More Pat Tillman News

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Its hard to imagine anything tougher than a parent having to bury their kid.

 

The parents do seem to be in a space where they feel honored by the choices of this former NFL player, but feel fairly used and abused by the choices of the military in how/when they told the truth to the family and public about his death.

 

This former NFL star paid the ultimate price for you and I. Its a shame that the actions of military brass seem to have extended the time and way his family continues to pay that price.

 

Tilllman's parents vent anger at Army

 

FAMILY RESOLVED TO BEING IN DARK OVER SON'S DEATH

 

By Josh White

 

Washington Post

 

 

Former NFL player Pat Tillman's San Jose family is lashing out against the Army, saying that the military's investigations into Tillman's friendly-fire death in Afghanistan last year were a sham and that Army efforts to cover up the truth have made it harder for them to deal with their loss.

 

More than a year after their son was shot several times by his fellow Army Rangers on a craggy hillside near the Pakistani border, Tillman's mother and father said in interviews that they believe the military and the government created a heroic tale about how their son died to foster a patriotic response across the country. They say the Army's ``lies'' about what happened have made them suspicious, and they are certain they will never get the full story.

 

``Pat had high ideals about the country; that's why he did what he did,'' Mary Tillman said in her first lengthy interview since her son's death. ``The military let him down. The administration let him down. It was a sign of disrespect. The fact that he was the ultimate team player and he watched his own men kill him is absolutely heartbreaking and tragic. The fact that they lied about it afterward is disgusting.''

 

Tillman, a Leland High School graduate and a popular player for the Arizona Cardinals, gave up stardom in the National Football League after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks to join the Army Rangers with his brother. After a tour in Iraq, their unit was sent to Afghanistan in spring 2004. Shortly after arriving in the mountains to fight, Tillman was killed in a barrage of gunfire from his own men, mistaken for the enemy.

 

In separate interviews in San Jose and by telephone, Tillman's parents, who are divorced, spoke about their ordeal with the Army with simmering frustration and anger. A series of military investigations have offered differing accounts of Tillman's death. The most recent report revealed more deeply the confusion and disarray surrounding the mission he was on, and more clearly showed that the family had been kept in the dark about details of his death.

 

The latest investigation, reported by the Washington Post earlier this month, showed that soldiers in Afghanistan knew almost immediately that they had killed Tillman by mistake in what they believed was a firefight with enemies on a tight canyon road.

 

That information was slow to make it back to the United States, the report said, and Army officials here were unaware that his death April 22, 2004, was fratricide when they notified the family that Tillman had been shot.

 

Over the next 10 days, however, top-ranking Army officials -- including the theater commander, Army Gen. John Abizaid -- were told of the reports that Tillman had been killed by his own men, the investigation said. The Army waited until a formal investigation was finished before telling the family -- which was weeks after the nationally televised memorial service in San Jose that honored Tillman on May 3, 2004.

 

Patrick Tillman Sr., a San Jose lawyer, said he is furious about what he found in the volumes of witness statements and investigative documents the Army has given the family. He decried what he calls a ``botched homicide investigation'' and accuses high-ranking Army officers of presenting ``outright lies'' to the family and to the public.

 

``After it happened, all the people in positions of authority went out of their way to script this,'' Patrick Tillman said. ``They purposely interfered with the investigation. They covered it up. I think they thought they could control it, and they realized that their recruiting efforts were going to go to hell in a handbasket if the truth about his death got out. They blew up their poster boy.''

 

Army representatives maintain the Army has done everything it can to keep the family informed about the investigation, offering to answer relatives' questions and going back to them as investigators gathered more information.

 

Army officials said Friday that the Army ``reaffirms its heartfelt sorrow to the Tillman family and all families who have lost loved ones during this war.'' Brig. Gen. Vincent K. Brooks, an Army spokesman, said the Army acts with compassion and heartfelt commitment when informing grieving families, often a painful duty.

 

``In the case of the death of Cpl. Patrick Tillman, the Army made mistakes in reporting the circumstances of his death to the family,'' Brooks said. ``For these, we apologize. We cannot undo those early mistakes.''

 

Brooks said the Army has ``actively and directly'' informed the Tillman family regarding investigations into his death and has dedicated a team of soldiers and civilians to answering the family's questions through phone calls and personal meetings while ensuring the family ``was as well informed as they could be.''

