The Worthy Trade Keeps Looking Worse and Worse

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, LeviF said:

All this bitching and moaning about Worthy being as bad as Coleman (he's not) is just sophistry designed to distract the entire world from one simple fact: Mahomes is not playing well this year.

 

Josh is a bit up and down but Bills fans have way more to complain about with Coleman because 1. the plan was for him to be our best WR and he's not, even though the entire room is stocked with JAGs and 2. Josh, while a bit up and down, is having a slightly better year than Mahomes in spite of having lesser talent at the WR position.

Saying Worthy isn't as bad as Coleman is kinda like saying a dwarf is taller than a midget. While true, it's still not a great accomplishment.

1 hour ago, Mod_Squad_Reject said:

Who is losing sleep over Worthy and scheming to stop him , he’s irrelevant at KC. 

While I don't think anyone is losing sleep, his speed dictates how you defend the Chiefs on some level. He has wheels that have to be taken into account. Coleman doesn't even add that 

[Billsfanatic8989]

Worthy is not a legit #1 WR. But the Bills would be better with him than Coleman. Worthy can at least make positive contributions. 

[JP51]

1 hour ago, uninja said:

 

I feel like Coleman only runs two routes, a go route down the sideline or a shallow inside crossing route and it's pretty obvious which one it's going to be before the snap depending on down/distance. I feel like the org doesn't trust Coleman with a complete route tree.

I dont know if this is a chicken and egg thing... he can run them but they dont trust him... or they dont trust him so he doesnt run them... either way the match I think is becoming a bit toxic and maybe irreparable. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

2 hours ago, LeviF said:

All this bitching and moaning about Worthy being as bad as Coleman (he's not) is just sophistry designed to distract the entire world from one simple fact: Mahomes is not playing well this year.

 

Josh is a bit up and down but Bills fans have way more to complain about with Coleman because 1. the plan was for him to be our best WR and he's not, even though the entire room is stocked with JAGs and 2. Josh, while a bit up and down, is having a slightly better year than Mahomes in spite of having lesser talent at the WR position.

Josh is having a much better year than Mahomes.  We literally have next to nothing at WR on the roster (Shakir is Ok, but they have dumbed him down by at least 3 notches with the routes they have him running) and he is still making plays and finding people open all over the field.  And when they are not, he is running as well as he ever has.  There is no QB teams want to face less on their pure talent in the NFL than Josh Allen.  Sure Stafford and Maye are having great years.  But my god, look at the receivers they have to throw to.  

[Mod_Squad_Reject]

1 hour ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

Worthy is not a legit #1 WR. But the Bills would be better with him than Coleman. Worthy can at least make positive contributions. 

Do tell, he’s done zip at KC, & the Bills  hardly maximize what they have, if Worthy isn’t producing with Mahomes and Reid at KC what do you think he would be doing here in WNY with McD and Brady?

 

 

[Tulsabillsfanz]

1 hour ago, uninja said:

 

I feel like Coleman only runs two routes, a go route down the sideline or a shallow inside crossing route and it's pretty obvious which one it's going to be before the snap depending on down/distance. I feel like the org doesn't trust Coleman with a complete route tree.

After watching a replay of Sunday’s win over the Bengals, I don’t trust Coleman either. His rounded, lackadaisical attempt at a deeper crossing route almost cost us an interception.  His quick slant is the only route I would throw to him.  Even his go route isn’t much, & he shows minimal desire to fight for the ball.   He really plays like he doesn’t give a crap way too often.   I was hoping he good WR for us, but I will be surprised if he ever does. 

[BillsfaninSB]

Coleman and Worthy may not have differentiated themselves head to head this season, but I firmly believe Buffalo would be a marginally better team with Worthy on the roster.  I think there is no debate.  He has a unique skill set that other teams can’t ignore.  Coleman brings what to the table again?

 

In fact, I would argue that the Bills go to the Superbowl last year with Worthy on this team instead of Coleman. 

[jkeerie]

2 hours ago, Tulsabillsfanz said:

After watching a replay of Sunday’s win over the Bengals, I don’t trust Coleman either. His rounded, lackadaisical attempt at a deeper crossing route almost cost us an interception.  His quick slant is the only route I would throw to him.  Even his go route isn’t much, & he shows minimal desire to fight for the ball.   He really plays like he doesn’t give a crap way too often.   I was hoping he good WR for us, but I will be surprised if he ever does. 

Watching Coleman, in the snow he was very tentative with his movement.  I think that played a factor in any route beyond quick slants for him.

