Diggs trade aftermath...what this means for the offense, draft, other WR's still here...

[Chas56]

6 hours ago, billsfanmd07 said:

I still see the drop on the bomb vs KC. That killed his role as #1 for this team....That changed the game. Good teams get rid of players just before the decline.

So the Bills aren't a good team?

[90sBills]

57 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

YOU WIN IN THE TRENCHES - WITH AN ELITE QB YOUR WRs CAN BE MVS, TONEY, HARDMAN AND A ROOKIE AND YOU CAN WIN THE SB.  

That formula only works for Mahomes and KC. Bills need multiple all pro receivers otherwise it’s ‘not giving Allen weapons’. 

[NickelCity]

Picks after the trade:

 

2024

 

Round 1, Pick 28

Round 2, Pick 60

Round 4, Pick 128

Round 4, Pick 133 (compensatory)

Round 5, Pick 144 (from CHI)

Round 5, Pick 160 (from GB)

Round 5, Pick 163

Round 6, Pick 200 (from HOU)

Round 6, Pick 204

Round 7, Pick 248

 

2025

 

Bills 1st

Bills 2nd

Vikings 2nd

Bills 3rd

Bills 4th

Bills 6th

Giants 6th

 

 

 

I'd rather not lose 2025 picks, on the surface of it. So much potential movement for 2024 picks...if we stand pat in round 1 I can see moving a 5th and two 6ths for a 4th rounder (or two 5ths). Myriad possibilities. 

[hondo in seattle]

I think the potency of the 2024 Bills depends more on Brady than it does on Diggs' replacement.

 

I don't think this receiving corps is great, but I don't think it's impotent either.  Shakir's okay - not elite.  Samuel is a multipurpose tool with some speed.  Kincaid and Knox are an excellent TE duo.  Cook can be a good threat out of the backfield if learns to hang on to the ball.  

 

Somewhere I saw a chart that showed that both Davis and Diggs were below average in separation last year.  I wondered how much of that was their fault and how much was the fault of the OC (i.e. scheme and play-calling).  I think both were to blame.  So I'm going to be very interested to what Brady does this year with an offseason to implement his own offense.  I expect he'll follow KC's lead.  With so many teams playing 2-high against strong-armed QBs (and with Cheetah gone), the Chiefs started throwing more quick-hitting, underneath stuff.  I get the impression that Brady is the kind of OC who wants to take what the D gives him.  Hopefully, he does a better job scheming guys open than Dorsey did.    

 

I still think we need another quality wideout.  But as Beane said more than once in his presser, it's not September yet.    

[Kornfed]

It seems obvious that Diggs ego and antics got old and for a team that preaches family/togetherness he decided not to fit. Look at the start of last seasons mandatory practices when he created a distraction. Even something as minor as flossing on the sideline a couple years ago showed how he craved the attention. The man was great but he got sick of playing here and forced this move. .... We'll never know how much chaos/distraction he caused or what the effect on his teammates was. Mentality and togetherness play a huge part.... sports psychology is a real thing and it seems he became a detriment by choice. ..... shame. 

[LABILLBACKER]

11 hours ago, MJS said:

Yeah, there must have been a lot more going on that we don't know about. I know Diggs sent some mysterious tweets, but largely he kept the issues in house, and I respect him for that. Too many players go out and air their dirty laundry in interviews or on social media. Diggs didn't do that, regardless of how people feel about his tweets. Nothing was blatant.

 

That said, it's a real shame that he couldn't be more professional and control his emotions and attitude. He basically forced himself off the team, and that sucks.

Yup, the bottom line is his impact for the team basically disappeared after week 9.  His last 10 games saw 1 td and his 2 playoff games were irrelevant. Stef's impact to Josh's development is undeniable. But these last 2 seasons saw way too many unnecessary distractions that justified today's decision. 

[That's No Moon]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

I still think we need another quality wideout.  But as Beane said more than once in his presser, it's not September yet.    