 

With each new version of events, Mary Tillman's mind swirls with new theories about what really happened and why. She questions how an elite Army unit could gun down its most recognizable member at such close range. She dwells on distances and boulders and piles of documents and the words of frenzied men.

 

``It makes you feel like you're losing your mind in a way,'' she said. ``You imagine things. When you don't know the truth, certain details can be blown out of proportion. The truth may be painful, but it's the truth. You start to contrive all these scenarios that could have taken place because they just kept lying. If you feel you're being lied to, you can never put it to rest.''

 

Patrick Tillman Sr. believes he will never get the truth, and he says he is resigned to that now. But he wants everyone in the chain of command to face discipline for ``dishonorable acts.''

 

``Maybe lying's not a big deal anymore,'' he said. ``Pat's dead, and this isn't going to bring him back. But these guys should have been held up to scrutiny, right up the chain of command, and no one has.''

[PromoTheRobot]

Its hard to imagine anything tougher than a parent having to bury their kid. 

 

The parents  do seem to be in a space where they feel honored by the choices of this former NFL player, but feel fairly used and abused by the choices of the military in how/when they told the truth to the family and public about his death.

 

This former NFL star paid the ultimate price for you and I. Its a shame that the actions of military brass seem to have extended the time and way his family continues to pay that price.

 

Tilllman's parents vent anger at Army

 

FAMILY RESOLVED TO BEING IN DARK OVER SON'S DEATH

 

By Josh White

 

Washington Post

Former NFL player Pat Tillman's San Jose family is lashing out against the Army, saying that the military's investigations into Tillman's friendly-fire death in Afghanistan last year were a sham and that Army efforts to cover up the truth have made it harder for them to deal with their loss.

 

More than a year after their son was shot several times by his fellow Army Rangers on a craggy hillside near the Pakistani border, Tillman's mother and father said in interviews that they believe the military and the government created a heroic tale about how their son died to foster a patriotic response across the country. They say the Army's ``lies'' about what happened have made them suspicious, and they are certain they will never get the full story.

 

``Pat had high ideals about the country; that's why he did what he did,'' Mary Tillman said in her first lengthy interview since her son's death. ``The military let him down. The administration let him down. It was a sign of disrespect. The fact that he was the ultimate team player and he watched his own men kill him is absolutely heartbreaking and tragic. The fact that they lied about it afterward is disgusting.''

 

Tillman, a Leland High School graduate and a popular player for the Arizona Cardinals, gave up stardom in the National Football League after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks to join the Army Rangers with his brother. After a tour in Iraq, their unit was sent to Afghanistan in spring 2004. Shortly after arriving in the mountains to fight, Tillman was killed in a barrage of gunfire from his own men, mistaken for the enemy.

 

In separate interviews in San Jose and by telephone, Tillman's parents, who are divorced, spoke about their ordeal with the Army with simmering frustration and anger. A series of military investigations have offered differing accounts of Tillman's death. The most recent report revealed more deeply the confusion and disarray surrounding the mission he was on, and more clearly showed that the family had been kept in the dark about details of his death.

 

The latest investigation, reported by the Washington Post earlier this month, showed that soldiers in Afghanistan knew almost immediately that they had killed Tillman by mistake in what they believed was a firefight with enemies on a tight canyon road.

 

That information was slow to make it back to the United States, the report said, and Army officials here were unaware that his death April 22, 2004, was fratricide when they notified the family that Tillman had been shot.

 

Over the next 10 days, however, top-ranking Army officials -- including the theater commander, Army Gen. John Abizaid -- were told of the reports that Tillman had been killed by his own men, the investigation said. The Army waited until a formal investigation was finished before telling the family -- which was weeks after the nationally televised memorial service in San Jose that honored Tillman on May 3, 2004.

 

Patrick Tillman Sr., a San Jose lawyer, said he is furious about what he found in the volumes of witness statements and investigative documents the Army has given the family. He decried what he calls a ``botched homicide investigation'' and accuses high-ranking Army officers of presenting ``outright lies'' to the family and to the public.

