Marquez Valdes-Scantling meeting with the Bills (UPDATE: Signed)

[Beck Water]

9 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Is it NextGen Stats that has the metrics for catch radius? It’d be interesting to know what Shakir’s stat is in that regard, because it’s not just a measurement of his arm length. I’ll guess his catch radius is actually pretty good for his height. 

 

It's not just his catch radius that's of concern given his short arms, it's his ability to hold off a DB  down the sideline.  If the DB has a grip on him with 32" arms, the physical vocabulary to break that grip is more limited ('cuz he can't reach him).

 

10 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

Gotta love the offseason: 20 posts with multiple people debating whether someone from a different continent is using an American turn of phrase correctly.

 

You know what they say about Brits and Americans, two peoples divided by a common language.

 

But you know, it's an American football board.  If a chap wants to communicate here, works best to use American football lingo appropriately, not debate about whether or not it's nonsensical.

Edited May 18 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

Did anyone actually post his contract details?

 

Do we know his salary yet?

 

 

 

[Billy Claude]

7 hours ago, Beck Water said:

Did anyone actually post his contract details?

 

Do we know his salary yet?

 

 

 

 

 

So basically he would have achieve none of these incentives last season (21 catches, 315 yds). Undoubtedly, the contract was designed that way to do not count against the 2024 salary cap. OTOH, he would have gotten $1M based on his 2022 stats (42 catches, 687 yards).

 

 

 

[Rocky Landing]

10 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

It's not just his catch radius that's of concern given his short arms, it's his ability to hold off a DB  down the sideline.  If the DB has a grip on him with 32" arms, the physical vocabulary to break that grip is more limited ('cuz he can't reach him).

 

 

 A little separation cures that...

[Maine-iac]

Watched the cover1 video on MVS.  I don't see the guy running past anyone.  People repeatedly saying "vertical speed" but I don't see him run past anyone.  He seems to do Gabe Davis things with maybe an extra step.  Am I missing something?  

[BADOLBILZ]

28 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

 A little separation cures that...

 

Yeah needing help to separate is why he needs to be in the slot or at least in motion where he can't be jammed.  

 

On the boundary.......Jam em' up........ride em' out........game over before it even starts for receivers with T-Rex arms.   

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

3 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

 

So basically he would have achieve none of these incentives last season (21 catches, 315 yds). Undoubtedly, the contract was designed that way to do not count against the 2024 salary cap. OTOH, he would have gotten $1M based on his 2022 stats (42 catches, 687 yards).

 

 

 

 I look at it like this....I want him to hit those incentives....even if he hits them all, its not a big price for that production.  This is a good Gave Davis substitute for the pass catching part.   

[Mat68]

19 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

Watched the cover1 video on MVS.  I don't see the guy running past anyone.  People repeatedly saying "vertical speed" but I don't see him run past anyone.  He seems to do Gabe Davis things with maybe an extra step.  Am I missing something?  

An extra step is the difference from 4.5 to 4.4.

[Rocky Landing]

15 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

Watched the cover1 video on MVS.  I don't see the guy running past anyone.  People repeatedly saying "vertical speed" but I don't see him run past anyone.  He seems to do Gabe Davis things with maybe an extra step.  Am I missing something?  

MVS is getting a lot of props on here for being "playoff proven," or whatever-- meaning he didn't drop the ball during the playoffs, and made some nice plays. But, to my mind, that really doesn't discount the fact that he had an egregious drop problem during the regular season. Those happened, and some of the drops I've watched have been terrible. And yeah, he's not fast, and doesn't cut well. But he does have upside. He blocks well, he high-points well, and he runs a nice fade.

 

Right now, the Bills have six WRs at 6'4", with similar traits, and if any other one of them had been on the Chiefs instead of MVS (with the hopeful exception of Coleman), I would imagine they would have been used in much the same way-- stretch the field ahead of Kelce, throw down some blocks, and target them just enough to keep defenses honest. 

 

Frankly, I don't see MVS as any kind of reliable answer to our X receiver problem. I think he's looking at a five-way competition with Claypool, Hollins, Shavers, and Shorter, and I'm not sure he's at the top of that list. His biggest advantage is that he caught some passes in the post season, and that he played for the chiefs, but I certainly don't think he's a lock. Hollins might have a leg up on him for special teams, and Claypool, reclamation project though he may be, might have more upside. They probably both have more reliable hands than MVS.

