Browns interview Ken Dorsey for OC position

[DrBob806]

2 hours ago, JohnNord said:

He wasn’t as horrible as some make him out to be, but at the same time, the offense was very disjointed.  There were times he called a lot of passing plays without giving Josh enough answers on offense for the defense he was facing.  It seems like the Dorsey was all about big plays to Diggs or nothing.  

I also don’t think Dorsey used her personnel nearly as well as Brady does.  So while Dorsey wasn’t a dumpster fire offense, the team needed a spark.

 

Actually, I think Diggs' ego is the problem. Sure, he's good and has "the fire," but he's as diva as they come. 

[Mister Defense]

5 hours ago, JimBob2232 said:

 

Disagree.  He failed because he had Josh Allen and tried to protect him and not let him be Josh Allen.   If he goes to a team without Josh Allen, chances are he has to work with what he has - and I think he can be quite good.  Its a risk for any team, but I'd consider taking a chance if I was looking for an OC.

 

He got a bit of a raw deal here.  we needed to change to get a spark.  He was the sacrificial lamb to some extent.  Much more so than the actual root cause of the problem.

 

"Quite good" is an understatement! And no 'risk' at all, as Dorsey is almost a sure thing.

 

And a raw deal here indeed, as any reasonable thinker would have to agree.  Soo unfair the way he was treated here, as he was clearly leading this offense to greatness, getting the best out of his players, and, most importantly,  the offense showing improvement here week after week after week...

 

I am still hoping the Bills can find their way back to that glory and success they had under Dorsey. (Maybe Brady will get together with him in the off season to pick his brain?)

 

In my view, they have just had historically good luck since he left and it is just a major coincidence that they went from 6-6 under Dorsey this year, to 7-1 under Brady.  The luck of the draw. Any fool can clearly see that.

 

Get it done, Browns!

 

 

 

Edited January 21 by Mister Defense

[BBFL]

Just now, Mister Defense said:

 

"Quite good" is an understatement! And no 'risk' at all, as he is almost as sure thing.

 

And a raw deal here indeed, as any reasonable thinker would have to agree.  Soo unfair the way he was treated here, as he was clearly leading this offense to greatness, getting the best out of his players, and, most importantly,  the offense showing improvement here week after week after week...

 

I am still hoping the Bills can find their way back to that glory and success they had under Dorsey. (Maybe Brady will get together with him in the off season to pick his brain?)

 

In my view, they have just had historically good luck since he left and it is just a major coincidence that they went from 6-6 under Dorsey this year, to 7-1 under Brady.  The luck of the draw. Any fool can clearly see that.

 

 

 

Get it done, Browns!

 

I agree with certain elements and believe Dorsey was the unfortunate fall guy for a lot of failings throughout the team that led us to where we were. 
 

Saw a video a few weeks after where they were talking about that with Josh and he mentioned something along the lines of “we let Ken down”. 
 

I don’t believe it was the right decision but I do feel the change had the right affect on the team. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Merge if needed.  Alex Van Pelt is a better OC (ask Jim Kelly and Aaron Rodgers) and they are stepping backwards into a pile which is brown and smells bad.

How do you know about Van Pelt? He wasn't even calling plays in Cleveland.  Dorsey had a top 5 offense last year. 

I really have no idea about either but at least Dorsey was calling the plays. 

[Augie]

5 hours ago, Mango said:

Dorsey was part of building this thing. By all counts he’s a good X’s and O’s coach and a smart guy. But he seems to lack in his feel for play calling. If he can get better at that then he’s a good get for somebody. 
 

I have no ill will for the guy. Good luck out there Ken.

 

Along with the play calling, I’d suggest he self-scout his leadership traits. I don’t care how much they love you, leaders generally keep their cool and show more control. Emotions are great, but with self control. That was not a great look and it sticks with me, unfortunately. 

 

But we were scoring with him, and he deserves another shot. Good luck without Josh. The degree of difficulty just went way up! 

[Don Otreply]

4 hours ago, Bill Grundy said:

 

wrong team. wrong QB. 

Agree, I believe KD, like others have pointed out, had a overly complicated scheme, with not much feel for play call sequencing / feel for game flow, maybe he will find a better fit with some other team, 

[JohnNord]

19 minutes ago, DrBob806 said:

Actually, I think Diggs' ego is the problem. Sure, he's good and has "the fire," but he's as diva as they come. 

There may be an element of this, but he’s getting less stats under Brady than he did with Dorsey and it doesn’t seem to be a problem

[Augie]

22 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

There may be an element of this, but he’s getting less stats under Brady than he did with Dorsey and it doesn’t seem to be a problem

 

Like with Bass, I think there has been some nagging physical issue that we aren’t fully aware of. It’s hard to judge this time of year because you never know how beat up they really are. 

[Mister Defense]

3 hours ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said:

Dorsey was fine. McDermott was the one holding Josh back imo due to his off-season comments about how he has to change the way he plays.
 

Ken was fired after the 12 men on the field debacle which wasn’t even his fault.

 

 

So0 true--MCDermott just happened to get monumentally lucky that Brady's offense is so much more consistent and productive than Dorsey's this year, and that they have won almost every game since the change.  Guys like McDermott always seem to get lucky like that, and that is why he is hated by some.

 

One day that jerk Sean will get his too, and be fired, just like he shamelessly fired Dorsey for no good reason at all.  You nailed it soo well, as it was all about McDermott forcing poor Dorsey to his dirty work. Honestly, Dorsey was one of a kind--and I hope the Browns, or even the Patriots get him for next year. The Pats really should consider it, though it would strike fear in any Bills' fan with half a brain.

