Matt_In_NH Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Agree with the premise here, this is why we should not give big dollars to good players like Knox and Gabe Davis. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said: Was he ever a top 3-4 receiver in the league? Maybe 2020, on the fringe. Probably was borderline elite then, but he's definitely not now, that's for sure I actually think he was borderline elite when he was with Minnesota, but not much he has done since coming here has shown to me that he is in the elite category on this roster. Good, sometimes great and even dependable, but i don't see elite. I see a fantastic route runner who understands assignments and the intricacies of the game, but his age is catching up with him and his ability to create separation and YAC has diminished on an almost shocking level lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toyo321 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 No, and the draft this year has to be the best draft they have had in the last 7 years. They need to restock the pool with young talent, that can make a difference on the field. We have had very little of this type of talent from the draft in the past 7 years. We have had a good player here and there, but seldomly has it been a home run type of draft with multiple game changing players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 10 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: Was he ever a top 3-4 receiver in the league? Maybe 2020, on the fringe. Probably was borderline elite then, but he's definitely not now, that's for sure Yes. 2020-2022. He was never the best receiver in the NFL but he was for a period absolutely the best route runner in the league and a sure fire top 5 guy overall. He wasn't that guy for much of last year. Working out how and why is the task the team has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) 15 hours ago, BillsFan130 said: Comparing to the chiefs and 49ers the 2 SB teams, here's how I'm going to categorize as elite: -Made 1st team/2nd all pro last year -Top 3/4 at position. (For example, Josh and Mahomes are elite even though they didn't get voted all pros) So for the bills I got 3 players but technically only 2 last year cause the Milano injury. -Josh, Milano, Taron. Chiefs: 7 players -Mahomes, Kelce, thuney, humphries, C Jones, Mcduffie, Sneed 49ers: Hufanga got hurt so technically 7 players -Mccafery, Aiyuk, T Williams, Kittle, Bosa, Warner, Hufanga, Chardavious Ward (I didn't include their fullback) So in the playoffs if you factor in injuries, bills had 2 "elite" players based on the all pro selection/my opinion. Chiefs 7 And 49ers 7 with the Hufanga injury. While the bills have a lot of good to very good players, I really think they are missing some game breakers on this team. What do you guys think? I don't think you can call Kittle elite anymore and Aiyuk certainly isn't elite. He is a very good player but not elite so you can knock that down to 5 The Chiefs, I don't know if Thuney is actually elite. I don't think McDuffie is. Sneed is but not McDuffie so again, knock it down to 5 The Bills have Allen, Milano and in my opinion Bernard and Kincaid are certainly trending in that direction. I still for now would put Diggs there but I think he kinda falling out of it So let's not make it seem like the 49ers or Chiefs are that much better than us. A few plays go differently in that playoff game and the Chiefs are watching us play Baltimore in the Championship game. I swear, people that think the Chiefs and 49ers are far and away better must think we would lose 45-10 to both teams. We can beat both if we don't make our own mistakes. That's just truth Edited March 11 by Buffalo03 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Josh,Taron,Milano,Diggs,Douglas Borderline- Dawkins,Kincaid,Bernard,Oliver,Miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 25 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said: I don't think you can call Kittle elite anymore and Aiyuk certainly isn't elite. He is a very good player but not elite so you can knock that down to 5 The Chiefs, I don't know if Thuney is actually elite. I don't think McDuffie is. Sneed is but not McDuffie so again, knock it down to 5 The Bills have Allen, Milano and in my opinion Bernard and Kincaid are certainly trending in that direction. I still for now would put Diggs there but I think he kinda falling out of it So let's not make it seem like the 49ers or Chiefs are that much better than us. A few plays go differently in that playoff game and the Chiefs are watching us play Baltimore in the Championship game. I swear, people that think the Chiefs and 49ers are far and away better must think we would lose 45-10 to both teams. We can beat both if we don't make our own mistakes. That's just truth Please read my criteria on how i put guys elite- it's the first thing I stated in my post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said: Please read my criteria on how i put guys elite- it's the first thing I stated in my post Aiyuk is not elite. Period. Neither is McDuffie or Thuney so it shouldn't matter what the criteria is 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 39 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yes. 2020-2022. He was never the best receiver in the NFL but he was for a period absolutely the best route runner in the league and a sure fire top 5 guy overall. He wasn't that guy for much of last year. Working out how and why is the task the team has. Ya he was probably around 5- For elite for my criteria, I personally used top 3-4 at the position . That's why I said borderline elite. It just depends what your definition of elite is 1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said: Aiyuk is not elite. Period. Neither is McDuffie or Thuney so it shouldn't matter what the criteria is That's your opinion. I wanted some objectivity to the criteria and one thing is for certain is all those guys made all pros last season. If you disagree with my criteria, fair enough but I think there has to be some objectivity to this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: Ya he was probably around 5- For elite for my criteria, I personally used top 3-4 at the position . That's why I said borderline elite. It just depends what your definition of elite is That's your opinion. I wanted some objectivity to the criteria and one thing is for certain is all those guys made all pros last season. If