I think they draft at least one and Hunter Renfrow is still out there as is Michael Gallup. Their price tags are dropping every day.  They'd do different things obviously, but I honestly don't know what they would want at this point.  Either one on a 1 year prove it would fill a role nicely.  There's also hoping that Justin Shorter shows something though I don't have a lot of hope for that.

[Dr. Who]

2 hours ago, 90sBills said:

That formula only works for Mahomes and KC. Bills need multiple all pro receivers otherwise it’s ‘not giving Allen weapons’. 

Cut the snark. The WR room needed upgrading before the Diggs trade. Be sore about it all you like, it's a definite priority now. 

The Bills have invested far less at the WR position than the competition in terms of early draft picks.

Mahomes and KC have Andy Reid calling plays, and the freedom that comes from building on a foundation of championship success.

You don't think that buys you some zebra love and Valentines from Roger Goodell, not to mention backstage passes to Taylor Swift concerts?

 

 

[90sBills]

55 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Cut the snark. The WR room needed upgrading before the Diggs trade. Be sore about it all you like, it's a definite priority now. 

The Bills have invested far less at the WR position than the competition in terms of early draft picks.

Mahomes and KC have Andy Reid calling plays, and the freedom that comes from building on a foundation of championship success.

You don't think that buys you some zebra love and Valentines from Roger Goodell, not to mention backstage passes to Taylor Swift concerts?

 

 

Did I say something not true?

[bmur66]

When all is said and done the Bills paid Stefon Diggs 80 million for 4 years. For a top receiver that is not all bad and they got something in return for him. Onward and Upward!

[Dr. Who]

3 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Did I say something not true?

If you put "not giving Allen weapons" in quotes, it implies sarcasm. I didn't read through the thread, so if that is not your intention, I misread your intent.

Edited April 4 by Dr. Who

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

8 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Wait, are you sure?  If that is the case, then trading Diggs was a great move as we only lose an extra $3M this year above what he was already gonna cost us.  So are you saying that essentially we got Diggs and his contract out of here for just a $3M additional cap hit this year and then we get cap relief next season?  

 

Because all I have seen is that he carries another dead cap next year of like twenty something million because we restructured him last year.  I mean I hope what you are saying is correct, that would be awesome

As best I can tell, that's accurate and is my biggest silver lining  to this. 

 

I didn't want the move. I do not like the compensation. But it does put the team firmly in the black for 2025.

 

I've talked about the window closing. I stand by that, at least for this year, but even if unpleasant I can stand by a year with lowered expectations. 

 

In the (I think reasonable) hypothetical that the Bills focus their 2nd-5th round picks this year on players who they think can be rotated in and will winnow out  2-4 starters a la Bernard in 2025 the team would have $27 M in cap space without restructuring Allen or cutting Von. They'd lose $13.4 for Groot's 5th year option, that I expect them to take, but that could be lowered with an extension. They'd have Shakir, Cook, Kincaid and presumably at least one more WR on rookie contracts, along with Samuel on a very reasonable one and the only potential loss on the O-line being Spencer Brown (who I think can be had for cheap unless he has a monster year). Most of the aging vets would be off the books by 2026 meaning that Beane would have the space to reinvest in Cook, Bernard, Shakir and Benford.

 

(As an aside, apart from Elam that 2022 draft class is looking impressive right now)

 

So while I am not thrilled at the move, I can see the plan.

[amprov56]

15 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Disagree...not saying we are for sure better, but Diggs was a minor part of the offense second half the season and postseason.  Our offense was fine and we went 6-1 to go from out of the playoffs to the 2 seed.  

 

If we draft a rookie that gels well with Allen early that can help command some attention, then I very much believe this offense can be better.

 

You forget...yes we subtract Diggs...but we have Shakir entering now his 3rd year and poised for an even bigger role and we have Kincaid entering his 2nd season and taking on a bigger role, and Cook broke out last year and poised for a big role again.  We are not devoid of talent, and the young talent now has a year or two of experience and will be better than they were last year.  

