Diggs' Drama

[4merper4mer]

45 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

you're not good at this. Jefferson would have been right there for the Bills--because of the guy who was picked before Jefferson...

Completely missing the point.  Likely on purpose.

 

Your “strategy” involved hoping the Eagles would pick the wrong guy?

 

You may also be aware that the Bills traded for Diggs before the draft.

Edited September 1 by 4merper4mer

[Cubanmist 1]

9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He  needed Justin Jefferson

Perhaps JJ would have made a difference in how deep the Bills would have made it. 

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Completely missing the point.  Likely on purpose.

 

Your “strategy” involved hoping the Eagles would pick the wrong guy?

 

You may also be aware that the Bills traded for Diggs before the draft.

Don't bother...he's just here to argue. Insufferable. 

[Mr. WEO]

14 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Completely missing the point.  Likely on purpose.

 

Your “strategy” involved hoping the Eagles would pick the wrong guy?

 

You may also be aware that the Bills traded for Diggs before the draft.

the Eagles were locked in on the wrong guy.   Then they picked him.  Jefferson would have fallen into the Bills lap.  Why are you struggling with this? 
 

Yes the point of this discussion is that the Bills traded away the possibility of picking Jefferson before the draft.  

[4merper4mer]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

the Eagles were locked in on the wrong guy.   Then they picked him.  Jefferson would have fallen into the Bills lap.  Why are you struggling with this? 
 

Yes the point of this discussion is that the Bills traded away the possibility of picking Jefferson before the draft.  

On what date did the Bills trade for Diggs? March 20

What date was the draft? April 23

 

So you, as an everyday average Pats fan, knew:

 

One month ahead of time that the first 22 picks of the NFL draft would leave Justin Jefferson available at pick 23 and

 

The Eagles we’re locked in on one guy and 

 

That with the possible exception of CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson would outperform the rest of the WEO proclaimed loaded WR crop which included a now incarcerated top WR pick and several other guys that are either bad, meh or took years to develop.

 

Your giant “I told you all so” moment would have a multi year gestation process because of Diggs undeniable immediate impact as a Bill and only fully develop in 2024 or arguably 2023.  
 

This proves your point that everything was obvious and Beane is a moron.

 

You’ve almost convinced me but not quite.  Luckily there is a way we have a way to test this theory of the obvious:

 

The Cowboys just traded Micah Parsons to GB for two firsts and a DT.  Please predict with your Jefferson level accuracy:

 

How Parsons and the DT will perform

Who GB will select with each of those two picks, including any trades that may impact these pick slots and

How the selected players will perform both immediately after their selection and 5 years into their careers.

 

It’s all pretty obvious, right?  Just let us all know what will happen.  Thanks.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

On what date did the Bills trade for Diggs? March 20

What date was the draft? April 23

 

So you, as an everyday average Pats fan, knew:

 

One month ahead of time that the first 22 picks of the NFL draft would leave Justin Jefferson available at pick 23 and

 

The Eagles we’re locked in on one guy and 

 

That with the possible exception of CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson would outperform the rest of the WEO proclaimed loaded WR crop which included a now incarcerated top WR pick and several other guys that are either bad, meh or took years to develop.

 

Your giant “I told you all so” moment would have a multi year gestation process because of Diggs undeniable immediate impact as a Bill and only fully develop in 2024 or arguably 2023.  
 

This proves your point that everything was obvious and Beane is a moron.

 

You’ve almost convinced me but not quite.  Luckily there is a way we have a way to test this theory of the obvious:

 

The Cowboys just traded Micah Parsons to GB for two firsts and a DT.  Please predict with your Jefferson level accuracy:

 

How Parsons and the DT will perform

Who GB will select with each of those two picks, including any trades that may impact these pick slots and

How the selected players will perform both immediately after their selection and 5 years into their careers.

 

It’s all pretty obvious, right?  Just let us all know what will happen.  Thanks.

 

I think the draft also fell considerably different than many thought.  It was a high end class, and a deep class - and none went until 12.  Many expected 2-3 off the board within the first 10 picks - and as many as 5 off the board prior to buffalo picking at 22.  Reagor over Aiyuk was probably the surprise (and ruggs off the board before jeudy and lamb), but if ruggs/jefferson/lamb/aiyuk/jeudy are all off the board at buffalo's pick we'd have had the pick of reagor/higgins/pittman with a pretty big drop off after that. 

 

The potential to miss in this class was there, and acting like it is a no-brainer or that we made the trade on the clock is not a genuine gripe imo.  

[BullBuchanan]

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

the Eagles were locked in on the wrong guy.   Then they picked him.  Jefferson would have fallen into the Bills lap.  Why are you struggling with this? 
 

Yes the point of this discussion is that the Bills traded away the possibility of picking Jefferson before the draft.  

A rookie WR wasn't a good move for us at that time, and I'd argue Diggs had a bigger impact for us than Jefferson would have due to veteran experience and leadership. Diggs stepped in and was instantly the most impactful WR the team ever had. Rookie WRs are a massive gamble.

