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Siran Neal decision looming


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1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

What role did Kumerow play, then?  Thought he was one of the gunners as well.

 

Anyway, I think TBN is incorrect that the Bills are going around making decisions about each guy who is owed a (relatively small) roster bonus.  I think the decision on McKenzie was driven by feeling that Harty (and Shakir, and Hines) can fill every role they saw for McKenzie next season and do it better, so bye!

 

Unless they signed someone who they have on film as a top notch gunner AND a Dime back AND can play Nickel, I agree, Neal stays.

 

But then, I did think that $250k-$350k was too small an amount not to bring McKenzie into camp to compete and clearly the Bills valued his $2.2M now more than his camp competition, so you never know.

My problem with him: McD doesn’t trust him.  If he did, he would’ve played more than 6% of our defensive snaps last year.  Our secondary was hit by more injuries than it has since he’s been on the team….. and he played the lowest snap count since his rookie year.  How is that so?  How are guys getting pulled off the street playing over him?  
 

After watching how last year unfolded, he doesn’t have ANY role on this defense. He’s ST only…. Unless he’s the last healthy guy on the bench.  Similar to Mccaffery playing QB.

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3 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

That's a bit strong Gunner, wouldn't you say.  There are plenty of able bodied young guys floating around we can bring in to play gunner reasonably well I have to believe.  Neal can't play defense and is making too much money to just play Special teams.  We desperately need reinforcements on both lines, WR and LB.  And another solid TE would be nice.  (I would not mind drafting the kid Kincaid out of Utah if he is there at 27.  But I am not sure the Bills are that progressive thinking w their offense to make a two TE look, a mainstay in their scheme.)  So if we have to go bare bones on special teams for the sake of fortifying the lines especially, I am willing to make that trade off.  

 

The Bills management seems under the illusion that but for some tough circumstances last season, we were good enough to compete for the championship.  I just don't buy that.  And I hope I am wrong with my assumption.

 

They are not cutting an elite gunner for someone who is capable of playing it "reasonably well." 

 

You might not value special teams. The Bills do.

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

OK, different from 2021 then when Kumerow was one of the gunners?

 

He has always been their 3rd guy. He has had some snaps out there but their starters for 3 years have been Jones and Neal. 

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7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Zane Anderson and Siran Neal do not play the same position on special teams. 

 

So, no.

 

This confuses me because when the Bills signed him, I read this article about his proficient gunner qualities at BYU.

Do the Chiefs have 2 gunners established above him which kept him off the field?

 

Article excerpt:  

Showed very good speed and quickness at pro day.

Adequate athleticism for coverage in space and experienced in multiple coverage schemes.

His range, hustle and taking angles to the ball are good and he has the ability to support the run game from the single high safety role.

On Special teams he is a gunner and covers kickoffs with high proficiency, and has a knack for forcing turnovers.

 

https://arrowheadone.com/chiefs-udfa-focus-on-db-zayne-anderson/

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55 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

So Neal's calling card is that he was said (at least a year ago-ish) to be the fastest player on the team.   

 

He's a ST gunner (I think - where's @GunnerBill to set us straight on all the ST roles?) or at least filled in for Kumerow, he was taking 77% of the ST snaps.  He's our dime back, and Taron Johnson's backup at nickel.  So he's versatile.

 

Personally, I don't think the Bills see him as a looming decision.  $400 bonus really isn't much in the scheme of things.  Neal has 3 roles on the team, so why not bring him into camp and keep him until you have someone else you like better in at least 2 of 3?

 

I think the reason the Bills saved McKenzie's bonus is that they signed someone who can fill his role and they think will be better. 

 

I don't see that as having happened with Neal.

 

 

 

Only to people who don't value ST which (checks notes) would not include Beane or McDermott

Where did you see he was the fastest guy on the team? Not even close. Ran a 4.56 at the combine. I saw an article last year listing the top 5 and pretty sure he wasn't named.  Jones,McKenzie,Diggs, John Brown and I'm blanking on the other .

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2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

This confuses me because when the Bills signed him, I read this article about his proficient gunner qualities at BYU.

Do the Chiefs have 2 gunners established above him which kept him off the field?

 

Article excerpt:  

Showed very good speed and quickness at pro day.

Adequate athleticism for coverage in space and experienced in multiple coverage schemes.

His range, hustle and taking angles to the ball are good and he has the ability to support the run game from the single high safety role.

On Special teams he is a gunner and covers kickoffs with high proficiency, and has a knack for forcing turnovers.

 

https://arrowheadone.com/chiefs-udfa-focus-on-db-zayne-anderson/

 

He hasn't been a primary gunner at KC. But I did say above he did some at BYU. So that is a fair point, I was maybe too dismissive. He has done it in the past. 

 

Worth remembering that the Bills Gunner depth the last 3 seasons (during which period they are BY FAR the best kick off coverage team in the NFL btw) has been:

 

Starters - Siran Neal and Taiwan Jones

Primary backup - Jake Kumerow

2nd backup - Cam Lewis

 

So one of their starters and their primary backup are both presently free agents. They need some options there. So maybe the Bills do see him as a possible gunner. But even if they do I don't think that will be at the expense of Neal.