 

So net gain or loss with Diggs is not as extreme as people think.  And I think Samuel is a valuable addition too.  

 

The key will be how much the rookie can contribute year 1...if he comes in and takes off right away I definitely think this is a better offense in 2024 than 2023.

The sky was suppose to fall after Sammy Watkins left, the emotional attachment to him lingered for years; many will be lamenting Diggs well into the 2030's. 

Edited April 4 by amprov56

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

6 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

I think the potency of the 2024 Bills depends more on Brady than it does on Diggs' replacement.

 

I don't think this receiving corps is great, but I don't think it's impotent either.  Shakir's okay - not elite.  Samuel is a multipurpose tool with some speed.  Kincaid and Knox are an excellent TE duo.  Cook can be a good threat out of the backfield if learns to hang on to the ball.  

 

Somewhere I saw a chart that showed that both Davis and Diggs were below average in separation last year.  I wondered how much of that was their fault and how much was the fault of the OC (i.e. scheme and play-calling).  I think both were to blame.  So I'm going to be very interested to what Brady does this year with an offseason to implement his own offense.  I expect he'll follow KC's lead.  With so many teams playing 2-high against strong-armed QBs (and with Cheetah gone), the Chiefs started throwing more quick-hitting, underneath stuff.  I get the impression that Brady is the kind of OC who wants to take what the D gives him.  Hopefully, he does a better job scheming guys open than Dorsey did.    

 

I still think we need another quality wideout.  But as Beane said more than once in his presser, it's not September yet.    

While I agree about needing another wideout, Brady does seem to be pulling from Shanahan and the man loves his multi-TE sets. 

 

The big knock I heard about the 12 and 21 personnel last year was "yeah, but it's not getting Shakir on the field" Diggs and Davis were your outside guys.

 

Now? No Diggs and Davis.

 

The big selling point on Curtis Samuel is that you can play him inside or outside or in the backfield on any given play. While I don't think that Kincaid is a true boundary CB he can do it in stretches.

 

I am imagining something like this: do you remember that stupid little pop handoff in Week 18 that Miami was doing with Mostert and Achane in the backfield that was incredibly annoying until McDaniel forgot that it worked? Imagine Cook and Samuel in the backfield. Kincaid or Knox are in at TE, with Shakir overloading the strong side the slot. Presumably our freshly drafted X WR on the weakside.

 

From that formation you can:

A & B: Option handoff to whichever RB you think has the best matchup. (Cook or Samuel)

C : Have Josh run it himself.

D&E: play action pass to Cook or Samuel, with the other running their route

F: Bootleg for Shakir and TE with Cook and Samuel as blockers

G: Test their CB if our rookie WR gets a favorable 1 on 1

 

I am sure there are others, but that's a lot you can do with the same personnel matchups.

 

[Matt_In_NH]

18 hours ago, MJS said:

Yeah, there must have been a lot more going on that we don't know about. I know Diggs sent some mysterious tweets, but largely he kept the issues in house, and I respect him for that. Too many players go out and air their dirty laundry in interviews or on social media. Diggs didn't do that, regardless of how people feel about his tweets. Nothing was blatant.

 

That said, it's a real shame that he couldn't be more professional and control his emotions and attitude. He basically forced himself off the team, and that sucks.

I agree with this but I also think the Bills have some culpability for putting up with his antics.  Specifically giving him ANOTHER extension after the Tyreek Hill trade/new contract when he had several years left on his current deal.  There was no good reason to give him that extension since it kicked in after he was 30 other than he and his agent were using whatever leverage they had in the moment.   For the busniness of Diggs it was the right time to capitalize and he maximized his dollars out of Buffalo but it was not the right thing for the Bills.   In the end there was no way for Buffalo to make him happy.  The guy is immensely talented but reading Josh at pressers along with McDermott and Beane, it is obvious Diggs wanted to be force fed and for the most part they obliged him even though it may not be for the best of the team.  There will be a hole to fill but I believe the Bills will be fine without him.

