PrimeTime101 Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 5 minutes ago, PBF81 said: Have you looked at Daboll's record as an OC prior to coming here, as well as in his first two seasons here? He was awful. His highest rank in those 6 seasons in either scoring or yardage offense was 20th. He ranked 32nd or DFL at least twice and most of the time he was in the bottom handful. That's not someone that even remotely threatens your job. Dorsey? Does anything need to be said. Frasier wasn't as bad but he was hardly good. The last DC gig he had prior to coming here his D ranked 17th in yardage and 25th in scoring. He chose 'em. Why can be debated, but what can't really be debated is that none of them when they were hired were on anyone's radar for head coach roles. When he chose Beane as his GM (has that ever happened before in the NFL?) Beane also wasn't on anyone's radar to be GM. He owes everything to McD. What were the odds that McD would have chosen someone with no loyalty or sense of commitment to him? I don't think good. As to coaches, IMO any OC with a positive track record wouldn't do worse with Allen here. The people claiming that it could be worse offensively, I'm not sure why they think that. Maybe we should ask them the next time it comes up. 2:57 NOPE! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 18 minutes ago, PBF81 said: The people claiming that it could be worse offensively, I'm not sure why they think that. Maybe we should ask them the next time it comes up. Am I misreading this or are you saying the Bills have the worst offense possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said: Am I misreading this or are you saying the Bills have the worst offense possible? Allow me to answer that with a question. Are you, or those referenced, saying that it's close to optimal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 1 hour ago, PBF81 said: Have you looked at Daboll's record as an OC prior to coming here, as well as in his first two seasons here? He was awful. His highest rank in those 6 seasons in either scoring or yardage offense was 20th. He ranked 32nd or DFL at least twice and most of the time he was in the bottom handful. That's not someone that even remotely threatens your job. Dorsey? Does anything need to be said. Frasier wasn't as bad but he was hardly good. The last DC gig he had prior to coming here his D ranked 17th in yardage and 25th in scoring. He chose 'em. Why can be debated, but what can't really be debated is that none of them when they were hired were on anyone's radar for head coach roles. When he chose Beane as his GM (has that ever happened before in the NFL?) Beane also wasn't on anyone's radar to be GM. He owes everything to McD. What were the odds that McD would have chosen someone with no loyalty or sense of commitment to him? I don't think good. As to coaches, IMO any OC with a positive track record wouldn't do worse with Allen here. The people claiming that it could be worse offensively, I'm not sure why they think that. Maybe we should ask them the next time it comes up. A head coach is going to hire the best assistants possible because it gives them the best chance to win and keep their job. Thinking they're afraid that hiring too good of a coordinator that they might threaten their job is tin foil hat stuff man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Doc Brown said: A head coach is going to hire the best assistants possible because it gives them the best chance to win and keep their job. Thinking they're afraid that hiring too good of a coordinator that they might threaten their job is tin foil hat stuff man. Come on, McD has hired people he has connections with over the best more than once. Daboll's offenses before here in 6 seasons averaged in the high 20s, I'd guess 28th or so. Best? Please. Dorsey was the best? Talk about tim foil hat stuff. I'd also seriously question his judgement there as well. Edited June 12, 2023 by PBF81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 7 hours ago, PBF81 said: Allow me to answer that with a question. Are you, or those referenced, saying that it's close to optimal? You replied to my post but did not answer my question. Am I misreading what you typed or are you saying the Bills have the worst offense possible? Despite your rudeness I’ll answer your question. Twice! For clarity I’ll speak only for myself, not for others as you condescendingly requested. 1. If by “it”you mean any unit or position room in the NFL, MLB, NHL, or NBA and by optimal you mean maximized, then no. 2. if by “it” you mean your level of ridiculous hyperbole and by optimal you mean maximized then yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 On 6/10/2023 at 8:10 AM, BuffaloBillyG said: I don't need to make a whole video. Below is the 2023 New England Patriots From a Bills fan perspective: Could you be a little more succinct, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: You replied to my post but did not answer my question. Am I misreading what you typed or are you saying the Bills have the worst offense possible? Despite your rudeness I’ll answer your question. Twice! For clarity I’ll speak only for myself, not for others as you condescendingly requested. 1. If by “it”you mean any unit or position room in the NFL, MLB, NHL, or NBA and by optimal you mean maximized, then no. 2. if by “it” you mean your level of ridiculous hyperbole and by optimal you mean maximized then yes. First of all I'm not sure where you come up with rudeness. Never was I intent on being rude, I always strive not to be. We have Allen who does everything, at times out of necessity as if he's playing sandlot ball. ... which is a reflection of a lack of guidance. (AKA coaching) We make the least use of our RBs in the entire league by a country mile. Our play calling is questionable at best. We have a head coach that once legitimately thought that Peterman was or best chance to win. If Allen's gonna be Allen, no, I don't see how we could be much worse offensively. This is exactly why I've said that if Dorsey does a great job this fall, we have the ability to be the best Offense in team history. Under any circumstances, which also means under any coach, I can't imagine us finishing worse than 5th offensively this season. While on the sidelines two seasons ago, I also envision no other coach allowing "13 Seconds," not one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 On 6/10/2023 at 11:45 PM, newcam2012 said: Perhaps you are correct. We will really never know. Before that Monday Cinci game the Bills were on a big winning streak. If you closely look at those games you could reasonable conclude that the Bills weren't playing at their best. Several ugly wins for sure. That should be factored in as a piece to the puzzle. I'm already talking too. I get a lot of heat for it too. Just hard to watch McD, Fraizer, and Dorsey get outclassed come playoff time. At least Fraizer is gone. Its only my opinion, and can be discounted by whoever cares to do so. Our coaching staff has not introduced new wrinkles into the defense ever, (most notably in the post season) . The offense became predictable in its play design and calls, and it was evidenced by the success of our opponents defenses. IMO our post season opponents pretty much knew what the Bills game plan was going to consist off, and it showed. So, this upcoming season, it will be incumbent on the play design / play calling minds at OBD on both the O & D to shake up the status quo, and get creative when the demand to do so is present, should they succeed at doing this we can win it all, now I’m gonna go make coffee and read for a while, ☕️☕️☕️ (and yes injuries and a bad O line didn’t help) GO BILLS!