[BillsfaninSB]

9 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

Watching Coleman, in the snow he was very tentative with his movement.  I think that played a factor in any route beyond quick slants for him.

I agree.  Need to avoid labeling him too much as lackadaisical based solely on the Bengals game. 
 

 

[KHAN]

The biggest problem with Coleman is that it's another  miscast pick by Beane.

 

We needed an outside receiver, and Coleman is clearly a big slot.

 

We needed a strong side LB and drafted Bernard who should be a weak side backer. 

[Mat68]

Just now, KHAN said:

The biggest problem with Coleman is that it's another  miscast pick by Beane.

 

We needed an outside receiver, and Coleman is clearly a big slot.

 

We needed a strong side LB and drafted Bernard who should be a weak side backer. 

Wrs are weird.  There is a long history of guys taking a few years.  Usually the bigger guys.  If Coleman makes some plays down the stretch and makes a big catch to secure a victory in January or hopefully later will any of this matter?  I think that is still on the table.  

[Rochesterfan]

4 hours ago, uninja said:

 

I feel like Coleman only runs two routes, a go route down the sideline or a shallow inside crossing route and it's pretty obvious which one it's going to be before the snap depending on down/distance. I feel like the org doesn't trust Coleman with a complete route tree.

 

I don’t know - he ran multiple slant routes against Cincinnati- 1 that was almost a TD.

 

He is limited and needs to learn to use his body better, but when they play off - the slant has been there for him.

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, BillsfaninSB said:

Coleman and Worthy may not have differentiated themselves head to head this season, but I firmly believe Buffalo would be a marginally better team with Worthy on the roster.  I think there is no debate.  He has a unique skill set that other teams can’t ignore.  Coleman brings what to the table again?

 

In fact, I would argue that the Bills go to the Superbowl last year with Worthy on this team instead of Coleman. 

 

I don’t agree - Worthy is fast, but his catch radius and routes are really bad making it hard to hit him downfield.  
 

At least Coleman was run blocking before we got Gabe back and that helped a big part of our offense.  
 

I honestly don’t think Worthy gets hardly any snaps in Buffalo because his 1 trick doesn’t really fit with what we do offensively.  He can’t block and doesn’t make plays for a guy with his speed.  He becomes a lesser version of Elijah Moore when he was here.

[The Jokeman]

4 hours ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

Worthy is not a legit #1 WR. But the Bills would be better with him than Coleman. Worthy can at least make positive contributions. 

Cause 1 TD is better than 4? Or 315 points is better than 376?  

[BillsfaninSB]

11 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I don’t agree - Worthy is fast, but his catch radius and routes are really bad making it hard to hit him downfield.  
 

At least Coleman was run blocking before we got Gabe back and that helped a big part of our offense.  
 

I honestly don’t think Worthy gets hardly any snaps in Buffalo because his 1 trick doesn’t really fit with what we do offensively.  He can’t block and doesn’t make plays for a guy with his speed.  He becomes a lesser version of Elijah Moore when he was here.

You are kind of making the argument for me.  Gabe Davis, the guy who was to be replaced by Coleman, is taking away snaps from Keon.   If Palmer was healthy, I bet Keon would hardly see the field.

 

Obviously, I want Keon to succeed very badly and prove many of us wrong.   But this thread is pretty much about Coleman vs Worthy.   Right now, I would rather have Worthy.

 

As noted elsewhere in this thread, maybe neither should have been the choice and this discussion is pointless. 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Tulsabillsfanz said:

After watching a replay of Sunday’s win over the Bengals, I don’t trust Coleman either. His rounded, lackadaisical attempt at a deeper crossing route almost cost us an interception.  His quick slant is the only route I would throw to him.  Even his go route isn’t much, & he shows minimal desire to fight for the ball.   He really plays like he doesn’t give a crap way too often.   I was hoping he good WR for us, but I will be surprised if he ever does. 

Another factor is downfield blocking.  Did people notice that on Allen's 40 yard TD run as he broke into the open the new WR Cooks blocked his cover guy all the way into the end zone.  

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, LeviF said:

Bills fans have way more to complain about with Coleman because 1. the plan was for him to be our best WR and he's not

 

That isn't Coleman's fault, that's the fault of this regime for handing him a major role with no backup plan.

 

What does really bother me about Coleman is that he appears to not care about his profession. We know he didn't take his injury rehab seriously last year. Now this year as soon as he hit a little adversity he seemingly checked out. He's missed meetings and is running lazy routes. Mentally I just don't think he has what it takes to succeed in the NFL. I can live with being wrong about a player, but the Bills being wrong about the person is shocking. They've been so careful about selecting culture fits and they somehow ended up with a lazy immature manchild as their first pick.