[thenorthremembers]

20 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

A rookie WR wasn't a good move for us at that time, and I'd argue Diggs had a bigger impact for us than Jefferson would have due to veteran experience and leadership. Diggs stepped in and was instantly the most impactful WR the team ever had. Rookie WRs are a massive gamble.

 

Have to agree here.  If the known quantity is good to great, why gamble on an unknown quantity.

[Mr. WEO]

27 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

A rookie WR wasn't a good move for us at that time, and I'd argue Diggs had a bigger impact for us than Jefferson would have due to veteran experience and leadership. Diggs stepped in and was instantly the most impactful WR the team ever had. Rookie WRs are a massive gamble.

well most 1st round rookies are a gamble, but WRs are commonly gambled on.  The payoff with Jefferson was immediate massive and lasting.  With a lesser QB behind Center. 
 

Bills as of last year were left empty handed, nothing of significance to show for the trade—-Beane etc are still stumbling through the WR room.  

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

On what date did the Bills trade for Diggs? March 20

What date was the draft? April 23

 

So you, as an everyday average Pats fan, knew:

 

One month ahead of time that the first 22 picks of the NFL draft would leave Justin Jefferson available at pick 23 and

 

The Eagles we’re locked in on one guy and 

 

That with the possible exception of CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson would outperform the rest of the WEO proclaimed loaded WR crop which included a now incarcerated top WR pick and several other guys that are either bad, meh or took years to develop.

 

Your giant “I told you all so” moment would have a multi year gestation process because of Diggs undeniable immediate impact as a Bill and only fully develop in 2024 or arguably 2023.  
 

This proves your point that everything was obvious and Beane is a moron.

 

You’ve almost convinced me but not quite.  Luckily there is a way we have a way to test this theory of the obvious:

 

The Cowboys just traded Micah Parsons to GB for two firsts and a DT.  Please predict with your Jefferson level accuracy:

 

How Parsons and the DT will perform

Who GB will select with each of those two picks, including any trades that may impact these pick slots and

How the selected players will perform both immediately after their selection and 5 years into their careers.

 

It’s all pretty obvious, right?  Just let us all know what will happen.  Thanks.

The date of the trade isn’t important—-obviously the Bills would trade AFTER the draft. Lol

 

But yes we agree Jefferson would have available for Beane to make a simple decision at 22.  
 

The rest of your post is indecipherable and otherwise not on point. 

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

well most 1st round rookies are a gamble, but WRs are commonly gambled on.  The payoff with Jefferson was immediate massive and lasting.  With a lesser QB behind Center. 
 

Bills as of last year were left empty handed, nothing of significance to show for the trade—-Beane etc are still stumbling through the WR room.  

How were they left empty handed? They got a 2nd round pick for 2025 which isn't a bad return and then they immediately drafted Coleman last year - which in theory replaces Diggs.

[BillsVet]

10 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

A rookie WR wasn't a good move for us at that time, and I'd argue Diggs had a bigger impact for us than Jefferson would have due to veteran experience and leadership. Diggs stepped in and was instantly the most impactful WR the team ever had. Rookie WRs are a massive gamble.

 

Beane essentially admitted this off-season that college WR evals are difficult.  And when you look at their 2021-2025 drafts they clearly avoid the position for that and likely other reasons.    

 

It's how you end up with UFA signings since the Diggs trade like Emanuel Sanders, Jamison Crowder, Deonte Harty, Trent Sherfield, Curtis Samuel, Mack Hollins, MVS, Josh Palmer, and Elijah Moore.  They've wasted so much cap room all because their amateur scouting people and the GM are scared at the risk of college WRs.  

 

I'd rather they have a Day 1 or 2 pick underwhelm at WR than not try at all because they're scared of a bust and don't know how to evaluate them.  That's a guarantee you'll have nothing in development at WR...because they refuse to draft them unless it's absolutely necessary.  

 

Compare and contrast that mindset to about 31 other NFL teams.    

[BullBuchanan]

21 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Beane essentially admitted this off-season that college WR evals are difficult.  And when you look at their 2021-2025 drafts they clearly avoid the position for that and likely other reasons.    

 

It's how you end up with UFA signings since the Diggs trade like Emanuel Sanders, Jamison Crowder, Deonte Harty, Trent Sherfield, Curtis Samuel, Mack Hollins, MVS, Josh Palmer, and Elijah Moore.  They've wasted so much cap room all because their amateur scouting people and the GM are scared at the risk of college WRs.  

 

I'd rather they have a Day 1 or 2 pick underwhelm at WR than not try at all because they're scared of a bust and don't know how to evaluate them.  That's a guarantee you'll have nothing in development at WR...because they refuse to draft them unless it's absolutely necessary.  

 

Compare and contrast that mindset to about 31 other NFL teams.    

Why would you rather have them gamble when we're in a position to win now? Most of the players you mentioned would be no worse than the 7th best WR of the 2020 draft, and many would rank higher.

