Devils advocate...what is Josh is the problem?

[Joe Ferguson forever]

23 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Critique: I have been a fan for 30 years. Josh isn't playing well, we do need him, but we need him to play well. He is part of the problem right now. 

 

Board: You must be Joe Marino's little brother. Who do you suggest we trade Josh for? Go on. Who? Go on? Who? Go On GO ON CAP CAPS GOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

logic isn't a strong suit here.  If, then....If, then.  It's not either/or.  It's what's the fix?

Edited October 24, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, JayBaller10 said:

If you can find three games in a row where Allen had zero turnovers, going all the way back to his rookie season, send it in to the CBS team that called the game this past weekend, because they’re the ones who made the claim. 

Like I said

 

End of 2021 jets  pats chiefs

And that's just off the top of my head lol

 

Come on bills fans smdh

[Mikie2times]

Josh Allen protection team is out in full force this evening. 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Mikie2times

[Brand J]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Like I said

 

End of 2021 jets  pats chiefs

They definitely didn’t say “regular season” so yes, those playoff games prove them incorrect. 

[Mikie2times]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Like I said

 

End of 2021 jets  pats chiefs

And that's just off the top of my head lol

 

Come on bills fans smdh

This is correct CBS was wrong on that stat. I heard it as well. 

[Boatdrinks]

6 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

They definitely didn’t say “regular season” so yes, those playoff games prove them incorrect. 

They didn’t , but I’ve heard the stat before elsewhere and it was regular season. Besides,  I believe NFL postseason stats are a completely separate deal when stats are brought up. 

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Josh Allen protection team is out in full force this evening. 

 

 

I mean I don't know what to tell you. Diggs didn't have his best game against the Patriots either. Could have caught this deep pass:

 

Could have caught the throw at the front corner of the endzone. Could have caught the final throw of the game to give us a shot.

 

But when I evaluate reasons for this loss, Diggs doesn't even come to mind. He is an elite player that missed a few plays he sometimes makes. That's exactly how I feel about Allen's game. A lot of this discussion is just displaced blame from people that think QB is worth like 80% of the team's success, and that's never been true.

 

If the defense had merely stopped the worst offense in the league when it counted at the end we'd be having an entirely different conversation today. We'd be concerned about the slow start, but also ecstatic that Allen turned it on when it mattered. I've seen that exact script play out with Mahomes and the Chiefs a dozen times. But instead the Patriots easily sliced through our blitz happy defense so now people want to retroactively place blame somewhere else.

 

It's not that complicated. When the numbers show you a clear narrative, believe them:

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by HappyDays

[Brand J]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

They didn’t , but I’ve heard the stat before elsewhere and it was regular season. Besides,  I believe NFL postseason stats are a completely separate deal when stats are brought up. 

Well, I was surprised when I heard it and didn’t know how it could be true. Didn’t bother to research to prove them wrong though, just thought “wow.” The broadcast team probably heard the stat somewhere else and forgot to include “regular season.” 😂 

[BobbyC81]

9 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

 

When you look at all 22 he is missing open guys all over and seems to be keying in on one guy in the route the entire time.  

 

The turnovers at the end of last year amd jets game were bad.  Like he didn't see the defenders.  

 

What are chances he's locking in on one guy because he isn't trusting what he's seeing now.   

 

 

Josh needs to be like Kirk Cousins tonight, spreading it around the field, even though Addison had a bulk of the receptions.

 

We don’t know what Josh is seeing but I again noticed on some replays that there were one or two guys open short that he ignores.

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, JayBaller10 said:

Well, I was surprised when I heard it and didn’t know how it could be true. Didn’t bother to research to prove them wrong though, just thought “wow.” The broadcast team probably heard the stat somewhere else and forgot to include “regular season.” 😂 

Maybe they did. Anyway, it’s interesting but I just think you’ll always get a certain amount of turnovers with Josh- it’s just the way he plays. Of course, you’re okay with them when he’s blowing teams out with crazy plays due to freakish athletic ability. When you take a lot of his unique skills out of his game they become a bigger deal. He’s fumbled quite a bit as well , especially in past seasons when he ran a lot more. 

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, BobbyC81 said:

Josh needs to be like Kirk Cousins tonight, spreading it around the field, even though Addison had a bulk of the receptions.

 

We don’t know what Josh is seeing but I again noticed on some replays that there were one or two guys open short that he ignores.

I think Cousins sees the field better than Josh. I mean, he has to, he’s much more limited physically. He also has a knack for completing passes under heavy pressure. That game against him last year was frustrating, seemed like he was just throwing the ball to no one in particular to avoid sacks but it kept finding a purple jersey. Throw and duck, he did the same tonight against the 9ers. 

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

Maybe they did. Anyway, it’s interesting but I just think you’ll always get a certain amount of turnovers with Josh- it’s just the way he plays. Of course, you’re okay with them when he’s blowing teams out with crazy plays due to freakish athletic ability. When you take a lot of his unique skills out of his game they become a bigger deal. He’s fumbled quite a bit as well , especially in past seasons when he ran a lot more. 

Yeah I can live with turnovers if they’re being offset by TDs on other drives. But when the offense is struggling to put points on the board for most of the game? Those turnovers are magnified. Hopefully for all of our sake Josh and co figure it out.

[Mikie2times]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I mean I don't know what to tell you. Diggs didn't have his best game against the Patriots either. Could have caught this deep pass:

 

Could have caught the throw at the front corner of the endzone. Could have caught the final throw of the game to give us a shot.

 

But when I evaluate reasons for this loss, Diggs doesn't even come to mind. He is an elite player that missed a few plays he sometimes makes. That's exactly how I feel about Allen's game. A lot of this discussion is just displaced blame from people that think QB is worth like 80% of the team's success, and that's never been true.