you disagree with my criteria, fair enough but I think there has to be some objectivity to this So, your Criteria puts Aiyuk on the same level as Justin Jefferson, Jamaar Chase, CeeDee Lamb, DeVante Adams, AJ Brown? Sorry but I disagree because disagreeing would be right, not just an opinion lol Edited March 11 by Buffalo03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 Just now, Buffalo03 said: So, your Criteria puts Aiyuk on the same level as Justin Jefferson, Jamaar Chase, CeeDee Lamb, DeVante Adams, AJ Brown? Sorry but I disagree because disagreeing would be right, not just an opinion lol You have deeply studied Aiyuk, Thuney, Mcduffie relative to all the other players at their positions , or are you just basing it on "name recognition "? You must have a lot of time on your hands if you can study all those guys every play and compare them to other players at their relative position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: You have deeply studied Aiyuk, Thuney, Mcduffie relative to all the other players at their positions , or are you just basing it on "name recognition "? You must have a lot of time on your hands if you can study all those guys every play and compare them to other players at their relative position Are you high when you watch games? I don't need to study them deeply to know that Aiyuk is not on those guys levels. You would have to be blind to not see it. There are easily 15 to 20 WRs that I or anyone would put in front of Aiyuk. He's good but he isn't elite. Your criteria is extremely flawed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiracleAtRich1393 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 This is why I would make a huge move up as far as #6 if Nabers is still there. I think he will be elite in short order for the next 8 years or so, the first half of which would be on a cost-controlled deal. Will have to use some resources to make it happen of course, but I don't see us obtaining another "elite" WR via free agency any time soon, so make it happen through the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said: Are you high when you watch games? I don't need to study them deeply to know that Aiyuk is not on those guys levels. You would have to be blind to not see it. There are easily 15 to 20 WRs that I or anyone would put in front of Aiyuk. He's good but he isn't elite. Your criteria is extremely flawed Ok let's compare to some of the guys you said last year. Jefferson- basically missed all season. Adams- Aiyuk had more yards/tds Chase- Aiyuk had more yards/tds. So once again- you are basing it off name recognition with absolutely 0 objectivity to back up what you're saying based on the 2023 nfl season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 I think elite also applies to positional value. Milano, when healthy, is elite at LB... but I mean.. ok.. he's a linebacker. Chiefs are currently elite at QB, TE, DT and CB. And while TE typically isn't it, when you have an All-Time great, it's a bit different. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said: Ok let's compare to some of the guys you said last year. Jefferson- basically missed all season. Adams- Aiyuk had more yards/tds Chase- Aiyuk had more yards/tds. So once again- you are basing it off name recognition with absolutely 0 objectivity to back up what you're saying based on the 2023 nfl season. So, Jefferson missed a lot of last season. That puts Aiyuk right on par. Got it. Chase also had Jake Browning throwing to him for half the season. DeVante Adams had Aiden O'Connell throwing to him for a lot of the season along with other retreads. The fact that Aiyui had more yards means nothing. He is not on their level. It's not name recognition, they are better players. Those guys are the best of the best in this league. Aiyuk is not there yet. Again, very good player, not an elite player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 There are a few elite players we could add that are probably within our price range. DJ Reader & Derrick Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 Just now, Buffalo03 said: So, Jefferson missed a lot of last season. That puts Aiyuk right on par. Got it. Chase also had Jake Browning throwing to him for half the season. DeVante Adams had Aiden O'Connell throwing to him for a lot of the season along with other retreads. The fact that Aiyui had more yards means nothing. He is not on their level. It's not name recognition, they are better players. Those guys are the best of the best in this league. Aiyuk is not there yet. Again, very good player, not an elite player Ok so now we are going to put other circumstances into it because you have no other thing to back up what you're saying? It's not 2022. Or 2021. Aiyuk was an absolute stud last year and was better than Jefferson (due to injury), chase and adams. I'm not gonna reply back unless you have any objective thing to state , opposed to your argument,"trust me bro". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: Ok so now we are going to put other circumstances into it because you have no other thing to back up what you're saying? It's not 2022. Or 2021. Aiyuk was an absolute stud last year and was better than Jefferson (due to injury), chase and adams. I'm not gonna reply back unless you have any objective thing to state , opposed to your argument,"trust me bro". I don't think Aiyuk is elite either. It isn't about numbers for me so much as it is about film. He is just a tick below an elite level talent. He doesn't dominate corners in that same way. On the other two - Thuney 100% is elite. And so is McDuffie (but with the caveat that he is an elite slot corner. He is not a proven elite boundary corner). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 Just now, GunnerBill said: I don't think Aiyuk is elite either. It isn't about numbers for me so much as it is about film. He is just a tick below an elite level talent. He doesn't dominate corners in that same way. On the other two - Thuney 100% is elite. And so is McDuffie (but with the caveat that he is an elite slot corner. He is not a proven elite boundary corner). To be honest I don't think he is elite in like a top 5 guy either, but he definitely deserved getting to the all pro team last year. Like he was def better than Adams and chase last year who are considered "elite" receivers. Agreed on thuney and Mcduffie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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