 

``After it happened, all the people in positions of authority went out of their way to script this,'' Patrick Tillman said. ``They purposely interfered with the investigation. They covered it up. I think they thought they could control it, and they realized that their recruiting efforts were going to go to hell in a handbasket if the truth about his death got out. They blew up their poster boy.''

 

Army representatives maintain the Army has done everything it can to keep the family informed about the investigation, offering to answer relatives' questions and going back to them as investigators gathered more information.

 

Army officials said Friday that the Army ``reaffirms its heartfelt sorrow to the Tillman family and all families who have lost loved ones during this war.'' Brig. Gen. Vincent K. Brooks, an Army spokesman, said the Army acts with compassion and heartfelt commitment when informing grieving families, often a painful duty.

 

``In the case of the death of Cpl. Patrick Tillman, the Army made mistakes in reporting the circumstances of his death to the family,'' Brooks said. ``For these, we apologize. We cannot undo those early mistakes.''

 

Brooks said the Army has ``actively and directly'' informed the Tillman family regarding investigations into his death and has dedicated a team of soldiers and civilians to answering the family's questions through phone calls and personal meetings while ensuring the family ``was as well informed as they could be.''

 

With each new version of events, Mary Tillman's mind swirls with new theories about what really happened and why. She questions how an elite Army unit could gun down its most recognizable member at such close range. She dwells on distances and boulders and piles of documents and the words of frenzied men.

 

``It makes you feel like you're losing your mind in a way,'' she said. ``You imagine things. When you don't know the truth, certain details can be blown out of proportion. The truth may be painful, but it's the truth. You start to contrive all these scenarios that could have taken place because they just kept lying. If you feel you're being lied to, you can never put it to rest.''

 

Patrick Tillman Sr. believes he will never get the truth, and he says he is resigned to that now. But he wants everyone in the chain of command to face discipline for ``dishonorable acts.''

 

``Maybe lying's not a big deal anymore,'' he said. ``Pat's dead, and this isn't going to bring him back. But these guys should have been held up to scrutiny, right up the chain of command, and no one has.''

342317[/snapback]

 

None of this is a surprise from a government that went to war over WMD's that never existed.

 

PTR

[KRC]

None of this is a surprise from a government that went to war over WMD's that never existed.

 

PTR

342328[/snapback]

 

Iraq never had WMD's? You should let the IAEA and UN know that they were wasting their time since the end of GWI. All those inspections and resolutions were for nothing. Also, you need to let the Iranians know that all the deaths they incurred from Iraq's WMD's were just an illusion. Also, while you are at it, let the Kurds know that the thousands slaughtered via Iraqi WMD did not actually die. Funny, you seem to know something that the ENTIRE WORLD didn't.

[kota]

I just wish people would let him R.I.P.

[Alaska Darin]

The Army waited until a formal investigation was finished before telling the family

342317[/snapback]

Silly Army, waiting until you know exactly what happened to tell the family.

 

Once again, "journalism" only to get the lemmings in a tizzy about pretty much nothing.

 

Newsflash: Combat sucks. Alot of people with weapons shooting at alot of other people equipped similiarly. Sometimes bad things happen. Too bad we all can't just get along.

[zow2]

The parents are angry and bitter,,,,very understandable. If the Army really wanted to cover it up, however, they would not have given his father volumes of witness statements and investigative documents. Tillman joined the Rangers which is incredibly risky and brave. No one made him join.

[boomerjamhead]

At what point do we finally stop talking about Pat Tillman?

 

Disclaimer - my friend knows his parents and shares thier loss.

[Pete]

At what point do we finally stop talking about Pat Tillman?

 

Disclaimer - my friend knows his parents and shares thier loss.

342727[/snapback]

May we never stop talking about Pat Tillman!

[Ghost of BiB]

None of this is a surprise from a government that went to war over WMD's that never existed.

 

PTR

342328[/snapback]

 

And folks like you really know so little of what actually goes on that I barely even comment on this stuff anymore.

[jarthur31]

Silly Army, waiting until you know exactly what happened to tell the family.

 

Once again, "journalism" only to get the lemmings in a tizzy about pretty much nothing.

 

Newsflash:  Combat sucks.  Alot of people with weapons shooting at alot of other people equipped similiarly.  Sometimes bad things happen.  Too bad we all can't just get along.