 

If the defense had merely stopped the worst offense in the league when it counted at the end we'd be having an entirely different conversation today. We'd be concerned about the slow start, but also ecstatic that Allen turned it on when it mattered. I've seen that exact script play out with Mahomes and the Chiefs a dozen times. But instead the Patriots easily sliced through our blitz happy defense so now people want to retroactively place blame somewhere else. It's not that complicated. When the numbers show you a clear narrative, believe them:

 

 

I don't think Josh is the only reason we lost. I don't even think he is the primary reason we lost. We have had a DVOA on defense in the top 10 for years. EPA ranges in the bottom 20 on defense are not going to age well. Josh keeps missing the smack you in the face underneath reads. It doesn't help. Like Marino said (I actually listened to him for the first time today) he says I have to be honest, then he warns people like 7 times to not spew hate at him, "Josh is not playing well right now". Well sure he's not. Why is this so sensitive around here? The defense is playing worse. I don't know how anybody could give positive grades to our WR's or our scheme. None of it is particularly good.

 

The offensive stats are positive as far as EPA. Stunning actually. I think the lack of sustained drives just makes it look even worse.  Clearly, we are actually much closer to our usual performance than one would think. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Mikie2times

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

 

When you look at all 22 he is missing open guys all over and seems to be keying in on one guy in the route the entire time.  

 

The turnovers at the end of last year amd jets game were bad.  Like he didn't see the defenders.  

 

What are chances he's locking in on one guy because he isn't trusting what he's seeing now.   

 

 

 

He is not THE problem. But I still don't think his decision making is where it needs to be and where it was a couple of years ago. It is one of the issues with the team right now. It just isn't among the top couple of things on the list. 

[GoBills808]

37 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

They definitely didn’t say “regular season” so yes, those playoff games prove them incorrect. 

It's not even accurate for the regular season

28 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I mean I don't know what to tell you. Diggs didn't have his best game against the Patriots either. Could have caught this deep pass:

 

Could have caught the throw at the front corner of the endzone. Could have caught the final throw of the game to give us a shot.

 

But when I evaluate reasons for this loss, Diggs doesn't even come to mind. He is an elite player that missed a few plays he sometimes makes. That's exactly how I feel about Allen's game. A lot of this discussion is just displaced blame from people that think QB is worth like 80% of the team's success, and that's never been true.

 

If the defense had merely stopped the worst offense in the league when it counted at the end we'd be having an entirely different conversation today. We'd be concerned about the slow start, but also ecstatic that Allen turned it on when it mattered. I've seen that exact script play out with Mahomes and the Chiefs a dozen times. But instead the Patriots easily sliced through our blitz happy defense so now people want to retroactively place blame somewhere else.

 

It's not that complicated. When the numbers show you a clear narrative, believe them:

 

Passes the eye test

[Brand J]

49 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

It's not even accurate for the regular season

Which games disprove it? I’m not on Twitter, otherwise I’d try to tweet them out to the CBS broadcast team. Maybe someone else can…?

[Turk71]

The thread title reads like a Jeopardy question.

That's all I got, carry on.

[Mikie2times]

11 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Which games disprove it? I’m not on Twitter, otherwise I’d try to tweet them out to the CBS broadcast team. Maybe someone else can…?

2019, Wash, Cleveland, Miami 

2021 Jets, Patriots, KC (Playoffs)

 

Those are the two times Josh has went 3 straight games without a turnover

[Brand J]

18 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

2019, Wash, Cleveland, Miami 

2021 Jets, Patriots, KC (Playoffs)

 

Those are the two times Josh has went 3 straight games without a turnover

Ian Eagle and Charles Davis, can’t remember which one said it… maybe it was Davis, but who wants to tweet the games to them? Spreading false info to the masses is no bueno.

[DapperCam]

The Patriots actually have a good defense. These are the points they have given up to the other team’s offense:

Eagles - 19

Dolphins 24

Jets - 10

Cowboys - 23

Saints - 27

Raiders -19

Bills - 25

Josh Allen led offense scored more than the Eagles, Dolphins, and Cowboys. And it really should have been the most points because Bass messed up an easy FG.

 

You know what the Pats don’t have…a good offense. Yet the Bills defense gives up 2 scores more than their best performance. People are placing the blame in the wrong direction here.

[Wayne Cubed]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He is not THE problem. But I still don't think his decision making is where it needs to be and where it was a couple of years ago. It is one of the issues with the team right now. It just isn't among the top couple of things on the list. 

 

This.

 

People want there to be 1 problem going on, it's easier to fix 1 issue than it is multiple. The problems aren't so black/white. Is Josh having some bad plays? Course he is, just like any other player on the field. For me it's the equivilant of when fans are watching a 'shut down corner'. When they see that CB allow a completed pass or a couple, you get 'see he's not a shut down corner'. For some reason people/fans think elite = no mistakes ever.

 

So yes, Josh has some bad plays. He misses some reads. He is not THE reason the offense is not performing.

1 hour ago, DapperCam said:

The Patriots actually have a good defense. These are the points they have given up to the other team’s offense:

Eagles - 19

Dolphins 24

Jets - 10

Cowboys - 23

Saints - 27

Raiders -19

Bills - 25

Josh Allen led offense scored more than the Eagles, Dolphins, and Cowboys. And it really should have been the most points because Bass messed up an easy FG.

 

You know what the Pats don’t have…a good offense. Yet the Bills defense gives up 2 scores more than their best performance. People are placing the blame in the wrong direction here.

 

Also this,

 

And really Bass missed a FG and Murrays OPI, they would have had 10 more points. The defense absolutely crapped the bed. The offense was still slow to get going and when those are the scripted plays, I think that says a lot.