[Mat68]

5 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

MVS is getting a lot of props on here for being "playoff proven," or whatever-- meaning he didn't drop the ball during the playoffs, and made some nice plays. But, to my mind, that really doesn't discount the fact that he had an egregious drop problem during the regular season. Those happened, and some of the drops I've watched have been terrible. And yeah, he's not fast, and doesn't cut well. But he does have upside. He blocks well, he high-points well, and he runs a nice fade.

 

Right now, the Bills have six WRs at 6'4", with similar traits, and if any other one of them had been on the Chiefs instead of MVS (with the hopeful exception of Coleman), I would imagine they would have been used in much the same way-- stretch the field ahead of Kelce, throw down some blocks, and target them just enough to keep defenses honest. 

 

Frankly, I don't see MVS as any kind of reliable answer to our X receiver problem. I think he's looking at a five-way competition with Claypool, Hollins, Shavers, and Shorter, and I'm not sure he's at the top of that list. His biggest advantage is that he caught some passes in the post season, and that he played for the chiefs, but I certainly don't think he's a lock. Hollins might have a leg up on him for special teams, and Claypool, reclamation project though he may be, might have more upside. They probably both have more reliable hands than MVS.

He is wr 4 or 5.  If he wasnt getting paid 10 mil per year he would still be with KC.  He is  better than any wr 4 Buffalo has had in a while.  Has more speed outside than anyone since Jon Brown.  MVS is a role player.  Down the field he is pretty productive.  Using him more underneath doesnt make him more efficient similar to Davis.  The playoff game vs KC is the point.  2 similar throws and plays.  Sherfield was not able to make the play.  MVS did and has multiple times.  He isnt coming in to have 1,000 yards and 10 tds he is being brought in to do what he has done his career. 
 

[SoonerBillsFan]

MVS and Josh had dinner and hung out after he had his visit, then he quickly signed.   So I guess Josh is OK with him.

[Lionel Hutz]

On 5/14/2024 at 9:55 AM, Cray51 said:

MVS is a bulls alum, and as a fellow alum I always enjoyed watching him play.  He isn't top tier by any means, but if he comes in as a #4 that can push the boundary, there's nothing wrong with that.

I’m also a Bulls alum that is looking forward to watching him here. Might even get his jersey.

[ColoradoBills]

14 hours ago, Beck Water said:

Did anyone actually post his contract details?

 

Do we know his salary yet?

 

 

 

 

It was reported (earlier in the thread) that his base cap hit will be $1.5M.

[Billy Claude]

18 hours ago, Mat68 said:

He is wr 4 or 5.  If he wasnt getting paid 10 mil per year he would still be with KC.  He is  better than any wr 4 Buffalo has had in a while.  Has more speed outside than anyone since Jon Brown.  MVS is a role player.  Down the field he is pretty productive.  Using him more underneath doesnt make him more efficient similar to Davis.  The playoff game vs KC is the point.  2 similar throws and plays.  Sherfield was not able to make the play.  MVS did and has multiple times.  He isnt coming in to have 1,000 yards and 10 tds he is being brought in to do what he has done his career. 
 

 

I have to disagree with the bold.  The best recent Bills WR4 was Gabe Davis is 2020 and 2021.  I don't think there is any production statistic one can point to to say that MVS is better than Davis.  Career wise, Davis has also been more productive in the playoffs than MVS.

 

To those who say Beane has never given Allen weapons, I would argue that the 2020 and 2021 receiving corps with top tier guys at WR1 (Diggs) and at slot (Beasley), a very good WR4 (Davis), and also a pretty productive gadget guy (McKenzie), were in fact, elite receiver groups.

 

 

 

Edited May 19 by Billy Claude

[hondo in seattle]

23 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

Watched the cover1 video on MVS.  I don't see the guy running past anyone.  People repeatedly saying "vertical speed" but I don't see him run past anyone.  He seems to do Gabe Davis things with maybe an extra step.  Am I missing something?  

 

Much cheaper while a bit faster.   Cheaper is the key.  Goodell has Beane on a budget.  

[NewEra]

On 5/17/2024 at 8:19 AM, Doc said:

 

Who is that?

The guy that led the nfl in catch% while averaging 15.7 ypc

[NewEra]

22 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

MVS is getting a lot of props on here for being "playoff proven," or whatever-- meaning he didn't drop the ball during the playoffs, and made some nice plays. But, to my mind, that really doesn't discount the fact that he had an egregious drop problem during the regular season. Those happened, and some of the drops I've watched have been terrible. And yeah, he's not fast, and doesn't cut well. But he does have upside. He blocks well, he high-points well, and he runs a nice fade.

