2023 MVP: Lamar will win it with 15 fewer TDs than Josh Allen (end of season talk pg 75+)

[Warcodered]

Honestly the narrative on Allen from the Eagles game is downright offensive, like WTF?

[Ray Stonada]

Generally teams with an MVP are 12-4 or better.

 

The worst record I can find is Adrian Peterson’s in 2012 when the Vikings finished 10-6.

 

He rushed for 2000 yards that season.

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Josh Allen with currently worse MVP odds than Trevor Lawrence, CMC, Brock Purdy and CJ Stroud.  Even worse odds than Tyreek at some books.  Alas.

 

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/mvp/

 

Yep. Wins and losses.

 

Keeping the thread alive simply because the Josh Allen of old has showed up the last few weeks and if that's the Josh Allen we see the rest of the year, he still has a shot at MVP if we keep winning.

[WNYFAN1]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Yep. Wins and losses.

 

Keeping the thread alive simply because the Josh Allen of old has showed up the last few weeks and if that's the Josh Allen we see the rest of the year, he still has a shot at MVP if we keep winning.

 

"if we keep winning". We've lost 3 of our last 4...

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Of the top guys listed here I think I'll sprinkle a little on Dak. He's playing well and has some big games coming up. If the Cowboys can finish the season strong and go 3-1 in during their four-game stretch of Eagle, Bills, Dolphins, and Lions I think he will have a great chance of being the odds on favorite. So I'll take him at +600 right now. 

 

In addition, I'll put a miniscule amount on Allen because +5000 would be a nice payout. And at this point, if the Bills just make the playoffs he will be in the conversation, it would require a 5-0 finish with Allen playing well and he's still likely to finish in the lead in total TD's. 

[CincyBillsFan]

10 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Honestly the narrative on Allen from the Eagles game is downright offensive, like WTF?

Chris Simms agrees:

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=840417591418891&set=a.518766386917348

 

I've listened to the comments from some of the NFL talking heads on Allen and the Eagles game and the venom directed at Allen is astonishing considering how he played.  It indicates something deeper, maybe even beyond football lurking here.  To ignore the stats and what any reasonable NFL fan saw in that game to go after Allen is bizarre.  It's clearly part of an agenda and since most of the craziest takes are from ESPN talking heads..........................

 

Consider the following scenarios:

 

*  How would we be talking about Hurts & Allen today if the Eagles missed that 59 yard FG in the rain?   Hurts had TWO TO's that led to Bills points and only 200 yards passing.  So all the talk about Hurts being "clutch" and Allen missing something is because the Eagles FG kicker nailed an incredible kick at the end of the game.  A great example of an Eagle player bailing Hurts out.  You know like T Bass failed to do.

 

*  How would we be talking about Hurts & Allen today if Allen had played as poorly as Hurts did through the first two and a half quarters?  Well for one the Bills would have been blown out as there is no way they would have kept the game close let alone took the Eagles to OT.  

 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, WNYFAN1 said:

 

"if we keep winning". We've lost 3 of our last 4...

 

Did our loss to Philly feel the same to you as our losses the rest of the season as far as our offense goes?

 

I'll put this another way... if Buffalo started the season with the win against the Jets and that loss against Philly--same results and exact same games--would you feel like the team couldn't string together a series of wins?

[C.Biscuit97]

On 11/28/2023 at 11:29 PM, Ray Stonada said:

Generally teams with an MVP are 12-4 or better.

 

The worst record I can find is Adrian Peterson’s in 2012 when the Vikings finished 10-6.

 

He rushed for 2000 yards that season.

I think he carried Tarvais Jackson to the playoffs. He was amazing. 
 

honestly, I’d love to see them give it to a non qb. The award is so boring when it’s just qbs. I’d argue TJ Watt is the main reason Pittsburgh is in the playoffs with the awful offense.

On 11/29/2023 at 10:17 AM, CincyBillsFan said:

Chris Simms agrees:

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=840417591418891&set=a.518766386917348

 

I've listened to the comments from some of the NFL talking heads on Allen and the Eagles game and the venom directed at Allen is astonishing considering how he played.  It indicates something deeper, maybe even beyond football lurking here.  To ignore the stats and what any reasonable NFL fan saw in that game to go after Allen is bizarre.  It's clearly part of an agenda and since most of the craziest takes are from ESPN talking heads..........................

 

Consider the following scenarios:

 

*  How would we be talking about Hurts & Allen today if the Eagles missed that 59 yard FG in the rain?   Hurts had TWO TO's that led to Bills points and only 200 yards passing.  So all the talk about Hurts being "clutch" and Allen missing something is because the Eagles FG kicker nailed an incredible kick at the end of the game.  A great example of an Eagle player bailing Hurts out.  You know like T Bass failed to do.

 

*  How would we be talking about Hurts & Allen today if Allen had played as poorly as Hurts did through the first two and a half quarters?  Well for one the Bills would have been blown out as there is no way they would have kept the game close let alone took the Eagles to OT.  

