Dr.Sack Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 I’ve listened to this Solak guy on a few podcasts and then watched one of his videos. Solak is very young, which makes sense why he speaks the way he does. That aside, some good he makes some good points on the offense, but seems a bit too analytical with all his advance metrics jargon. The bottomline is the Bills need to find an identity on offense and not be afraid to be great at what they do. Simplifying the offense, playing with tempo, not requiring the receivers to read and react to coverages, and executing the called route is the key. There have been too many instances of players tripping over each other and not maintaining spacing. Dorsey needs to simplify the offense and get on the attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 Whether Josh likes it or not, this is going to come home to Dorsey and his ability to get production out of Allen and this offense. At the end of the day, it is nice that Allen has a great rapport with Ken Dorsey, but if that is not translating into offensive production on game days then the team is going to have to think about changes at OC. Where I see the most difference with this offense compared to when Daboll was OC is execution and how many ways this offense seems less disciplined with execution. Sloppy mistakes that kill drives and uninspired efforts that land them short of the sticks. Even with Daboll, I thought defenses were homing in more on our tendencies, but Daboll was able to get more out of that slot position and jet motion with zone beaters and seemed to have Allen more dialed in particularly when we had a reliable veteran slot receiver in Beasley who knew how to read zones and find the soft spots in zones and at the sticks to keep the chains moving. This offense has been struggling since late last year and it has carried over for much of this year. Hard to defend whatever they are putting on display most games this season as being an example of the needle moving in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 17 hours ago, reddogblitz said: Maybe maybe not. Everybody is different. Just because the guys you mentioned have been able to handle it doesn't mean everyone can. I do remember when Ryan Fitzpatrick got a big contract upgrade/extension his played suffered for example. Josh's whole thing Has been the kid everyone said couldn't make it. The kid from the small school. Troy Aikmen said on draft night he would never be accurate. Now he's made it and proved them all wrong. He got the fat contract. Maybe he got a case of the big head. I don't know. Its a theory. The shoulder is also a good theory. One thing s for certain. He can't throw the bomb this year while he was good at it the last few years. What do you think has changed? The coaches. They determined he shouldn't run and it's taken his mind out of the game. They must have drilled this mantra into him hard. I want the Josh back that wouldn't hesitate to take off with the ball. And maybe even leap a guy if he has to. I believe that gets his juices going and plugs him into the game and they've coached it out of him and I think that sucks. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90sBills Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said: To be clear I'm saying that the Bills organization is not doing enough to FULLY EXPLOIT Allen's unique skill set and elite QB play. Allen has already been wildly successful. Agreed on both these points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, beerme1 said: The coaches. They determined he shouldn't run and it's taken his mind out of the game. They must have drilled this mantra into him hard. I want the Josh back that wouldn't hesitate to take off with the ball. And maybe even leap a guy if he has to. I believe that gets his juices going and plugs him into the game and they've coached it out of him and I think that sucks. Folks are still playing that tired mantra of coaches not "letting Allen run" or "coaching it out of him" and not really thinking about the injuries to Allen's throwing shoulder and how that may be changing how Allen is trying to approach games as a QB. The way Allen plays he is getting hurt. Whether he is in the pocket either failing to read the defense, or turning down quick throws on schedule that are open underneath looking for deeper shots, or just making up his mind where he is going to force the ball. That behavior leads to him holding the ball long enough for opposing rushers to get home and lay hits on him. If he takes off and tries to bowl over defenders, or when he scrambles extending plays outside of structure he can and does gets leveled and has injured his shoulder. Allen's throws, accuracy, and ability to practice with the offense has been hampered by injuries to his shoulder the past 2 years. Against the Giants he was scrambling, extending plays outside of structure (as he is very good at doing), but he got hit and landed on his shoulder reinjuring it. There is a brave recklessness to some of Allen's game that in some ways is admirable. When he got blasted last year and was mic'd up and told that guy that hit him, "I love that s**t". But this is the real world and the hits are starting to catch up to him. Allen injured his throwing shoulder and broke his collarbone in Wyoming too and he played much the same way he does now. You watch the clips below and you see the same kind of QB - Allen holding the ball, evading the