolina. He spent ONE pick across five drafts on a receiver. Not one premium pick. One pick total. Kelvin Benjamin was the only receiver he drafted as Panthers GM. 

 

It's philosophical. Beane comes from a tradition of receiver not being a priority position. The guys he learnt under didn't value it. He doesn't value it. He has told us himself he believes Quarterback, trenches and defensive playmakers are the priority. Not taking a flier on a day 3 guy this past weekend isn't the biggest deal in the world. But I worry about what it tells us.... which is that Brandon Beane still just doesn't think the position is a priority. He'd rather have blocking tight ends and swiss army knife DBs.

[Doc Brown]

6 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Not having Josh Allen for 17 straight seasons is what resulted in the drought era. We would have been just as far with several of those drought teams as we have the last 5+ years by just adding Josh. 

If we didn't trade our 2005 first rounder to draft Losman in 2004 we pry would've drafted Rodgers in 2005 at pick #20.  Flippin Donahoe.

[Kirby Jackson]

One of the things that is kind of funny about these threads is that people are like, “the WRs need upgrading” and some are like, “yeah but the defense is bad.” Lol, both can be true. The people that were clamoring for a vertical threat between rounds 3-5 aren’t saying that the defense didn’t need to be addressed. We are simply suggesting that a vertical threat was a much bigger need than competition for Jamarcus Ingram, Zach Davidson/Gilliam, Dwayne Carter and Cam Lewis. The gap between those guys and the 4 guys drafted to compete with them is minimal (at best). The impact that a vertical threat could have on the offense is WAY, WAY, WAY greater than if they keep Hawes instead of Davidson or Gilliam. Again, no one was suggesting ignoring the defense. We are suggesting that one of the 18 WRs (or whatever the number was) drafted between rounds 3-5, should have been drafted by the Bills. 

Edited Monday at 10:38 AM by Kirby Jackson

[HOUSE]

Ok ok sign Amari Cooper but I don't need to be happy about it...

[oldmanfan]

20 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

One of the things that is kind of funny about these threads is that people are like, “the WRs need upgrading” and some are like, “yeah but the defense is bad.” Lol, both can be true. The people that were clamoring for a vertical threat between rounds 3-5 aren’t saying that the defense didn’t need to be addressed. We are simply suggesting that a vertical threat was a much bigger need than competition for Jamarcus Ingram, Zach Davidson/Gilliam, Dwayne Carter and Cam Lewis. The gap between those guys and the 4 guys drafted to compete with them is minimal (at best). The impact that a vertical threat could have on the offense is WAY, WAY, WAY greater than if they keep Hawes instead of Davidson or Gilliam. Again, no one was suggesting ignoring the defense. We are suggesting that one of the 18 WRs (or whatever the number was) drafted between rounds 3-5, should have been drafted by the Bills. 

So if the kid they drafted round 7 got drafted by us round 5 that would have solved your issue?

[Kirby Jackson]

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

So if the kid they drafted round 7 got drafted by us round 5 that would have solved your issue?

No, because he is pushing 4.5. He has decent long speed but not the suddenness to blow by guys off the LOS. He can be pressed. There were 13 sub 4.4 guys in those rounds. I could have talked myself into pretty much any of them (Thornton was my favorite option). I want my field stretchers to fly. Prather is better than no one but I don’t believe that he fills that role. Thornton’s skillset would be the perfect addition to this room. 

Edited Monday at 11:07 AM by Kirby Jackson

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

No, because he is pushing 4.5. He’s slow in the first 10 and 20. He has decent long speed but not the suddenness to blow by guys off the LOS. There were 13 sub 4.4 guys in those rounds. I could have talked myself into pretty much any of them (Thornton was my favorite option). I want my field stretchers to fly. Prather is better than no one but I don’t believe that he fills that role. Thornton’s skillset would be the perfect addition to this room. 

I looked it up. 4.46.  So let’s say you get someone who is a 4.3.  If I have the math right, the latter guy over 40 yards runs just over 1 foot farther over 40 yards than the guy running 4.46.  Has anyone in football ever shown that’s a meaningful difference?  I’m not trying to argue just for the sake of arguing, but is that a real difference on the field?