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1 hour ago, Brandon said:

Given that there doesn't seem to be any big rush to open up more cap space,  I think they'll likely keep him. 

they can release him, then resign him for less and he can fight in camp for a spot on 53 or PS.

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29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He is our starting gunner opposite Taiwan Jones. They have been the best gunner tandem in football the past 3 seasons. 

 

I would be stunned if they cut him.

Who cares.

 

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39 minutes ago, RussellDopeland said:

If this board had been up and running in the early 90s, members would have been calling for Tasker/Pike's releases continuously- "Well, they're overpaid!" "What does Pike do on defense?" "We can replace Tasker with a receiver that actually plays on offense!" "Polian and Levy worry too much about special teams!"

No. lol....Cap did not start until 1994 and only impediment to paying players' salaries was Detroit miser Ralph pinching pennies.

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16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They are not cutting an elite gunner for someone who is capable of playing it "reasonably well." 

 

You might not value special teams. The Bills do.

 

He has always been their 3rd guy. He has had some snaps out there but their starters for 3 years have been Jones and Neal. 

Maybe the difference between capable and elite isn’t as impactful as a gunner as it would be at say WR, OL or most other positions. 
 

 Just thinking out loud.

 

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Just now, julian said:

Maybe the difference between capable and elite isn’t as impactful as a gunner as it would be at say WR, OL or most other positions. 
 

 Just thinking out loud.

 

 

I think the difference is as big but yes, less impactful because STs play fewer snaps. But to go from the best pair in the league to having neither of them in 2023 feels like a huge downgrade that I can't see the Bills being willing to accept.

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5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He hasn't been a primary gunner at KC. But I did say above he did some at BYU. So that is a fair point, I was maybe too dismissive. He has done it in the past. 

 

Worth remembering that the Bills Gunner depth the last 3 seasons (during which period they are BY FAR the best kick off coverage team in the NFL btw) has been:

 

Starters - Siran Neal and Taiwan Jones

Primary backup - Jake Kumerow

2nd backup - Cam Lewis

 

So one of their starters and their primary backup are both presently free agents. They need some options there. So maybe the Bills do see him as a possible gunner. But even if they do I don't think that will be at the expense of Neal.

 

Thanks for the insight.  I have said (even in this thread) that IF Neal was let go it, would be after the camp battle that I assumed would

be between Neal and Anderson.  My thoughts were if Anderson won it, it would be about $4M in cap savings.

 

Maybe it's about Cam and Anderson?  It was interesting though, that Beane just said Cam's best worth was backup NC behind Taron. 

In that case Anderson might not have a shot at the 53 and was signed as a backstop.

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8 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Thanks for the insight.  I have said (even in this thread) that IF Neal was let go it, would be after the camp battle that I assumed would

be between Neal and Anderson.  My thoughts were if Anderson won it, it would be about $4M in cap savings.

 

Maybe it's about Cam and Anderson?  It was interesting though, that Beane just said Cam's best worth was backup NC behind Taron. 

In that case Anderson might not have a shot at the 53 and was signed as a backstop.

 

I think Anderson has a shot at the roster. To me behind Hyde and Poyer nobody is pencilled in at safety. If he is one of their best 4 safeties he will make it and they will find a way to get him on the field on teams.

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25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Bills. And most of the NFL.

 

At some point you gotta cut the fat on those ST contracts and find some guys that can contribute on cheaper deals… the Bills are at that point. That money can absolutely be better served elsewhere. 

34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He hasn't been a primary gunner at KC. But I did say above he did some at BYU. So that is a fair point, I was maybe too dismissive. He has done it in the past. 

 

Worth remembering that the Bills Gunner depth the last 3 seasons (during which period they are BY FAR the best kick off coverage team in the NFL btw) has been:

 

Starters - Siran Neal and Taiwan Jones

Primary backup - Jake Kumerow

2nd backup - Cam Lewis

 

So one of their starters and their primary backup are both presently free agents. They need some options there. So maybe the Bills do see him as a possible gunner. But even if they do I don't think that will be at the expense of Neal.

Come on… kick off coverage is so down the list of priority the way the league is today… and where has that terrific kick off coverage gotten them??

 

Just ***** kick it out of the end zone. 

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1 hour ago, RussellDopeland said:

If this board had been up and running in the early 90s, members would have been calling for Tasker/Pike's releases continuously- "Well, they're overpaid!" "What does Pike do on defense?" "We can replace Tasker with a receiver that actually plays on offense!" "Polian and Levy worry too much about special teams!"

False equivalency. 

Tasker made big plays all the time. He even contributed on offense.

Remind the last big play Siran Neal made? And he sucks on defense. 

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15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think Anderson has a shot at the roster. To me behind Hyde and Poyer nobody is pencilled in at safety. If he is one of their best 4 safeties he will make it and they will find a way to get him on the field on teams.

 

If Neal is a lock, the only way that pencil has any lead in it, is if they keep 5 Safeties or Neal ends up as prime backup.

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