 

Right now, the Bills have six WRs at 6'4", with similar traits, and if any other one of them had been on the Chiefs instead of MVS (with the hopeful exception of Coleman), I would imagine they would have been used in much the same way-- stretch the field ahead of Kelce, throw down some blocks, and target them just enough to keep defenses honest. 

 

Frankly, I don't see MVS as any kind of reliable answer to our X receiver problem. I think he's looking at a five-way competition with Claypool, Hollins, Shavers, and Shorter, and I'm not sure he's at the top of that list. His biggest advantage is that he caught some passes in the post season, and that he played for the chiefs, but I certainly don't think he's a lock. Hollins might have a leg up on him for special teams, and Claypool, reclamation project though he may be, might have more upside. They probably both have more reliable hands than MVS.

Meaning he’s literally NEVER had a drop in the playoffs and has made several big catches to help win games.

 

He’s a player that adds a different dimension downfield while also being a tremendous blocker (in the run and pass game).  He helps short passes go for bigger gains.  He’s not our answer at the X.  He’ll play a role and the coaches will try and put him in position to do what he does best.  Get downfield, scramble drill and block

[Rocky Landing]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Meaning he’s literally NEVER had a drop in the playoffs and has made several big catches to help win games.

 

He’s a player that adds a different dimension downfield while also being a tremendous blocker (in the run and pass game).  He helps short passes go for bigger gains.  He’s not our answer at the X.  He’ll play a role and the coaches will try and put him in position to do what he does best.  Get downfield, scramble drill and block

I'm really not sure that the dimension he adds downfield is all that different from the other five 6'4" WRs we have on the roster. Mack Hollins is also a proven blocker, and a special teams standout. And while MVS didn't have a dropped pass in his 8 receptions in the postseason, I worry that may just be a function of a small sample size. It certainly doesn't explain a 7% drop rate, or a 50% catch rate in the regular season. Some of those drops were on short passes. At least one of those drops that I recently watched on an All-22 was on a check down. That's concerning!

 

I think MVS has a good chance to make the 53, but if those very real issues persist, there's going to be a lot of second-guessing going on. And with Knox, and Kincaid, and all the predictions of two TE sets (including from the HC, and GM), how many 6'4" WRs do we really need?

 

What we do need, is an X receiver.

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I'm really not sure that the dimension he adds downfield is all that different from the other five 6'4" WRs we have on the roster. Mack Hollins is also a proven blocker, and a special teams standout. And while MVS didn't have a dropped pass in his 8 receptions in the postseason, I worry that may just be a function of a small sample size. It certainly doesn't explain a 7% drop rate, or a 50% catch rate in the regular season. Some of those drops were on short passes. At least one of those drops that I recently watched on an All-22 was on a check down. That's concerning!

 

I think MVS has a good chance to make the 53, but if those very real issues persist, there's going to be a lot of second-guessing going on. And with Knox, and Kincaid, and all the predictions of two TE sets (including from the HC, and GM), how many 6'4" WRs do we really need?

 

What we do need, is an X receiver.

He’s never had a drop in any nfl postseason, not just 8 this postssason.

 

He’s a 2-4MWR…..what do you expect?   No one is saying he’s the second coming.  No o e is saying he’s the answer at the X.  He’s a piece that can play a role and make some plays.  That’s just the truth of the matter.  Those looking for a star, well, he definitely ain’t it.  Those looking for the future X, he ain’t that either.  He’s solid depth that can do some things that we need at a position of need.  
 

 

[oldmanfan]

23 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

MVS is getting a lot of props on here for being "playoff proven," or whatever-- meaning he didn't drop the ball during the playoffs, and made some nice plays. But, to my mind, that really doesn't discount the fact that he had an egregious drop problem during the regular season. Those happened, and some of the drops I've watched have been terrible. And yeah, he's not fast, and doesn't cut well. But he does have upside. He blocks well, he high-points well, and he runs a nice fade.

 

Right now, the Bills have six WRs at 6'4", with similar traits, and if any other one of them had been on the Chiefs instead of MVS (with the hopeful exception of Coleman), I would imagine they would have been used in much the same way-- stretch the field ahead of Kelce, throw down some blocks, and target them just enough to keep defenses honest. 

 

Frankly, I don't see MVS as any kind of reliable answer to our X receiver problem. I think he's looking at a five-way competition with Claypool, Hollins, Shavers, and Shorter, and I'm not sure he's at the top of that list. His biggest advantage is that he caught some passes in the post season, and that he played for the chiefs, but I certainly don't think he's a lock. Hollins might have a leg up on him for special teams, and Claypool, reclamation project though he may be, might have more upside. They probably both have more reliable hands than MVS.

Define an X receiver