Is Cook worth it?

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

You’re right. 18 TDs most likely won’t happen again, but you don’t think Cook will hit double digit TDs ever again? In the best offense in the game? He will certainly have his opportunities, the Bills are trending further & further away from Josh in the goal line and short yardage situations. Why keep getting your quarter of a billion dollar QB pummeled? Hand off to the guys that are paid to get those yards. 

 

I said he will likely hit double digit TDs once more, but that's it.

[Richard Noggin]

On 6/30/2025 at 8:33 PM, HamptonBillsfan said:

Great take, the idea of stringing this out just because his history is not resigning RBs for big money after their rookie deal is fine with questionable backs but Cook’s 3 years is better than any back in the league from the standpoint of production and staying healthy.

 

I still need an explanation of what the heck the above bolded claim actually means, before we move on to sorting out what the below means.

 

On 7/2/2025 at 9:50 AM, HamptonBillsfan said:

Name the Alabama/Wisconsi back not named Henry, who’s incidentally 32 and making 15million, in the NFL the last 10 years, who is as productive and as durable as Cook. Don’t be misled, Beane’s reluctance to pay Cook is because he played fast and loose with FAs on PEDs and extensions to CBs who could lose a season with one more concussion or TEs who have no receptions but are good friends with Josh. If Cook plays on the same trajectory as the last 3 seasons he’ll be more expensive than extending him now.

 

[ganesh]

3 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

I still need an explanation of what the heck the above bolded claim actually means, before we move on to sorting out what the below means.

 

 

I still feel that Cook is asking for the sky with the intent to get traded out of Buffalo.  I don't think he wants to play long term in the cold North East.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

I still feel that Cook is asking for the sky with the intent to get traded out of Buffalo.  I don't think he wants to play long term in the cold North East.

 

 

Boy, I don't agree with that for one second. He just wants to maximize his earning potential. Which from the player's perspective makes total sense.

 

 

Edited Friday at 08:29 AM by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

On 7/1/2025 at 9:09 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

Remains to be seen. I am not sold yet that we are better at receiver. Maybe we are. Maybe we are worse. Maybe we are the same talent wise but different enough in style that we find more explosive pass plays. I hope you are right, because if that is true it might make for an easier Cook decision next summer (on the basis he doesn't sign a deal this summer).

 

 

We did keep drives going well. But that is a hard play to live drive in and drive out for 17 games plus playoffs. And even in terms of turning what was really 4 or 5 yards into 9 or 10 Cook is among the best in the NFL over the past two years. He was also THE best in the entire league last year at yards lost in tackles for loss - he was tackled for a loss just 21 times (second fewest among qualifying backs behind Jahmyr Gibbs) and those 21 losses cost us just 37 yards - the lowest in the NFL among qualifying backs. It isn't JUST that Cook can break a big one. He is critical part of their everyone eats small ball offense too. 

 

As to the contract, I agree the Bills and Cook are obviously apart on the overall value of the package right now. We don't know that is just AAV, it might be, but my strong suspicion is it is as much about length and guarantees. There are $15m per year deals I'd do, given his value currently to this offense. But he'd have to be willing to leave some team flexibility on the table in terms of guarantees and contract length for me to get there. I'm a don't pay running backs guy. But he is clearly the second best offensive weapon on the team behind Josh Allen right now and unless this O can prove to me it is built different in 2025 then my instinct is you have to try and find a way to retain what he brings without tying yourself to an expensive running back contract for the longer term. 

 

 

His 4.7 average is bumped up somewhat by 5.1 ypc as a rookie when he did not, for the most part, start and we have seen sometimes being just a change of pace guy inflates those numbers. He is a plodding backup level talent. Cook is way better at making the first guy miss and way better at getting 5 or 6 yards out of 2 yard holes. Because his vision is on a different planet to Singletary's. Singletary has had three starting jobs in the NFL now. The Bills let him walk after his rookie deal and replaced him with Cook, the Texans and the Giants ended up benching him for rookies. He is who he is. A plodding backup. 

 

 

Really? You're not convinced this group of WRs is better? Wow. Well, I am. I mean, we can't know, of course. But with Elijah Moore and Joshua Palmer? And Coleman in his second year? It's sure the likelihood that we got better. Injuries happen, and expectations sometimes aren't met. But we look significantly better. 

 

And yeah, we did keep drives going. Yeah, it's hard over 17 games. But we managed it with a poorer WR group. We managed it with Devin Singletary and Zach Moss a couple of years ago We've got Josh Allen. That's a huge part of the calculus.

 

Yeah, Cook's a big part of their everyone eats results. But that part worked just about as well with Johnson and Davis. The difference Cook made was his breakaway long runs. That's the thing he does that nobody else on the team is anywhere near as good at. 

 

Cook wasn't second in TFLs. He had the seventh-most in the league, with 21. Bijan Robinson, Derrick Henry, Kyren Williams, Josh Jacobs, Jonathan Taylor and Saquon all had more. Are you talking about TFLs per rush, maybe, or something like that? In any case, TFLs are more usually about blocking than they are about RB skill.

