newcam2012 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Billz4ever said: Chiefs are out of Mahomes rookie deal and they are sitting very good with the cap. Beane can restructure Josh's contract and save $21M against the cap this year, which takes them from almost $20M over to $1.5M under. If Beane restructures DIggs, Tre, Milano, and Dawkins they are $20M under the cap. The point is, Beane has options if he wants to exercise them and those guys are willing. They also have pending contracts to decide on with Edmunds and Poyer. The Von contract certainly doesn't help. Add on he's 34 and coming off a second knee injury. That's a whole nother discussion. Sure he can and will manipulate the numbers. Beane us fantastic at that. Point being he's still limited in his moves. Listen to his presser and what he said about Cinci. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, newcam2012 said: Come on now. You can't do comparasions like that. It's severely flawed. Barkley is a top ten back and a skilled offensive weapon. He played on a Giant offense that jasca limited passing QB and WRs and a suspect OL. Most teams knew the ball was going to Barkley and he still produced. I'd argue Daboll probably got the best out of him. He most likely wouldn't have been nearly effective in a Dorsey run offense. Coaching matters. I don't think having a top 10 back does anything to move the needle for me if over the course of a season you can't out-perform timeshare backs who make considerably less money, and cost considerably less draft capital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said: I think 13-3 says they got a lot right so far. Pretty shallow point of view here. What was the goal and expectation of the team? Sure you can point to the injuries and all the circumstances that occurred during the year. I think most Bills fans are pretty salty and disappointed in how the year ended. When you have a top 5 QB an organization shouldn't be satisfied with a great regular season record. It's more about playoffs and super bowls. That's where the Bills fall woefully short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billz4ever Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, newcam2012 said: They also have pending contracts to decide on with Edmunds and Poyer. The Von contract certainly doesn't help. Add on he's 34 and coming off a second knee injury. That's a whole nother discussion. Sure he can and will manipulate the numbers. Beane us fantastic at that. Point being he's still limited in his moves. Listen to his presser and what he said about Cinci. He also said there wouldn't be any big free agents signed last year and then signed Von. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said: I don't think having a top 10 back does anything to move the needle for me if over the course of a season you can't out-perform timeshare backs who make considerably less money, and cost considerably less draft capital. That's a fair statement. 4 minutes ago, Billz4ever said: He also said there wouldn't be any big free agents signed last year and then signed Von. How did that work out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billz4ever Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, newcam2012 said: That's a fair statement. How did that work out? Worked out great. If you're trying to claim our pass rush wasn't good when Von was in there, you would be mistaken. We lose the KC game without him. Edited February 17, 2023 by Billz4ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 10 minutes ago, Billz4ever said: Worked out great. If you're trying to claim our pass rush wasn't good when Von was in there, you would be mistaken. We lose the KC game without him. The Bills beat KC and still lost the number one seed to them. At some point you might want to examine what KC is doing right. At some point you might want to ask what is Cinci doing right? At some point you might want to ask why are the Bills falling short in the playoffs? Six years and counting with Allen and not nearly enough playoff success. Why???????? Or are you satisfied with nice regular season records and playoff births? Look at Diggs and Allen's reactions and post comments afterwards. Clearly, both are very disappointed. Some could say they are beginning to question the Bills organization and their decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 19 minutes ago, newcam2012 said: Pretty shallow point of view here. What was the goal and expectation of the team? Sure you can point to the injuries and all the circumstances that occurred during the year. I think most Bills fans are pretty salty and disappointed in how the year ended. When you have a top 5 QB an organization shouldn't be satisfied with a great regular season record. It's more about playoffs and super bowls. That's where the Bills fall woefully short. Top 5 QB - I’m just saying that means there are at least 4 other teams that are equally as good at the most important position. I would say that there are even more QBs in that range. All that I am saying is that this team is good enough to win it all with some breaks, but so are several other teams. Being outraged that they didn’t win it all ignores those other outstanding teams. Now, I am NOT saying that they shouldn’t try to improve - of course they should. I am also NOT saying that it is wrong to be disappointed. I am only saying that it never was the case that this team was clearly far superior to any other team, so it doesn’t make sense to me to be looking for scapegoats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 