[BBFL]

Hopefully this doesn’t force us into a position where we do end up trading up in the draft for one of the last consensus top 4; MHJ/Odunze/Nabers/Thomas…

 

Whoever we are on the phone will obviously know this enabling the chance to “fleece” more from us given they know 100% who we want. 
 

Im sure like many, given the trade was pre-draft, that 2025 pick is probably ammunition to move up this year. 

[<bills4life>]

20 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

I’m sorry but to say the Bills are going to be better on offense without Diggs and Davis is crazy too me. I like Kincaid and Shakir but you’re not going to convince me having Diggs on the field didn’t open up things for them. I think Kincaid will be a stud for sure…but Shakir let’s pump the breaks on that. 

Josh without Diggs on the field is still an unknown. Just a lot of question marks on the offensive side of the ball right now to say they are going to be better. 

They may not be better, but they may not be worse.  I think Curtis Samuel is actually an upgrade over Davis, who disappeared during long stretches of the season.  Not to mention shakir actually outplayed Diggs the last 10 games of the season.  Is it that far fetched that a rookie can’t come in and play very well?  Also let’s not forget that Samuel and said rookie will add speed to the outside which we have been severely lacking. This will help Kincaid, shakir, and cook be more effective underneath.  Some people on here lost their minds when Edmunds was not resigned.  I knew then that he could be replaced.  (Bernard was better)  People need to stop being married to the “name” of a player and look at the production.  Fact Bills were 6-1 without Diggs being the main focal point.  This was absolutely the right call. As a matter of fact I am saying that the bills offense will be every bit as good if not better this season. 

Edited April 4 by <bills4life>

[Pirate Angel]

The Giants need WRs, the fact they didn't have interest with Dabolls familiarity with Diggs should say something. Diggs seems to get 1000 yards then he dies off, his #s aren't out of this world. If we kept him I thought he might be more effective in a Cole Beasley role as he gets older, that's kinda Samuels forte.

[MikePJ76]

what it means is that the qb here will not have to asked about the former wr nonsense and weird online comments from his overrated brother.

 

now qb1 gets to focus on his teammates without having to worry he might say the wrong thing about the delicate flower with a huge ego that used to make himself the topic.  

 

This is a great thing for this team and the faster fans realize this the better.  A couple of young wr and samuel who is dying to be on a winner is going to change the atmosphere so much.  

 

This training camp is going to be great.  

 

meanwhile in Houston they are going to now handle a bunch of personalities that will vastly change their feel good underdog story.  Now they are a super bowl team and should win a championship.  If they don't they now have to manage those large ego's they added and when you don't win a championship with these types of guys they will tell everyone over and over its not their fault.  The texans got old and expensive at a bunch of key positions, much different than last years team.

[bigK14094]

19 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I will be the first to admit, I thought there was little chance Beane would trade Diggs before the draft unless one of 2 things happened:  He either got a huge offer he couldn't refuse or something behind the scenes made Diggs an "addition by subtraction" situation, kind of like Beanes first year here where he moved Sammy for a 2nd right away and then we dumped Darius for a 6th rounder to just get him away from the team midseason.

 

Well, we know we didn't get an "offer he couldn't refuse" given the overall compensation is pretty weak, especially for the cap hits we will take.  So, seems like there was more going on behind the scenes where Beane felt we were better off as a team if he was not on the roster this year.  So will be interesting to see what comes out after this, if anything.  

 

So where does that leave us as an offense with both Diggs and Davis, our top 2 WR's last 2 years, now gone?  I am gonna say this right out the gate, I think that not only are we fine, but we might be an even better offense in 2024 than we were in 2023.  Im no Diggs hater, but the reality is he commanded a lot of targets on a team that loves to spread the ball around.  

 

Looking back at last season, both Diggs and Davis were not more often than not barely showing up on the stat sheets during the back half of the season and playoffs.  Yet this team went 6-1 during that span to win the division and the 2 seed and almost made the AFCCG.  