342606[/snapback]

 

Darin, I respect you. However, friendly fire catastrophes can be avoided with great communication and execution. Neither, it seems, came into play that fateful day.

 

I don't believe the military emphasizes these points enough. They seem pressured by the media for instant results which is a stupid thing, IMHO.

[PromoTheRobot]

And folks like you really know so little of what actually goes on that I barely even comment on this stuff anymore.

342784[/snapback]

Funny...I could make the same comment about people like you.

 

PTR

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Funny...I could make the same comment about people like you.

 

PTR

342821[/snapback]

 

The ignorance of that statement is absolutely astounding.

 

Please tell us, what kind of "people" is "Ghost of BiB" that he knows so little about this?

[MDH]

Iraq never had WMD's? You should let the IAEA and UN know that they were wasting their time since the end of GWI. All those inspections and resolutions were for nothing. Also, you need to let the Iranians know that all the deaths they incurred from Iraq's WMD's were just an illusion. Also, while you are at it, let the Kurds know that the thousands slaughtered via Iraqi WMD did not actually die. Funny, you seem to know something that the ENTIRE WORLD didn't.

342334[/snapback]

 

I'm so sick of the right wing's attempts to spin this thing into some positive direction. If the Clinton administration had done the exact same thing the Bush admistration did the right wing would be lambasting them, but since its "their guy" the right finds any and every way to make excuses.

 

Its why I'm sick of both the Dems and the Reps, they're so busy defending "their side" that they lose interest in any semblence of what's right.

[GG]

I'm so sick of the right wing's attempts to spin this thing into some positive direction.  If the Clinton administration had done the exact same thing the Bush admistration did the right wing would be lambasting them, but since its "their guy" the right finds any and every way to make excuses.

 

Its why I'm sick of both the Dems and the Reps, they're so busy defending "their side" that they lose interest in any semblence of what's right.

342828[/snapback]

 

Funny me, but I read it as a direct response to a wayward post. Just the plain facts.

[erynthered]

I'm so sick of the right wing's attempts to spin this thing into some positive direction.  If the Clinton administration had done the exact same thing the Bush admistration did the right wing would be lambasting them, but since its "their guy" the right finds any and every way to make excuses.

 

Its why I'm sick of both the Dems and the Reps, they're so busy defending "their side" that they lose interest in any semblence of what's right.

342828[/snapback]

 

 

Where in that post was anything said about Clinton or Bush. What he posted was fact.

[PromoTheRobot]

    The ignorance of that statement is absolutely astounding.

 

Please tell us, what kind of "people" is "Ghost of BiB" that he knows so little about this?

342825[/snapback]

It's pretty obvious we are on different sides of the fence. You obviously want to believe in everything the Bush administration says and does. I find the dishonestly, coverups and lies from our current leaders indefensable.

 

The right always reacts the same way to bad press...liberal bias...beating a dead horse...blah, blah. But they don't seem to care one bit whether it's true or not! That's because, frankly, the truth is the enemy of the right. The truth is inconvenient. The truth won't help to recruiting. The truth makes us question what is really going on.

 

Sorry, bud...the truth is a B word.

 

PTR

[GG]

It's pretty obvious we are on different sides of the fence.  You obviously want to believe in everything the Bush administration says and does.  I find the dishonestly, coverups and lies from our current leaders indefensable.

 

The right always reacts the same way to bad press...liberal bias...beating a dead horse...blah, blah.  But they don't seem to care one bit whether it's true or not!  That's because, frankly, the truth is the enemy of the right.  The truth is inconvenient.  The truth won't help to recruiting.  The truth makes us question what is really going on.

 

Sorry, bud...the truth is a B word.

 

PTR

342834[/snapback]

 

I would agree with the above, if it came from a person who's actually neck deep in the thing you like to call a quagmire.

 

(ps - Tillman was killed in Afghanistan for people who are geographically challenged)

[Bad Things]

How DARE they say bad things about the Military!!!

We should send these whiners to Gitmo.

 

Rumsfelds ethics and candor are unquestionable!

[/dev/null]

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[stuckincincy]

War is a hard business. Most every day starts and stops with a fog.

 

You will lose them if you become a Pollyanna organization, and choices about what to say run up and down the ranks from top to bottom. In battle, it is a mistake to admit a mistake; it's poor thinking that may well cause other casualties.