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 28 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: Its only my opinion, and can be discounted by whoever cares to do so. Our coaching staff has not introduced new wrinkles into the defense ever, (most notably in the post season) . Incorrect. Bills designed the defense for the playoffs which neutralized Lemar Jackson, a defense never shown before, and this defense was then copied by other teams to help defend against him. They frustrated him with Trent Murphy keeping him in pocket and not allowing himself to get out of position which forced him to be a passer who was seeing ghosts resulting in endzone interception for TD. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/columnist/bell/2021/01/16/lamar-jackson-baltimore-ravens-knocked-flat-buffalo-bills-big-plays/4195244001/ Quote Jackson couldn’t lead the Ravens to as much as a touchdown against a much-maligned Bills defense that kept him bottled up in the pocket for much of the night. And when Jackson drove the Ravens to their best opportunity to score a touchdown in the third quarter that might have tied the game, the game changed just like that. Quote A few minutes later, the Ravens were really doomed. On the ensuing possession, Jackson picked up an errant shotgun snap and tried to salvage an incompletion in the face of a heavy rush. He retreated nearly to his goal line, as Tremaine Edmunds barreled in. As he threw the ball away in desperation, he was flagged for intentional grounding … and pounded by Trent Murphy. Disaster was compounded as Jackson’s head crashed to the turf. And he was finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Limeaid said: Incorrect. Bills designed the defense for the playoffs which neutralized Lemar Jackson, a defense never shown before, and this defense was then copied by other teams to help defend against him. They frustrated him with Trent Murphy keeping him in pocket and not allowing himself to get out of position which forced him to be a passer who was seeing ghosts resulting in endzone interception for TD. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/columnist/bell/2021/01/16/lamar-jackson-baltimore-ravens-knocked-flat-buffalo-bills-big-plays/4195244001/ Okay, once then, and Trent Murphy was a long time ago by NFL standards, how about since then…, especially when the defensive game plan isn’t working, playoffs, cough, cough, Imo there is an outstanding chance that a more aggressive defense with timely adjustments will happen more frequently with McDermott calling the shots, being that Leslie “ I’m not making adjustments “ Frazier is no longer here, I do believe KD will be a better overall OC this upcoming season, especially in the post season when putting your opponent on his back foot is so very important, gotta mix things up to allow that to happen. GO BILLS!!! Edited June 12, 2023 by Don Otreply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 Finally got around to watching the video. While I didn't learn anything new, I was impressed how knowledgeable the guy was and how professionally he presented his material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleezoid Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 32 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: Finally got around to watching the video. While I didn't learn anything new, I was impressed how knowledgeable the guy was and how professionally he presented his material. I quit at about the 10 min mark. Nothing new, just the same talking points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan692 Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 On 6/10/2023 at 5:06 PM, newcam2012 said: He has won 4 playoff games but he's lost 5. That's a 44% playoff win rate. Not good. You can blame Fraizer but McD must equally or even more so get the blame. He is the head coach who he trusted Fraizer after multiple defensive playoffs performances. He absolutely gave the KC game away in 13 seconds. Then they fired the special teams coach. The team was horrific on every level and facet of the game vs Cinci. What game plan? What adjustments? Etc.. The coach had to take blame for this! Let's not paint McD as this some sort of Godlike figure. Not saying You are but some here feel like he's untouchable or flawless. There is plenty to be critical about with regards to McD. I'm starting to believe he's a great team builder and regular season coach. Come playoff time it's a different story. The record backs this up. Dude has coached in 9 playoff games since he took over.. wow. https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=optimism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) On 6/10/2023 at 11:03 PM, Doc Brown said: It was just a joke. I know in terms of DVOA we lucked into the playoffs that year as our expected win total was between 6 and 7 depending on what metric you used. We also had a negative point differential if memory serves me correctly. Let me ask you this question because you seem to be rightfully more skeptical of McD than the average Bills fan. Would you have fired McDermott after last season if you could've replaced him with Sean Payton? yes a thousand times, yes. yes, please. and i dont mind McD so much. But i woulda fired mike Tomlin, or probably even 80 year old Belichick, to get Payton. The only coaches i would not have fired for Sean Payton are Andy Reid and Kyle Shanahan. And yes, Harbaugh would get fired too. Edited June 13, 2023 by maddenboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 32 minutes ago, maddenboy said: yes a thousand times, yes. yes, please. and i dont mind McD so much. But i woulda fired mike Tomlin, or probably even 80 year old Belichick, to get Payton. The only coaches i would not have fired for Sean Payton are Andy Reid and Kyle Shanahan. And yes, Harbaugh would get fired too. He's a great coach with a great offensive mind. However, to be fair he only won one Super Bowl in his 14 years with Drew Brees going 9-8 in the playoffs. Is he really that much of an upgrade over McDermott who has a similar playoff record percentage wise with Allen (3-4) but has yet to win a Super Bowl? I'm not so sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 its about the offensive mind. the offensive creativity. I am sold on the arguments that if you have a great qb, you throw everything into continuity and constant innovation on that side of the ball. That way, at least i would know i tried my very very best to maximize my great qb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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