rush, often rolling to his right, directing scramble drills and creating plays outside the structure of the play that is called - basically street ball. Successful QBs need to have that ability. Pure pocket throwing statues (unless they can dissect defenses and have one hell of a quick trigger with accuracy - Brady) do not last long, but Allen cannot live in that world of running around on every play the same way he did at Wyoming either. NFL defenses are too good, and they catch on, and now they make things harder with disguising deeper zone coverages, negating our scramble drills, and often spy him with speedy LBs and Strong Safeties that can close on him and get hits on him as soon as he bails on the pocket. Good QBs that can last in this league have to have both the ability to read defenses and get rid of the ball quickly (and accurately) to negate a good pass rush or blitz, and the ability to run and play outside of the structure when things break down or there is simply room to run. Allen does one of these things very well (playing outside the structure), but the other needs more work. He also needs to throw the ball away, slide, or run out of bounds if it means he avoids injury. The best ability is availability. There is a reason why veteran QBs and retired QBs are saying the same thing. They want to see a long career for Allen as we do, but I am not sure if that is going to happen if he keeps playing the same way and tearing up that shoulder. It is less about telling Allen not to run, and more telling Allen "if you ARE going to throw the ball, know where to go with it and get rid of it quickly so you are not getting slammed". There are other issues with the offensive game plans, preparation, and execution, but it is hard to put my finger on those things as coaches are either getting the most out of their players or they are not. Edited November 12, 2023 by WideNine 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 1 hour ago, WideNine said: Folks are still playing that tired mantra of coaches not "letting Allen run" or "coaching it out of him" and not really thinking about the injuries to Allen's throwing shoulder and how that may be changing how Allen is trying to approach games as a QB. The way Allen plays he is getting hurt. Whether he is in the pocket either failing to read the defense, or turning down quick throws on schedule that are open underneath looking for deeper shots, or just making up his mind where he is going to force the ball. That behavior leads to him holding the ball long enough for opposing rushers to get home and lay hits on him. If he takes off and tries to bowl over defenders, or when he scrambles extending plays outside of structure he can and does gets leveled and has injured his shoulder. Allen's throws, accuracy, and ability to practice with the offense has been hampered by injuries to his shoulder the past 2 years. Against the Giants he was scrambling, extending plays outside of structure (as he is very good at doing), but he got hit and landed on his shoulder reinjuring it. There is a brave recklessness to some of Allen's game that in some ways is admirable. When he got blasted last year and was mic'd up and told that guy that hit him, "I love that s**t". But this is the real world and the hits are starting to catch up to him. Allen injured his throwing shoulder and broke his collarbone in Wyoming too and he played much the same way he does now. You watch the clips below and you see the same kind of QB - Allen holding the ball, evading the rush, often rolling to his right, directing scramble drills and creating plays outside the structure of the play that is called - basically street ball. Successful QBs need to have that ability. Pure pocket throwing statues (unless they can dissect defenses and have one hell of a quick trigger with accuracy - Brady) do not last long, but Allen cannot live in that world of running around on every play the same way he did at Wyoming either. NFL defenses are too good, and they catch on, and now they make things harder with disguising deeper zone coverages, negating our scramble drills, and often spy him with speedy LBs and Strong Safeties that can close on him and get hits on him as soon as he bails on the pocket. Good QBs that can last in this league have to have both the ability to read defenses and get rid of the ball quickly (and accurately) to negate a good pass rush or blitz, and the ability to run and play outside of the structure when things break down or there is simply room to run. Allen does one of these things very well (playing outside the structure), but the other needs more work. He also needs to throw the ball away, slide, or run out of bounds if it means he avoids injury. The best ability is availability. There is a reason why veteran QBs and retired QBs are saying the same thing. They want to see a long career for Allen as we do, but I am not sure if that is going to happen if he keeps playing the same way and tearing up that shoulder. It is less about telling Allen not to run, and more telling Allen "if you ARE going to throw the ball, know where to go with it and get rid of it quickly so you are not getting slammed". There are other issues with the offensive game plans, preparation, and execution, but it is hard to put my finger on those things as coaches are either getting the most out of their players or they are not. Ok fine. Gunslingers don't care. I think Josh hurt his shoulder entering a melee