The 2020 draft was less of a mess than many drafts for the WR position, but it still underwhelmed. I wouldn't want Ruggs, Reagor, Juedy, and Aiyuk wouldn't have solved our problems either leaving Jefferson and Lamb as the only guys who would've moved the needle for us in the first round. Looking at the rest of the draft, only Higgins, Pittman, and Davis have been material players over the next 13 picks, and we walked away with one of them.

Too much luck involved here to want to go down this road, imo.

Edited September 2 by BullBuchanan

[BillsVet]

11 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Why would you rather have them gamble when we're in a position to win now? Most of the players you mentioned would be no worse than the 7th best WR of the 2020 draft, and many would rank higher.

The 2020 draft was less of a mess than many drafts for the WR position, but it still underwhelmed. I wouldn't want Ruggs, Reagor, Juedy, and Aiyuk wouldn't have solved our problems either leaving Jefferson and Lamb as the only guys who would've moved the needle for us in the first round. Looking at the rest of the draft, only Higgins, Pittman, and Davis have been material players over the next 13 picks, and we walked away with one of them.

Too much luck involved here to want to go down this road, imo.

 

No one's talking about historical draft evidence, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.    

 

The issue is Beane's poor UFA WR signings which is his response to insisting at not taking them in the draft.    

 

Every draft pick is a gamble.  I've been hearing for years on this board how the draft is a "crap-shoot" because there's no predictability to whether a pick will succeed.

 

OK.  You pay a GM and his front office to get it right...as they did with Josh.  You don't pay them to avoid something for years because it's scary.  

 

People who want things guaranteed in life before making the decision are living in another universe.  I suspect there are more every day who are scared.  Time to put on big-boy pants.   

[2003Contenders]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

A rookie WR wasn't a good move for us at that time, and I'd argue Diggs had a bigger impact for us than Jefferson would have due to veteran experience and leadership. Diggs stepped in and was instantly the most impactful WR the team ever had. Rookie WRs are a massive gamble.

I agree. Note that in Josh's first 2 years here he never passed for 300 yards in a game. He broke that mark in his first game with Diggs.

 

For all of the issues I eventually had with him, I believe that Diggs' veteran presence played an instrumental role in Josh's meteoric rise back in 2020.

 

[K-9]

26 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

No one's talking about historical draft evidence, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.    

 

The issue is Beane's poor UFA WR signings which is his response to insisting at not taking them in the draft.    

 

Every draft pick is a gamble.  I've been hearing for years on this board how the draft is a "crap-shoot" because there's no predictability to whether a pick will succeed.

 

OK.  You pay a GM and his front office to get it right...as they did with Josh.  You don't pay them to avoid something for years because it's scary.  

 

People who want things guaranteed in life before making the decision are living in another universe.  I suspect there are more every day who are scared.  Time to put on big-boy pants.   

Poor UFA WR signings? While the track record is mixed and school is not yet out on Palmer and Moore, John Brown and Cole Beasley say hold my beer.

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

A rookie WR wasn't a good move for us at that time, and I'd argue Diggs had a bigger impact for us than Jefferson would have due to veteran experience and leadership. Diggs stepped in and was instantly the most impactful WR the team ever had. Rookie WRs are a massive gamble.

Like Diggs or not, he did a tremendous job and was a good actor for the first 3 1/2 years, at the end not so much.

 

The Development of Josh can largely be attributed to the rapport he had with Diggs.

[BillsVet]

3 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Poor UFA WR signings? While the track record is mixed and school is not yet out on Palmer and Moore, John Brown and Cole Beasley say hold my beer.

 

A mixed track record?  That's some serious revisionist history if it takes going all the way back to Josh's second season in 2019.  

 

If we're gonna go that far back, let's throw in Kelvin Benjamin, Jordan Matthews, and Jeremy Kerley from 2017-18.

 

It's funny because I haven't heard people refer to Beane as a "wizard" this off-season.  It's really a noticeable decline these past couple years.  

[K-9]

24 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

A mixed track record?  That's some serious revisionist history if it takes going all the way back to Josh's second season in 2019.  

 

If we're gonna go that far back, let's throw in Kelvin Benjamin, Jordan Matthews, and Jeremy Kerley from 2017-18.

 

It's funny because I haven't heard people refer to Beane as a "wizard" this off-season.  It's really a noticeable decline these past couple years.  

Yes, mixed. As for having to go all the way back to Josh’s second season, are we not supposed to judge Beane on his entire body of work? This is not a defense of Beane in the least, as he has more than his share of warts, but there is no denying that Brown and Beasley were solid FA signings at the WR position. 

[RoscoeParrish]

18 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Yes, mixed. As for having to go all the way back to Josh’s second season, are we not supposed to judge Beane on his entire body of work? This is not a defense of Beane in the least, as he has more than his share of warts, but there is no denying that Brown and Beasley were solid FA signings at the WR position. 

Brown and Beasley were great FA WRs.

 

the record since then is less that stellar.