whorlnut Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 4 minutes ago, DapperCam said: There is no way we trade up with all the holes we need to fill on the roster and our limited cap space. It’s actually a lot more likely we trade down and grab more picks. Based off of what? We are talking about a GM that has only NOT traded up once since he’s been here. Bottom line is if Beane sees a guy he wants he will go get him. 8 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said: Harrison, Nabers, Odunze are the 3 that most mock drafts indicate will be the first 3 off the board, and are the consensus best prospects. Obviously that doesn't mean that they'll be the best players, but they are the Chase/Waddle/Smith group at the top of the class. Agree, but if you told me we could have guys like Brian Thomas, Ja’Lynn Polk, Troy Franklin, or Emeka Egbuka when we draft, then I’ll be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 minutes ago, DapperCam said: There is no way we trade up with all the holes we need to fill on the roster and our limited cap space. It’s actually a lot more likely we trade down and grab more picks. Free agency will fill out some holes. I think with limited budget and our losing so many veteran contributors - i expect them to add 2 safeties in free agency. I'd also think DQ comes back. It's probably the time to stop putting the same band back together though - so i don't expect lawson, phillips, hyde, poyer, and probably tre to return. Douglas makes it a lot easier to lose tre. Defensive line is expensive, even 1T guys are getting paid lately. But after the initial blitz there you can find some value (thats how we ended up with Floyd). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I’m down with Jeremy and taking two WR’s along with a safety or two. Extend the contracts that are needed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 16 hours ago, whorlnut said: I’m really hoping Beane takes a WR in the first round this year and would then like to see another taken in round 2 if they are rated high on our board. We did this with Rousseau and Basham when we needed someone to get after Mahomes. Why can’t we do it again for our franchise qb? Go hard at the position and give yourself the best shot possible at finding another top receiver. These guys could end up being WR1 and WR2 after Diggs leaves. I love the idea of rookie contracts, with one having the fifth year option. This is a passing league and if we hit on one, that gives Allen Kincaid and the new guy for at least 4 years on rookie deals. If we hit on both, then all the better. I’m good with this… the Bills have never spent a premium asset to draft a wide receiver and I’m pretty sure that changes this season - especially given Diggs’ age and contract. In fact, I’m pretty sure they restructured Diggs’ deal with this move in mind. They are confident he’ll perform at a high level for at least 1 season - maybe longer. With Diggs (and Shakir to a lesser extent), it allows the new WR to contribute as a rookie without being “the guy” Some have theorized that in a year or two a lot of the passing game will be run through Kincaid - the way it has in Kansas CIty with Kelce. But the more good receivers the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 minutes ago, whorlnut said: Based off of what? We are talking about a GM that has only NOT traded up once since he’s been here. Bottom line is if Beane sees a guy he wants he will go get him. Agree, but if you told me we could have guys like Brian Thomas, Ja’Lynn Polk, Troy Franklin, or Emeka Egbuka when we draft, then I’ll be happy. I'm usually a BPA type - stick to your board. There are obviously limits - I don't think RBs, TEs, OG's, Safeties, and LBs are usually worth 1st round picks unless they are players you project as all-pro's. Value you can get on QB/WR/DE/DT/CB/OT 5yr rookie deals is too good to pass up since those are the most expensive positions to fill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said: I’m down with Jeremy and taking two WR’s along with a safety or two. Extend the contracts that are needed. The move I like is signing Kyle Duggar or Jeremy Chinn in FA. They might be able to get by with Cam Lewis as the other safety 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, JohnNord said: I’m good with this… the Bills have never spent a premium asset to draft a wide receiver and I’m pretty sure that changes this season - especially given Diggs’ age and contract. In fact, I’m pretty sure they restructured Diggs’ deal with this move in mind. They are confident he’ll perform at a high level for at least 1 season - maybe longer. With Diggs (and Shakir to a lesser extent), it allows the new WR to contribute as a rookie without being “the guy” Some have