 

Well, yeah Singletary's YPC was bumped up by his rookie numbers. But he had more carries that year than other years. Sometimes being a change of pace guy improves your YPC. Sometimes not. In any case, his rookie numbers bump his total up, but not by all that much. And about halfway through that rookie year, Singletary was the starter. Even without that year his YPC is still very very good. And Singletary started most of the year for Houston as well. The Giants had him as a backup, though, after they saw what Tracy looked like. Singletary did not look as good last year, whether it was injury or the crappy line or just age or scheme fit or whatever.

 

Cook isn't as good as Singletary at making the first guy miss (or at least as good as Singletary used to be; I haven't kept close track of himsince he left the Bills). Singletary was one of the absolute best at forcing missed tackles since he joined the league. Cook is better at using those missed tackles to create really long runs, of course, and that's a huge talent.

 

Oh, but I'm totally with you about the contract problem not being just about AAV. AAV is just a convenient shorthand. But the Bills clearly don't think Cook is worth what he thinks he is. But I personally wouldn't do any $15M deals with Cook unless it was one of those things where there's a ton of non-guaranteed salary money in the last year of the deal that is very unlikely to ever be paid, the kind of thing Von Miller signed with the Bills for instance.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

On 7/2/2025 at 10:51 AM, HamptonBillsfan said:

Why such a critical bent towards a guy that has been better each year with tremendous production. He’s not a traditional smash mouth runner but what back in football was better in the red zone. Instead of acknowledging his nose for pay dirt you prefer to call his season an aberration. Please don’t compare Motor or Moss to Cook. Cook has been better than any back in football his first three seasons considering health and production. I’m so tired of using his pass blocking as a knock against Cook. Josh had 8 sacks the whole year. If we want to take advantage of Cook’s skills, Brady has to isolate him on LBs and safeties in the passing game more, get him out more on screens and make him feel wanted. You’re deluding yourself thinking you can just insert another back and not take a step backwards. Singletary and Moss were just OK and any success we had was due in large part to Joshcentric offense with Diggs,Davis and Beasley producing in their prime. I think 2 to 3 more attempts a game for Cook is the sweet spot to maximize production and keep him fresh for the postseason.

 

 

I'm critical in the sense that I don't think he's worth a $15M year contract. I'd be happy to get him back at a figure that's a bit lower.

 

And whether you're tired of it or not is beside the point, pass blocking is a knock, a legitimate knock. Just because  the OL is really good and Josh is damn good at escaping guys who get through the blocking doesn't mean we should stop taking blocking seriously from the RB position.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Really? You're not convinced this group of WRs is better? Wow. Well, I am. I mean, we can't know, of course. But with Elijah Moore and Joshua Palmer? And Coleman in his second year? It's sure the likelihood that we got better. Injuries happen, and expectations sometimes aren't met. But we look significantly better. 

 

I'm not, no. I like Josh Palmer, I do. But if he is your main boundary down field guy to try and get defenses to fear your outside receivers and defend the full 53 and a third yards then you are asking more of him than has been asked of him previously. He doesn't have the reputation of Amari Cooper who he is replacing either. So he isn't going to affect defenses even on plays where he doesn't touch the ball. He will have to prove he is a viable threat in that role for teams to respect him. Is it possible? Sure. I don't think it is in any way a given though. And Elijah Moore is a nice floor raiser, with a certain skillset but again there are significant limitations in his game. As for Keon. I'm in you gotta show me it. Go read my posts about him right back before the draft, hell before the combine in 2024. The exact player I described is the player that was there on tape in the NFL as a rookie. Maybe he takes a big jump, but unless the Bills are willing to commit to him as a full time big slot type (and they won't because they have Shakir) then the same weaknesses that are on his film are going to hamper him I fear. 

 

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

And yeah, we did keep drives going. Yeah, it's hard over 17 games. But we managed it with a poorer WR group. We managed it with Devin Singletary and Zach Moss a couple of years ago We've got Josh Allen. That's a huge part of the calculus.

 

We had a more explosive downfield passing game when we had Singletary and Moss. I'm fine with bang average backs like those two if the passing game is dynamic. Indeed that is my preference for how the team be built. But right now, it isn't built that way. If the Bills don't extend Cook before the season and their passing game can make more explosive plays no relying on Josh in scramble mode I will be all in on let Cook walk and draft another mid round back I promise you. But I am sceptical about them having done enough for the passing game to make that step. 

 

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Yeah, Cook's a big part of their everyone eats results. But that part worked just about as well with Johnson and Davis. The difference Cook made was his breakaway long runs. That's the thing he does that nobody else on the team is anywhere near as good at. 

 

Cook wasn't second in TFLs. He had the seventh-most in the league, with 21. Bijan Robinson, Derrick Henry, Kyren Williams, Josh Jacobs, Jonathan Taylor and Saquon all had more. Are you talking about TFLs per rush, maybe, or something like that? In any case, TFLs are more usually about blocking than they are about RB skill.