and coming to the defense of a teammate. It's how he's wired. Let him be him. He is not a small man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Right on. There is a long history of QBs coming into the NFL that are good Passers but also full of youth and vinegar and are not going to play old fuddy duddy pocket passer football. They have early success but also get injured a few times and start to realize you're not gonna last long ing NFL doing that so start to become pocket passers and have long carreers. Guys I'm talking about: Roger Steinbach Donovan McNabb Ben Roethlisberger Randall Cunningham Steve Young John Elway Durante Culpeper Aaron Rodgers The only guy I remember not doing this was Michel Vick. I also heard Steve Tasker talking about this years ago about Tyrod. He said if you run like that you takes some hits you get nagging injuries like a jammed thumb or sprained ankle or a sore shoulder that pocket passers don't. This is Josh's 6th season. The running is fun and effective but he's gotta transition before too long or he's gonna have a shorter less productive carreer. He's already missed a half a season and had sore shoulders the last 2 Years hurting his play. That's why I think Coach McDermott and Coach Dorsey are trying to limit the runs. But then again, we need to win. So we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 12 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Right on. There is a long history of QBs coming into the NFL that are good Passers but also full of youth and vinegar and are not going to play old fuddy duddy pocket passer football. They have early success but also get injured a few times and start to realize you're not gonna last long ing NFL doing that so start to become pocket passers and have long carreers. Guys I'm talking about: Roger Steinbach Donovan McNabb Ben Roethlisberger Randall Cunningham Steve Young John Elway Durante Culpeper Aaron Rodgers The only guy I remember not doing this was Michel Vick. I also heard Steve Tasker talking about this years ago about Tyrod. He said if you run like that you takes some hits you get nagging injuries like a jammed thumb or sprained ankle or a sore shoulder that pocket passers don't. This is Josh's 6th season. The running is fun and effective but he's gotta transition before too long or he's gonna have a shorter less productive carreer. He's already missed a half a season and had sore shoulders the last 2 Years hurting his play. That's why I think Coach McDermott and Coach Dorsey are trying to limit the runs. But then again, we need to win. So we'll see. And as result of the coaches conservative mindset, we will miss the playoffs while we are in a Super Bowl window. Absolutely unacceptable. We have a willing guy. Let him be him. What is this *****? Like a husband and wife? I love you honey. Now change! F that. Ball out Josh. I never want to see you with the deer in the headlights confused look you've been showing on the sidelines. I want the mad dog alpha Josh that is screaming at and pumping up his team mates. That is who Josh Allen is. This version of Josh created by McD is like Josh on Ritalin. F that! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern_Bills Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 On 11/8/2023 at 8:55 PM, Success said: Paralysis by analysis. Everyone is overcomplicating things. This team has better talent than most teams in the league, and one of the best QB's. Know the secret? They need to have fun again. It's a game. Play it loose. Have fun. Precisely why I say fire the coach, only a coach can kill the fun with rules and regulations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 3 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said: I can’t stand how people over to overstate things to make a silly point. No one with a brain is saying Allen is broken. Mahomes is having the worst season of his career. Yet, he is coming off his second MVP and SB championship after trading Tyreek Hill and throwing to maybe the worst receivers in the nfl. Allen is playing good but we need him to be great. But let’s stop with the Mahimes comparisons because it’s silly at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 On 11/8/2023 at 8:51 PM, FrenchConnection said: I don't want to see Josh take check-downs or play "efficient." Unleash the beast! Enjoy 0 super bowls with that kind of play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 6 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I can’t stand how people over to overstate things to make a silly point. No one with a brain is saying Allen is broken. Mahomes is having the worst season of his career. Yet, he is coming off his second MVP and SB championship after trading Tyreek Hill and throwing to maybe the worst receivers in the nfl. Allen is playing good but we need him to be great. But let’s stop with the Mahimes comparisons because it’s silly at this point. As Greg Cosell reminds us: "if you need your QB to be great every game then you have a problem and it's not your QB." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDingus Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 On 11/10/2023 at 10:19 AM, GoBills808 said: No other QB has performed as well as Allen over the course of this season. It's not hero worshipping. It's just facts. Is 6 straight weeks of this nonsense enough for you yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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