theorized that in a year or two a lot of the passing game will be run through Kincaid - the way it has in Kansas CIty with Kelce. But the more good receivers the better. I think Diggs can and will move into a primarily slot WR role and do quite well into his 30s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Just now, Bleeding Bills Blue said: I'm usually a BPA type - stick to your board. There are obviously limits - I don't think RBs, TEs, OG's, Safeties, and LBs are usually worth 1st round picks unless they are players you project as all-pro's. Value you can get on QB/WR/DE/DT/CB/OT 5yr rookie deals is too good to pass up since those are the most expensive positions to fill. It’s never BPA…it’s always “BPA determined by need.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 minutes ago, JohnNord said: It’s never BPA…it’s always “BPA determined by need.” It tends to fall that way - but if you have some guy that you had as a top 15 pick and its late in the first - i don't know that i care that much unless he's a QB. If we can get a valuable player at WR/DE/DT/CB/OT that you project as a pro-bowl caliber player and a star, you should get that player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GustheDog33 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 12 hours ago, The Jokeman said: And how many teams scored 35 PPG this season? Guess who has the best record in the league? Surprise the team with the best defense. The Ravens and the 49ers are in the top 7 for points scored in the First and Second Quarters. That, to me, means they are playing with the lead. Playing with lead puts pressure on opposing offenses to try for chunk plays, which means they are running plays with lower success rates and are more predictable. Those things allow defenses to feast and will allow average defenders to be "better" because they know they are playing the Pass. The best way to win in Football, regardless of the level, is to put as many points on the board as possible and force the other team to throw it on every down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) I wanna trade up into the top 12 for LSU’s Malik Nabers, similar to what Atlanta did for Julio Jones… I wouldn’t mind giving up our 3nd rounder and a mid round pick plus our 1st rounder… edit: I would give up our 2nd rounder instead of our 3rd Edited January 3 by JaCrispy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 49 minutes ago, whorlnut said: Definitely not, huh? Even though there is a precedent with Beane when he identifies a weakness? I'm not saying he definitely won't. I'm saying he definitely shouldn't. And given he went Elam in the 1st and Benford in the 5th in 2022, I'm hoping he has learned his lesson with the way Boogie busted. 24 minutes ago, JohnNord said: The move I like is signing Kyle Duggar or Jeremy Chinn in FA. They might be able to get by with Cam Lewis as the other safety Kyle Duggar was a Beane guy, and we know Beane loves locking on and chasing players, so I could see that. I'd be good with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapperCam Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: I wanna trade up into the top 12 for LSU’s Malik Nabers, similar to what Atlanta did for Julio Jones… I wouldn’t mind giving up our 3nd rounder and a mid round pick plus our 1st rounder… Trading up from a 1st round pick at the end of the draft to the top 10 (where Nabers is probably gonna go) is going to cost a lot more than a 1st, 3rd and 5th. Try our first this year and next year’s first. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 17 hours ago, whorlnut said: I’m really hoping Beane takes a WR in the first round this year and would then like to see another taken in round 2 if they are rated high on our board. We did this with Rousseau and Basham when we needed someone to get after Mahomes. Why can’t we do it again for our franchise qb? Go hard at the position and give yourself the best shot possible at finding another top receiver. These guys could end up being WR1 and WR2 after Diggs leaves. I love the idea of rookie contracts, with one having the fifth year option. This is a passing league and if we hit on one, that gives Allen Kincaid and the new guy for at least 4 years on rookie deals. If we hit on both, then all the better. Didn't the Bills do something similar in 2021 when they drafted Rousseau in Round 1 and Basham in Round 2? They decided after the season that their #1 priority was to "affect the opposing QB" so they went with a high ceiling/low floor guy Round 1 and doubled down with a guy regarded as more of a solid prospect (higher floor/lower ceiling) in Round 2. Later that decision was highly criticized (by me among others) as neglecting other positions such as OL. The bandwagon on that POV