 

But I hope the Pegulas wait to fire ol' Sean (and the very lucky Brady) until after this almost miraculous turn around, playoff and championship run is complete!

 

 

 

 

[ganesh]

5 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

In fairness to Dorsey, if you listen to all of McDermott's comments about Josh Allen through the entirety of last offseason, it's clear that Dorsey was doing what McDermott wanted... to have Josh run less. That's on McDermott.

 

Joe Brady has done 2 things that Dorsey couldn't that have had a huge difference:

 

1) He has convinced McDermott that Josh needs to run more.

 

2) He has gotten Josh back to the level of discipline that he had under Brian Daboll where he's not trying to throw a grand slam home run on every play. Daboll was pretty good at this whereas Dorsey failed to reign in Josh.

 

Repeating myself yet again but in 2020 Josh completed 69.2% of his passes and threw only 10 INTs. His INT % was 1.7%, the lowest of his career. This year Josh is at 3.1%, the highest since he was a rookie however he's been playing with more discipline lately in the passing game.

 

Josh will have to be nearly flawless for us to reach the summit.

 

 

 

BTW @JimBob2232, congratulations on getting the Indy job!

 

https://www.colts.com/team/coaches-roster/jim-bob-cooter

 

I think there was an article that showed the INT split between when he was coached by Ken and when Brady was calling the plays.  The numbers were much lesser in the 2nd half.  Go Bills !!!

[Mister Defense]

Just now, ganesh said:

I think there was an article that showed the INT split between when he was coached by Ken and when Brady was calling the plays.  The numbers were much lesser in the 2nd half.  Go Bills !!!

 

there you go, even more proof than has already been layed out in this thread, that Dorey was not the problem at all.

 

A huuge mistake by Sean--will likely cost him his own job after the Bills complete this championship run.

 

Thank you for adding that sharp take, info.

 

[Mikie2times]

5 hours ago, MJS said:

I think Ken Dorsey deserves another shot at OC. He wasn't as terrible as some fans here make him out to be. It just didn't work out.

If you look at the collective body of work, Dorsey is ahead of Brady and take that back to Carolina and of course balance for Josh. Which means you do have to look at work prior to this year. We have won on close game variance post Dorsey. I believe at least some of that is based on Brady's influence, but the degree in which people feel Brady is outperforming Dorsey right now just isn't accurate.
 

Dorsey won on every stat that exists outside of maybe winning %...  I think we made the right decision for what we needed in that moment, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Dorsey performing really well with another team. He's very competitive and if learned and grew in just a few ways he would be elite. 

Edited January 21 by Mikie2times

[TheyCallMeAndy]

He’s a great QB coach

[Nuncha]

5 hours ago, MJS said:

I think Ken Dorsey deserves another shot at OC. He wasn't as terrible as some fans here make him out to be. It just didn't work out.

Ken is that you?

[Mister Defense]

1 minute ago, Mikie2times said:

If you look at the collective body of work, Dorsey is ahead of Brady and take that back to Carolina and of course balanced for Josh. Which means you do have to look at work prior to this year. We have won on close game variance post Dorsey. I believe at least some of that is based on Brady's influence, but the degree in which people feel Brady is outperforming Brady right now just isn't accurate. Dorsey won on every stat that exists outside of maybe winning %...  I think we made the right decision for what we needed in that moment, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Dorsey performing really well with another team. He's very competitive and if learned and grew in just a few ways he would be elite. 

 

That is so well said, and that is true from beginning to end. 

 

Who could not agree with sharp, clear analysis such as "and take that back to Carolina and of course balanced for Josh" and "if leaned and grew in just a few ways would be elite".

 

Dorsey is clearly "ahead of Brady" as you so clearly state.

 

 

[Augie]

44 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Agree, I believe KD, like others have pointed out, had a overly complicated scheme, with not much feel for play call sequencing / feel for game flow, maybe he will find a better fit with some other team, 

 

It seemed like a random selection of plays, like they were pulled out of a bag willynilly. It never felt like anything was being emphasized or set up.  It was just….random to me. 

[finn]

6 hours ago, MJS said:

I think Ken Dorsey deserves another shot at OC. He wasn't as terrible as some fans here make him out to be. It just didn't work out.

Actually, the offense under Dorsey did better than under Brady in pretty much every category, except, you know, wins. 

[Utah John]

Dorsey did a good job last year. Over the offseason the Bills decided to keep Josh in the pocket to avoid injury (although almost all his injuries happened in the pocket).  He turned into a zombie QB, drifting onto the field and drifting back off three plays later.  Brady gets credit, justifiably, for turning Josh loose, but I think the Bills made a collective decision to say the heck with that pocket business, and we'll let Josh Josh.  Dorsey couldn't seem to be the guy to let that happen, either that or McDermott just wanted a head to roll to get everyone's attention.  Whatever.  If the offense Dorsey built for this year had the capability to turn Josh loose, maybe he'd still be here.  

 

At the end of the year, now we see what an effective Bills offense looks like, and we can adjust the schemes and perhaps the personnel to make it work even better.

 

As for Dorsey in Cleveland, sure, why not, he's a better OC than a lot of the guys out there.  

[BarleyNY]

12 hours ago, Mango said:

Dorsey was part of building this thing. By all counts he’s a good X’s and O’s coach and a smart guy. But he seems to lack in his feel for play calling. If he can get better at that then he’s a good get for somebody. 
 

I have no ill will for the guy. Good luck out there Ken.

 

 

Stefanski likely will continue to call the offensive plays so it might not be a bad fit for Dorsey in that regard. AVP’s offense was predictable in the same way as Dorsey’s was though. Defenses seemed to know what was coming too often.