 

There are not nor should there be daily parent-teacher conferences. If you want to be petted, and bask the glow of idealty, keep out of the military.

 

I suspect the late Mr. Tillman would not be pleased with the parsing that is occuring.

 

Respect his death.

[Alaska Darin]

Darin, I respect you.  However, friendly fire catastrophes can be avoided with great communication and execution.  Neither, it seems, came into play that fateful day. 

 

I don't believe the military emphasizes these points enough.  They seem pressured by the media for instant results which is a stupid thing, IMHO.

342814[/snapback]

Is that based on your vast experience in training? Because if it isn't, let me be the first to tell you to STFU. Oh, and I mean that in a very respectful way.

 

The guys on the ground could give a flying blzrul's ass about instant results. The big problem with combat is it's loud, dangerous, and confusing and there's only so much training that can be done - simulations are close but not the same. Hence the reason people tend to get dead doing it.

[Alaska Darin]

None of this is a surprise from a government that went to war over WMD's that never existed.

 

PTR

342328[/snapback]

Newsflash: Pat Tillman was killed in Afghanistan. Why let a little thing like that get in the way of mynah bird stupidity?

[Ghost of BiB]

It's pretty obvious we are on different sides of the fence.  You obviously want to believe in everything the Bush administration says and does.  I find the dishonestly, coverups and lies from our current leaders indefensable.

 

The right always reacts the same way to bad press...liberal bias...beating a dead horse...blah, blah.  But they don't seem to care one bit whether it's true or not!  That's because, frankly, the truth is the enemy of the right.  The truth is inconvenient.  The truth won't help to recruiting.  The truth makes us question what is really going on.

 

Sorry, bud...the truth is a B word.

 

PTR

342834[/snapback]

 

We are all so glad and astounded that you know the "truth". May the true story be told. I'm all ears.

 

I find the dishonestly, coverups and lies from our current leaders indefensable.

 

Well, tell us the truth then. We're waiting. I am, at least. OH...that's right. I'm being blinded by the right!

 

Hey Dev?

 

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[boomerjamhead]

May we never stop talking about Pat Tillman!

342731[/snapback]

 

Why do you have such a boner for Tillman? Is he everything that you are not?

[boomerjamhead]

We are all so glad and astounded that you know the "truth". May the true story be told. I'm all ears.

 

I find the dishonestly, coverups and lies from our current leaders indefensable.

 

Well, tell us the truth then. We're waiting. I am, at least. OH...that's right. I'm being blinded by the right!

 

Hey Dev?

 

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342880[/snapback]

 

Don't even waste you time on a retard like Prohomo.

[Ghost of BiB]

Don't even waste you time on a retard like Prohomo.

342928[/snapback]

 

Fag?

[Pete]

Why do you have such a boner for Tillman?  Is he everything that you are not?

342927[/snapback]

what the fug is wrong with you? Pat Tillman is role model. I talk about Randy Shugart and Gary Gordon too. I also talk about Jesus Christ, Gandhi, Lincoln, MLK, Mother Theresa. What the fug is your problem? Should we forget great people or should we learn from them? I will choose the later

 

BTW I am a great citizen, friend, brother, son, etc but thanks for asking

[boomerjamhead]

what the fug is wrong with you?  Pat Tillman is role model.  I talk about Randy Shugart and Gary Gordon too.  I also talk about Jesus Christ, Gandhi, Lincoln, MLK, Mother Theresa.  What the fug is your problem?  Should we forget great people or should we learn from them?  I will choose the later

 

BTW I am a great citizen, friend, brother, son, etc but thanks for asking

342992[/snapback]

 

Ever heard of Kevin Tillman? How is Pat any much more of a hero than his brother? Lick balls.

[KRC]

I'm so sick of the right wing's attempts to spin this thing into some positive direction.  If the Clinton administration had done the exact same thing the Bush admistration did the right wing would be lambasting them, but since its "their guy" the right finds any and every way to make excuses.

 

Its why I'm sick of both the Dems and the Reps, they're so busy defending "their side" that they lose interest in any semblence of what's right.

342828[/snapback]

 

Your argument might carry some weight if I were actually a Republican and if I actually were a Bush supporter. I am neither. PTR said WMD never existed. Facts prove otherwise, namely the people killed from Iraq's use of the stuff.