filled up suddenly when Beane raised the white flag and traded Basham to the Giants for along with the swap of a bag of used footballs for a bag of sweaty gym socks. The fact is, top contributors can be found in all rounds - look at Elam (round 1) vs Benford (round 6) so while I agree on investing a high pick and doubling down, I don't think a 1-2 punch is necessarily the best strategy Edited January 3 by Beck Water 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 9 minutes ago, DapperCam said: Trading up from a 1st round pick at the end of the draft to the top 10 (where Nabers is probably gonna go) is going to cost a lot more than a 1st, 3rd and 5th. Try our first this year and next year’s first. For a WR in a WR-rich draft... Doug Whaley called, he said to think twice! Stay where we are. Grab someone like Egbuka or Legette in the 1st, and then dip back in for a Jermaine Burton in the 4th/5th. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 30 minutes ago, GustheDog33 said: The Ravens and the 49ers are in the top 7 for points scored in the First and Second Quarters. That, to me, means they are playing with the lead. Playing with lead puts pressure on opposing offenses to try for chunk plays, which means they are running plays with lower success rates and are more predictable. Those things allow defenses to feast and will allow average defenders to be "better" because they know they are playing the Pass. The best way to win in Football, regardless of the level, is to put as many points on the board as possible and force the other team to throw it on every down. 100% but on a tangent, this is why I think you need to be careful to just assume that Baltimore and San Francisco are going to have an easy path into the Super Bowl. They aren’t always going to get out to big lead. San Francisco and Dallas are great examples of this. Both teams looked unstoppable… and they then they fell behind to BUF and BAL and struggled mightily. 21 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: I'm not saying he definitely won't. I'm saying he definitely shouldn't. And given he went Elam in the 1st and Benford in the 5th in 2022, I'm hoping he has learned his lesson with the way Boogie busted. Kyle Duggar was a Beane guy, and we know Beane loves locking on and chasing players, so I could see that. I'd be good with that. I think they really liked Jeremy Chinn as well. I think either of those two would do in awesome in Buffalo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GustheDog33 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Just now, JohnNord said: 100% but on a tangent, this is why I think you need to be careful to just assume that Baltimore and San Francisco are going to have an easy path into the Super Bowl. They aren’t always going to get out to big lead. San Francisco and Dallas are great examples of this. Both teams looked unstoppable… and they then they fell behind to BUF and BAL and struggled mightily. For sure, and solidifies the point. The best way to win is to get the lead and grow it. Even great teams with tons of weapons have to be predictable and struggle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: For a WR in a WR-rich draft... Doug Whaley called, he said to think twice! Stay where we are. Grab someone like Egbuka or Legette in the 1st, and then dip back in for a Jermaine Burton in the 4th/5th. This is a real good point. How about Polk from Washington? He seems to be trending upward. Might even be able to get him at the top of R2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 24 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: I wanna trade up into the top 12 for LSU’s Malik Nabers, similar to what Atlanta did for Julio Jones… I wouldn’t mind giving up our 3nd rounder and a mid round pick plus our 1st rounder… We already gave up a 3rd rounder for Rasul Douglas. I'm not clear on which that was, but if you're talking comp pick for Edmunds, I don't think a comp pick (>96 in the 3rd round) plus a "mid rounder" gets you from wherever we finish (mid-20's?) to top 12. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 minutes ago, JohnNord said: This is a real good point. How about Polk from Washington? He seems to be trending upward. Might even be able to get him at the top of R2 I'm not against Polk, there are a lot of guys I could like as our 2nd WR drafted. But I'd rather not go WR in the 1st and 2nd. It isnt even a top need compared to DT, DE, and Safety. I could even see them taking a Safety in the 1st (Cooper Dejean) then a WR in the 2nd and maybe another WR later. I'd rather walk away from this draft with only 1 WR taken (in the 1st) than draft another in the 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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