 

Our roster right now:

We have an exciting nucleus of young talent on our offense today, even before the draft and with Diggs gone.  The combination of Shakir, Kincaid, and Cook are an exciting trio of young weapons who broke out last year and look to have bright futures.  Samuel is only 27 and here 3 years as well and is another quality weapon for this offense.  

• Shakir - He put up 611 yards on just 39 targets last year which is incredible.  That is an insane 13.5 yards per TARGET...not per catch, per target.  And that came with a catch rate of like 87% catch rate.  The guy made a lot of plays and was arguably our best WR down the stretch to obtain the 2 seed.  @BADOLBILZasked me what I think he can be and I flat out said this kid is a 1000+ yard WR IMHO on a lot of teams this year but would never get that chance in Buffalo (and no one likely would) as long as Diggs is here because he commands too many targets and then there are a lot of other mouths to feed after Diggs when you look at who is on the roster and the expected addition of a high round rookie in this draft.  
  • But now, with Diggs gone, I do think we will see Shakir flirt with a 1000 yards and maybe exceed it here in Buffalo this season.  There is still a lot of mouths to feed (Rookie, Samuel, Kincaid, Cook both running and recieving, etc) beyond Shakir, but I do think he will be Allens most trusted target this year and I will increase my prediction on him from pre-Diggs trade of 700-900 to now post Diggs trade of 900-1100 yards.  
• Kincaid - Like Shakir, his role just got bigger in terms of available targets.  How much bigger I think depends on how fast whatever rookie we take gels with Allen in the offense.  If the rookie comes in and rips off say 1200+ yard season, then I think Kincaid probably finishes more in that 700-850 yard range.  If the rookie is more of a 800-1100 rookie year, then I can see Kincaid hitting at least 800 yards and flirting with a 1000 potentially.  
• Samuel - I don't think his role changes much to be honest.  I think he is going to be a 700 yard type WR for us, a guy who is valuable but maybe his impact is more streaky.  Not a knock on him, more about there is only one football to go around and he has less time and rapport with Allen right now, so I think Shakir and Kincaid will have a leg up on targets, especially early on.  

 

Impact on the draft:

I honestly don't think this changes a whole lot for us in regards to the draft given its been very clear we were looking at WR early for a while now.  However, the biggest impact now is maybe in Beane's comfort on how aggressive he may want to be to get a guy.  With an extra 2nd rounder next year, he might feel more comfortable including our first next year if a guy he covets gets close enough where our first gets us there.  The 2nd rounder next year itself doesn't get us a lot of movement in this draft but our first can get us into the teens.  

 

Best case scenario for Bills (if Beane intends to get up and get a guy) is that these 3 things happen ahead of us:

1. A big QB run happens (Possible the first 4 picks could be QB's if AZ trades back with someone like Minny) 
2. Brock Bowers goes BEFORE one of the big 3 WR's (MHJ, Nabers, Odunze)
3. Someone over drafts Xavier Worthy before one of the big 3 after falling in love with his 40 time

 

If those 3 things happen, I think it is highly likely that one of either Nabers or Odunze fall into the back half of teens where using our first next year gets us into play for a move up to get one.  If only 2 of those things happen, still possible.  

 

If the Big 3 go before the 15th pick, then I think Beane might consider moving up for Thomas, although I am not sold he would be willing to go as high to get Thomas as he would one of the other 3.  

 

Predictions on next year:

I am actually quite excited to see more of Shakir, Kincaid and Cook next year to go along with a rookie and Samuel.  I think our offense has the potential to be even better in 2024 as it already proved better once those guys got more involved last year.  Diggs and the attention he commanded from the defense will be missed, but I think there are still plenty of weapons here and I think whatever rookie we bring combined with the talent of Allen will help command some of the attention Diggs was getting.  

 

I hate the cap hits...but I love the potential of what our young core and whatever rookie(s) we add to the fold can bring to this field as soon as this season.  

But, Cook is an unreliable pass catcher, in the same way Dawson Knox drops his share and more.