 

Yes. TFLs are bad for running backs. You want fewer, not more. He was second in the NFL. Only Gibbs was better at avoiding being tackled behind the line. And while of course blocking plays a part in that Cook was only 14th in the NFL in terms of yards before contact and was only a tick above the league average. So I don't think it is as easy as saying "oh its just the oline". The reason James Cook avoids tackles behind the line so well is he has ELITE vision for a running back. He sees holes that a ton of guys would miss. And he will find a way to get to that hole and pickup 1 or 2 where another back misses that hole and is dumped for a loss. And I'm sorry Johnson and Davis are not as good as Cook at that. They're not even close. 

 

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Well, yeah Singletary's YPC was bumped up by his rookie numbers. But he had more carries that year than other years. Sometimes being a change of pace guy improves your YPC. Sometimes not. In any case, his rookie numbers bump his total up, but not by all that much. And about halfway through that rookie year, Singletary was the starter. Even without that year his YPC is still very very good. And Singletary started most of the year for Houston as well. The Giants had him as a backup, though, after they saw what Tracy looked like. Singletary did not look as good last year, whether it was injury or the crappy line or just age or scheme fit or whatever.

 

Singletary is bang average. He's been a starter and lost it in three places. I don't know what you are seeing. 

 

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

Cook isn't as good as Singletary at making the first guy miss (or at least as good as Singletary used to be; I haven't kept close track of himsince he left the Bills). Singletary was one of the absolute best at forcing missed tackles since he joined the league. Cook is better at using those missed tackles to create really long runs, of course, and that's a huge talent.

 

He was good at wiggling around in the backfield making a guy miss then getting tackled by the second guy for a loss, sure. He isn't nearly as good as Cook at the quick movement of his feet to find a crease. Doesn't have the vision. Doesn't have the quick feet. That's why one is a back with two thousand yard seasons in the last two years and the other is likely battling for a roster spot on his 3rd team in three years. 

 

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Oh, but I'm totally with you about the contract problem not being just about AAV. AAV is just a convenient shorthand. But the Bills clearly don't think Cook is worth what he thinks he is. But I personally wouldn't do any $15M deals with Cook unless it was one of those things where there's a ton of non-guaranteed salary money in the last year of the deal that is very unlikely to ever be paid, the kind of thing Von Miller signed with the Bills for instance.

 

 

There are deals to be done with Cook that make sense for the Bills. Even if the AAV on it looks high. But yes, it would require Cook to be willing to leave the team flexibility. What he wants, presumably, is a bit of security beyond this year if he is going to play this year (which as I told this board when you were all speculating in spring - he 100% is going to) and what the Bills want is a bit of flexibility beyond that. I don't expect him to sign a long term deal with the Bills in camp at this stage but I can see a short extension that gives him some security and the Bills some flexibility as an option. Or he could just play without a deal. But he is going to play. And if he is healthy he is going to be the 2nd most dynamic player on this offense again. Then not paying him after 3 thousand yard seasons gets even harder. 

[HOUSE]

I see this thread is using AI for the automatic daily bump feature. 

 

[Mr. WEO]

Is Baby Knox worth it?

[Don Otreply]

We sure are milking this thread to death, but I am certain we as a group can continue to repeat ourselves for at least ten or so more pages…, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

We sure are milking this thread to death, but I am certain we as a group can continue to repeat ourselves for at least ten or so more pages…, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Im surprised we've managed to keep it to just this thread for so long. Usually we have a number of spawns at the same time on the Cook issue. We need 5 more Cook threads on the front page asap!

[HamptonBillsfan]

13 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

I still need an explanation of what the heck the above bolded claim actually means, before we move on to sorting out what the below means.

 

 

Do you need an interpreter? It means exactly what it says. Cook’s first three years are better than any back making more(Henry, Barkley and McCaffrey) with his production and health (availability)and team accomplishments.He should get a second deal soon. 

[HamptonBillsfan]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I'm critical in the sense that I don't think he's worth a $15M year contract. I'd be happy to get him back at a figure that's a bit lower.

 

And whether you're tired of it or not is beside the point, pass blocking is a knock, a legitimate knock. Just because  the OL is really good and Josh is damn good at escaping guys who get through the blocking doesn't mean we should stop taking blocking seriously from the RB position.

 

 

Great runners/pass catchers are rarely great blockers. If a guy is a monster in the red zone(16 TDs) and gets 1M on 200 carries, and a matchup nightmare catching passes against LBs and safeties. you just live with his blocking deficiencies. Henry and Barkley both come out on obvious passing downs. If you’re a good fan, stop dwelling on blocking and acknowledge what this guy has accomplished and his trajectory. What do you care about whether he gets 14 or 15 a year. It’s what is guaranteed and we need a great running game in Josh’s prime(28-32).