43 minutes ago, newcam2012 said: I'm not saying that. I guess I'm asking why would you have confidence in the organization to get it right now under much more stringent circumstances? It also appears the AFC east foes have clearly closed the gap. Teams like Cinci, KC, and the Jags appear to be going in a forward projection while the Bills are going... so another words that’s exactly what you’re saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billz4ever Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, newcam2012 said: The Bills beat KC and still lost the number one seed to them. At some point you might want to examine what KC is doing right. At some point you might want to ask what is Cinci doing right? At some point you might want to ask why are the Bills falling short in the playoffs? Six years and counting with Allen and not nearly enough playoff success. Why???????? Or are you satisfied with nice regular season records and playoff births? Look at Diggs and Allen's reactions and post comments afterwards. Clearly, both are very disappointed. Some could say they are beginning to question the Bills organization and their decisions. You were trying to make some kind of point about Von, who we didn't have at the end of the season, but go ahead and try convincing yourself that our pass rush wasn't dramatically better with Von on the field. Edited February 17, 2023 by Billz4ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said: He can definitely hit some home runs, has some wheels, and in a sort of "single game" mindset he is a definite impact player. However, if I side-by-side his numbers vs. singletary/cook - did he do anything better? Barkley: 295/1312, 10 TDs, 4.4 YPC, 76/57 for 338 and 0 TDs. Cook/Singletary: 266/1326, 7 TDs, 4.98 YPC, 84/59 for 460 and 2 TDs. And yet, I'd still rather have a healthy Barkley lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Billz4ever said: You were trying to make some kind of point about Von, who we didn't have at the end of the season, but go ahead and try convincing yourself that our pass rush wasn't dramatically better with Von on the field. I never disputed the pass rush wasn't better with Von. I'm not that foolish. The point is he wasn't on the field. The Bills invested all kinds of high draft picks on the pass rush. Where were they once Von went down? Have they produced? Von shouldn't even have been needed if Beane drafted the right guys or the organization developed players. Perhaps a different scheme. Whatever the reason it's clear the Bills have issues in the trenches. Hard to win that way vs quality teams. You saw Cinci with back ups throttle the Bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 22 hours ago, starrymessenger said: Maybe this raises a difficult question. It's definitely possible, though perhaps unlikely, that both Robinson and Jalin Hyatt, the premier deep threat in this year's draft, are both still on the board at 27. What do you do in a case like that? Hyatt looks to be very similar to J. Williams in last years draft. Robinson is arguably the best player per position in this years draft. I'd be fine adding a top flight WR.. if Robinson is available at our pick that would a tough one. It's a lock Bijan would go to Cincinnati at the next slot. They reportedly covet him and that would be a scary offense next season, if it isn't already. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 35 minutes ago, zow2 said: I'd be fine adding a top flight WR.. if Robinson is available at our pick that would a tough one. It's a lock Bijan would go to Cincinnati at the next slot. They reportedly covet him and that would be a scary offense next season, if it isn't already. I don’t know that Hyatt is seen as the same level prospect that Jameson Williams was. No doubt Hyatt is very fast and has pretty good hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 4 hours ago, newcam2012 said: Pretty shallow point of view here. What was the goal and expectation of the team? Sure you can point to the injuries and all the circumstances that occurred during the year. I think most Bills fans are pretty salty and disappointed in how the year ended. When you have a top 5 QB an organization shouldn't be satisfied with a great regular season record. It's more about playoffs and super bowls. That's where the Bills fall woefully short. As someone who agrees with you quite a bit at times and wants to take a blowtorch to the defense, I will say this… We got extremely unlucky that Von Miller tore his ACL. At the end of the day, the Chiefs won the Super Bowl. If I transpose what happened to us, onto the Chiefs, they do not…. Chiefs have to play Dolphins in the WC, Bengals in the Divisional and Bills in the Championship (without Chris Jones). They, 100%, are not the Super Bowl Champions. Maybe they don’t get clapped by the Bengals like we did, but their season also ends in the Divisional Round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billz4ever Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 hours ago, newcam2012 said: I never disputed the pass rush wasn't better with Von. I'm not that foolish. The point is he wasn't on the field. The Bills invested all kinds of high draft picks on the pass rush. Where were they once Von went down? Have they produced? Von shouldn't even have been needed if Beane drafted the right guys or the organization developed players. Perhaps a different scheme. Whatever the reason it's clear the Bills have issues in the trenches. Hard to win that way vs quality teams. You saw Cinci with back ups throttle