 

I would take Worthy over Coleman right now if I could, no question, but he wouldn't solve all our problems either. He has 4.2 speed right up until he takes on any kind of contact at which point his speed becomes average. A strong gust of wind could blow him off his route. So you just can't rely on him for a major role. It turns out both teams lost the trade, unless something drastically changes for either player.

[Alphadawg7]

7 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Worthy

38 receptions/1 TD

 

Coleman

36 receptions/4 TD's.

 

Coleman was benched for two games and pretty much like 6th on our depth chart for targets right now.

 

And dont forget, to start the season, Worthy was their number 1 WR for the first 6 weeks too lol

[BillsfaninSB]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

That isn't Coleman's fault, that's the fault of this regime for handing him a major role with no backup plan.

 

What does really bother me about Coleman is that he appears to not care about his profession. We know he didn't take his injury rehab seriously last year. Now this year as soon as he hit a little adversity he seemingly checked out. He's missed meetings and is running lazy routes. Mentally I just don't think he has what it takes to succeed in the NFL. I can live with being wrong about a player, but the Bills being wrong about the person is shocking. They've been so careful about selecting culture fits and they somehow ended up with a lazy immature manchild as their first pick.

 

I would take Worthy over Coleman right now if I could, no question, but he wouldn't solve all our problems either. He has 4.2 speed right up until he takes on any kind of contact at which point his speed becomes average. A strong gust of wind could blow him off his route. So you just can't rely on him for a major role. It turns out both teams lost the trade, unless something drastically changes for either player.

I remember hearing reports that Josh had a big hand in who the Bills selected in the first round. Don’t know if that’s true, but if so, maybe that threw off Beane’s planning.   Would be hard to say no to Josh at this point.

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

That isn't Coleman's fault, that's the fault of this regime for handing him a major role with no backup plan.

 

What does really bother me about Coleman is that he appears to not care about his profession. We know he didn't take his injury rehab seriously last year. Now this year as soon as he hit a little adversity he seemingly checked out. He's missed meetings and is running lazy routes. Mentally I just don't think he has what it takes to succeed in the NFL. I can live with being wrong about a player, but the Bills being wrong about the person is shocking. They've been so careful about selecting culture fits and they somehow ended up with a lazy immature manchild as their first pick.

 

I would take Worthy over Coleman right now if I could, no question, but he wouldn't solve all our problems either. He has 4.2 speed right up until he takes on any kind of contact at which point his speed becomes average. A strong gust of wind could blow him off his route. So you just can't rely on him for a major role. It turns out both teams lost the trade, unless something drastically changes for either player.

 

I don't disagree with what you are saying, however, Coleman didn't have character concerns coming out, in fact, it was one of the things people loved about him.  Everything about him seemed to show the drive to be great.  So hard to pin that on the FO, I mean every year guys get drafted who don't have known character issues in college where their mental toughness in that way hadn't really been tested or had a chance to show.  

 

Unless they have gone through it already, it is really difficult to know is how they will react when not getting what they expect, not having the role they envision, etc when they may not have faced similar situations in college.

 

I think Colemans big issue is he is passionate and emotional and he wears those emotions on his sleeve.  And that can be a great thing or it can be an anchor on their career.  Look at Pickens, he had similar issues in Pitt to what Coleman has IMO on the character and personality side of things.  For the Steelers, they got rid of Pickens (despite the desperate need at WR) because of how poor his effort was when not getting the ball, the locker room and off field issues that plagued him when he was sulking about his role.  It affected his play, his energy, his effort, etc. because he felt he should be a bigger part of the offense, he should be getting more targets, etc.  

 

Pickens himself said he was very immature and had to grow up in that category, and now look at what he is doing in Dallas.  Of course its EASY for Pickens to say the right things now with him getting the ball so much which is what he wanted, so we don't know if he will revert back to his old ways if say his role diminishes there again.  But right now, hes out there playing balls to the wall because he is getting rewarded on the field for it, and will be getting rewarded in his bank account now too over it.  

 

Coleman seems to be seriously struggling with his role right now, and I think his immaturity and emotions are impacting his consistent effort and play as a result.  The tape doesn't lie, how he was playing end of that Ravens game is not the same film he is putting down right now, not even close.  I am NOT making excuses for him, he needs to get past this crap or we need to move on, plain and simple.  The potential to be a good football player IMHO is there for him still, but he hasn't learned how to be a pro yet.  And if he doesn't figure that out fast, I think his train is on the fast track to derailing in Buffalo and will be gone this offseason.