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I looked it up. 4.46.  So let’s say you get someone who is a 4.3.  If I have the math right, the latter guy over 40 yards runs just over 1 foot farther over 40 yards than the guy running 4.46.  Has anyone in football ever shown that’s a meaningful difference?  I’m not trying to argue just for the sake of arguing, but is that a real difference on the field?

 

I think the acceleration matters more than the top speed. It's the burst off the line. At the top of the route it is about understanding leverage, route running and the crispness of your breaks that dictate separation more than speed IMO. Where speed matters is early in the route - it is explosiveness. 

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think the acceleration matters more than the top speed. It's the burst off the line. At the top of the route it is about understanding leverage, route running and the crispness of your breaks that dictate separation more than speed IMO. Where speed matters is early in the route - it is explosiveness. 

I would tend to agree. Are there then other parameters measured during the combine that should be given more importance than total 40 time?

Edited Monday at 11:23 AM by oldmanfan

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I would tend to agree. Is there then other parameters measured during the combine that should be given more importance than total 40 time?

 

So I tend to look at the 10 yard split and the explosiveness scores (from the jumping) as a decent indicator for that initial burst.

[Kirby Jackson]

28 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I looked it up. 4.46.  So let’s say you get someone who is a 4.3.  If I have the math right, the latter guy over 40 yards runs just over 1 foot farther over 40 yards than the guy running 4.46.  Has anyone in football ever shown that’s a meaningful difference?  I’m not trying to argue just for the sake of arguing, but is that a real difference on the field?

It’s about explosion. The reason Prather, and his 4.46 went on the 7th is that he isn’t good at the LOS. He doesn’t beat guys quickly. Thornton would fit all of it (but he can’t do much more).

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It’s about explosion. The reason Prather, and his 4.46 went on the 7th is that he isn’t good at the LOS. He doesn’t beat guys quickly. Thornton would fit all of it (but he can’t do much more).

Then measure explosion rather than total time over 40 yards.  I don’t think they’re the same.  If, in the end, the difference between two guys over 4 yards is a foot, I don’t see that as meaningful and wonder why so much emphasis is placed on the metric.

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

If we didn't trade our 2005 first rounder to draft Losman in 2004 we pry would've drafted Rodgers in 2005 at pick #20.  Flippin Donahoe.

 

IMO, the Bills traded up to take Losman pretty much for the same reason they signed Terrell Owen in 2009 and  took Manuel in 2013: they wanted to excite the fan base in order to sell season tickets.  What excites a fan base of a losing team better than providing a "savior" in terms of a first round QB or signing a future HOF WR?

They could have had Losman in the 2nd or 3rd or better yet, they could have taken Matt Schaub in the 2nd who had a decent NFL career ... or they might have simply used the picks they gave up for Losman to draft OLers to protect their current QB at the time, Drew Bledsoe, and as you said, taken Rodgers in 2005.

 

12 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I would tend to agree. Is there then other parameters measured during the combine that should be given more importance than total 40 time?

 

How about size and/or the ability to catch the ball?   There are lots of speedy WRs who fall to Day 3 because they're smaller or they can't catch the ball consistently.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, SoTier said:

 

IMO, the Bills traded up to take Losman pretty much for the same reason they signed Terrell Owen in 2009 and  took Manuel in 2013: they wanted to excite the fan base in order to sell season tickets.  What excites a fan base of a losing team better than providing a "savior" in terms of a first round QB or signing a future HOF WR?

They could have had Losman in the 2nd or 3rd or better yet, they could have taken Matt Schaub in the 2nd who had a decent NFL career ... or they might have simply used the picks they gave up for Losman to draft OLers to protect their current QB at the time, Drew Bledsoe, and as you said, taken Rodgers in 2005.

 

 

How about size and/or the ability to catch the ball?   There are lots of speedy WRs who fall to Day 3 because they're smaller or they can't catch the ball consistently.

As a scientist I am all about gathering data, but I want to gather meaningful data.  Data that has correlative value, in this case data that shows me a guy has a better or worse chance of success in the league.  So with all the testing done at the combine I presume the league has done this?

[Turk71]

On 4/27/2025 at 3:33 AM, njbuff said:

They spent the two prior drafts from this one using their top picks on receivers for Allen.

 

If Kincaid and Coleman develop, the Bills willl be fine.

They used their top picks from the last two drafts on Kincaid and Coleman.......That's pretty sad imo.

 Sort of proves the point that they are clueless when it comes to wr