the Bills. So how do you propose to improve the line? Against Cincy, we were without our best interior lineman and our best pass rusher. Anyone can get hurt and you have no way of knowing when or where it happens. Von made everyone else on that line better. Basically you're just using hindsight to say Beane screwed up the draft. That is neither helpful nor productive. All that can be done is sign some cheap FAs or draft D-Line later in the draft and even then, there's no guarantee that the D-Line is any better. The focus needs to be on the offense anyway. Mahomes was facing one of the best D-Lines in football in the SB and it made little difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, SCBills said: As someone who agrees with you quite a bit at times and wants to take a blowtorch to the defense, I will say this… We got extremely unlucky that Von Miller tore his ACL. At the end of the day, the Chiefs won the Super Bowl. If I transpose what happened to us, onto the Chiefs, they do not…. Chiefs have to play Dolphins in the WC, Bengals in the Divisional and Bills in the Championship (without Chris Jones). They, 100%, are not the Super Bowl Champions. Maybe they don’t get clapped by the Bengals like we did, but their season also ends in the Divisional Round. I don't disagree with that. It's really hard to know but your thinking is more than plausible. There is no doubt the Von injury really hurt the Bills chances to advance. I have more of an issue with the others who didn't step up. Many are high draft picks. I don't expect any team to hit home runs on all their draft picks. But Beane has really set back the team with so many high draft pick misses. However, the opposite can said with the Allen pick. A duel edge sword sort of speak. I'm not as enthusiastic and optimistic about this upcoming year. We will have to see what moves the Bills make to improve. Have to see how players develop. Just seems like the Bills are slipping back into the pack instead of distancing themselves amoung the elites. 2 minutes ago, Billz4ever said: So how do you propose to improve the line? Against Cincy, we were without our best interior lineman and our best pass rusher. Anyone can get hurt and you have no way of knowing when or where it happens. Von made everyone else on that line better. Basically you're just using hindsight to say Beane screwed up the draft. That is neither helpful nor productive. All that can be done is sign some cheap FAs or draft D-Line later in the draft and even then, there's no guarantee that the D-Line is any better. The focus needs to be on the offense anyway. Mahomes was facing one of the best D-Lines in football in the SB and it made little difference. Nice response. No arguments here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 minute ago, newcam2012 said: I don't disagree with that. It's really hard to know but your thinking is more than plausible. There is no doubt the Von injury really hurt the Bills chances to advance. I have more of an issue with the others who didn't step up. Many are high draft picks. I don't expect any team to hit home runs on all their draft picks. But Beane has really set back the team with so many high draft pick misses. However, the opposite can said with the Allen pick. A duel edge sword sort of speak. I'm not as enthusiastic and optimistic about this upcoming year. We will have to see what moves the Bills make to improve. Have to see how players develop. Just seems like the Bills are slipping back into the pack instead of distancing themselves amoung the elites. Beane has been a disaster in terms of drafting for the lines. That’s where teams are built. It’s extremely problematic that our best OL is Morse, a FA signing, best DE is Von, a FA signing and best DT is Jones, a FA signing. That’s not way to build a Super Bowl winning team. It needs to change this off-season. He needs to nail this draft and we need to to see a philosophical change in terms of dollar investment. The fact that it “sounds” like Poyer is gone and Edmunds is trending that way, leads me to believe they may be starting to get it. Im not there yet, and they could certainly turn around and infuriate me, but this Edmunds quote has me a tiny bit more energized. Now just give me a cryptic Oliver tweet and we’ll be cooking with gas. 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 23 minutes ago, SCBills said: Beane has been a disaster in terms of drafting for the lines. That’s where teams are built. It’s extremely problematic that our best OL is Morse, a FA signing, best DE is Von, a FA signing and best DT is Jones, a FA signing. That’s not way to build a Super Bowl winning team. It needs to change this off-season. He needs to nail this draft and we need to to see a philosophical change in terms of dollar investment. The fact that it “sounds” like Poyer is gone and Edmunds is trending that way, leads me to believe they may be starting to get it. Im not there yet, and they could certainly turn around and infuriate me, but this Edmunds quote has me a tiny bit more energized. Now just give me a cryptic Oliver tweet and we’ll be cooking with gas. What a home run post. No way could I say it any better than that. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 On 2/17/2023 at 4:04 PM, newcam2012 said: Beane has been a disaster in terms of drafting for the lines He's been kind of bad at shelling out the dollars too. IMO, there's NO WAY Dawson Knox should've been given that money. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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