 

 

Do you still think the way that got away in 5th grade? Of course it’s about the end result. Is this a serious thing? 
 

for a while Peyton wiped Brady in stats but Brady was clutch and came up in the biggest moments. It’s why he’s the goat. And it’s why Mahomes is the current goat. To the victor go the spoils. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

for a while Peyton wiped Brady in stats but Brady was clutch and came up in the biggest moments. It’s why he’s the goat. And it’s why Mahomes is the current goat. To the victor go the spoils. 

 

But Mahomes has the stats advantage and the rings advantage over all his peers. So far through his career Mahomes is early 2000's Peyton AND Brady rolled into one. 

 

Still have some games to play out still but so far this is by far Mahomes worst year to date. Opening the door for some other QB's to try and narrow the gap on the stats advantage and maybe one will get a ring or maybe it will be Mahomes who still ends up winning in the end.

[HappyDays]

 

[transplantbillsfan]

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

Yet, it's all about his turnovers 

[finn]

On 11/28/2023 at 11:27 PM, Warcodered said:

Honestly the narrative on Allen from the Eagles game is downright offensive, like WTF?

It's like insult to injury. He plays the best football of any QB that week despite the refs doing all they could to stop him, and all you hear is that he's 0-6 in overtime and a turnover machine. 

 

The only answer is to blow out every remaining team so the refs (and McDermott) aren't a factor. It's doable if even a few more layers match Allen's excellence. 

[BullBuchanan]

Allen isn't even the best QB in his own division this year and we're still talking MVP? Only in Billsland.I don't have him in the top 5 QBs this year, and if we're talking MVP he's no higher than 10th. You have some non-QBs like Hill, McCaffery, who should be legitimate candidates, with Lamb being a possibility and if the Chargers weren't trash, Kennan Allen would definitely be int he conversation. If MVP voting were fair, DaRon Bland should definitely be in consideration as he's having one of the best seasons for a CB ever.

If he goes undefeated and posts 400 yards and 4 TDs a game against 0.25 INTs, no fumbles and a bunch of blowouts maybe we can have this discussion. I don't see any evidence of that being at all likely this year. More realistically we finish 8-10 or 9-8, Allen adds 13 more combined TDs and 8 more turnovers and we talk some more about how good the NFL is and how hard it is to win out there, mental exhaustion, and "accountability".

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

Allen isn't even the best QB in his own division this year and we're still talking MVP? Only in Billsland.I don't have him in the top 5 QBs this year, and if we're talking MVP he's no higher than 10th. You have some non-QBs like Hill, McCaffery, who should be legitimate candidates, with Lamb being a possibility and if the Chargers weren't trash, Kennan Allen would definitely be int he conversation. If MVP voting were fair, DaRon Bland should definitely be in consideration as he's having one of the best seasons for a CB ever.

If he goes undefeated and posts 400 yards and 4 TDs a game against 0.25 INTs, no fumbles and a bunch of blowouts maybe we can have this discussion. I don't see any evidence of that being at all likely this year. More realistically we finish 8-10 or 9-8, Allen adds 13 more combined TDs and 8 more turnovers and we talk some more about how good the NFL is and how hard it is to win out there, mental exhaustion, and "accountability".

Yeah that's not true at all, TDs per turnover rate for Allen this season is 2.06 for Tua it's 1.57.

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, Warcodered said:

Yeah that's not true at all, TDs per turnover rate for Allen this season is 2.06 for Tua it's 1.57.

And Tua Leads in just about everything else.

[Warcodered]

5 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

And Tua Leads in just about everything else.

Well not in passing yards, TDs, Rushing TDs. But I guess he has had more sacks, fumbles and more fumbles lost so he's got that going for him.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Warcodered

[DrBob806]

On 11/26/2023 at 11:24 AM, BBFL said:

I don’t know how you can’t include Lamar in that case. Especially if Baltimore keep winning. 
 

People are still upset with Hurts not getting it last year but if you remove him and put say a Derek Carr, Russell Wilson or some other reasonable vet do Philadelphia lose that many more games? I like Hurts and think he’s talented but he has a pretty solid team from top to bottom. 
 

Conversation sure. But there’s more in the mix than just Mahomes and Hurts for Allen to compete with. 
 

Heck, you could even make a case for CMC in San Fran. 

...Garrett, TJ Watt, Parsons...

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, Warcodered said:

Well not in passing yards, TDs, Rushing TDs, TD/INT rate. But I guess he has had more fumbles and more fumbles lost so he's got that going for him.

What?

Tua has a higher YPG and his TD per game is equal. He has a 0.45 INT ratio compared to Allens 54% Int ratio. He also has a higher completion percentage, and blows him out of the water on Passer Rating. Most importantly, he's winning.

[Scott7975]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

What?

Tua has a higher YPG and his TD per game is equal. He has a 0.45 INT ratio compared to Allens 54% Int ratio. He also has a higher completion percentage, and blows him out of the water on Passer Rating. Most importantly, he's winning.

 

You're one of those morons that wants to trade Allen aren't ya.

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

You're one of those morons that wants to trade Allen aren't ya.

Nope, I'm just not one of those morons who thinks he's the bets player in the NFL.