 

Sorry if the truth is getting in the way of your agenda. You might want to do something about that. It hurts your credibility.

 

As far as PTR's post, he complains about right-wing apologists, but it is pretty hypocritical of him to do the exact same thing for his side. It is pretty embarassing, if you ask me.

[KRC]

We are all so glad and astounded that you know the "truth". May the true story be told. I'm all ears.

 

I find the dishonestly, coverups and lies from our current leaders indefensable.

 

Well, tell us the truth then. We're waiting. I am, at least. OH...that's right. I'm being blinded by the right!

 

Hey Dev?

 

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342880[/snapback]

 

What the hell would you know about this stuff? We need to pay attention to the MoveOn.org wackos. Only they know the truth. Seriously. They make it up on a regular basis.

 

Just run along and go back to your job. You know, the one that deals with this stuff on a daily basis. You have absolutely NO qualifications to talk about this stuff. Let's have a left-wing hack enlighten us on the truth. Go ahead, Promo...

[VABills]

Darin, I respect you.  However, friendly fire catastrophes can be avoided with great communication and execution.  Neither, it seems, came into play that fateful day. 

 

I don't believe the military emphasizes these points enough.  They seem pressured by the media for instant results which is a stupid thing, IMHO.

342814[/snapback]

Okay couple of things.

 

First off friendly fire accidents occur all the time. Hell I had a friend get a 500 LB bomb dropped about 100 feet from his position in training by an F18. Blew his ear membranes out and he was basically deaf for a month, he was one of the lucky ines in his platoon. Again that was training.

 

BTW that was about a month after they came back from Team Spirit in Korea where one of the choppers his platoon was on slammed into the side of a mountain and killed 27 guys instantly.

 

I have seen two people shot on a rifle range during qualifications. Both were bad weapons, one went full auto when the sear snapped and the guy didn't know what to do so he swung the weapon around while finger was still on the trigger. Shot the Base Commanders son who was a 2nd Lieutenant. The other was a misfire by the range officer, shot someone foot when a .45 mischambered and discharged.

 

I have seen an Ospry go in the drink at Quantico, 4 Marines died in that accident and it looked mild.

 

Guess what accidents happen during control training, what do you think happens in real combat. sh-- happens and all the communications, which you can't really hear during a firefight, and execution, whatever that means, have no bearing when the bad guys don't do exactly what you want them to. Stop watching TV and thinking that is what it is like. It isn't.

[UConn James]

I have seen two people shot on a rifle range during qualifications.  Both were bad weapons, one went full auto when the sear snapped and the guy didn't know what to do so he swung the weapon around while finger was still on the trigger.  Shot the Base Commanders son who was a 2nd Lieutenant.  The other was a misfire by the range officer, shot someone foot when a .45 mischambered and discharged.

343150[/snapback]

 

Did you see the Jessica Simpson/Nick Whatever USO special on ABC last night? She was on the range with an M-16 and swung it over as she turned around; the person next to her said "Whoa!" and had to brush it back downrange. Some people do not have total respect for firearms.

 

My brother was her security escort when she did a tour in Afghanistan, I think it was in '02. He's got an autograph on Stuff or Maxim. I quote: "Nice T&A but there's nothing there. And she sings like crap."

[VABills]

Did you see the Jessica Simpson/Nick Whatever USO special on ABC last night? She was on the range with an M-16 and swung it over as she turned around; the person next to her had to brush it back downrange. Some people do not have total respect for firearms.

 

My brother was her security escort when she did a tour in Afghanistan, I think it was in '02. He's got an autograph on Stuff or Maxim. I quote: "Nice T&A but there's nothing there. And she sings like crap."

343211[/snapback]

No I didn't see it.

 

But exactly my point. All it takes is 2 seconds of someone not recognizing someone or having a brain fart on the battle field to get someone killed. Thanks for validating my point.

[Pete]

Ever heard of Kevin Tillman?  How is Pat any much more of a hero than his brother?  Lick balls.

343091[/snapback]

Yes !@#$ I have heard or Pat Tillman. Someone thinks highly of Pat Tillman and you want to pick a fight because? Pick your battles man

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

No I didn't see it. 

 

But exactly my point.  All it takes is 2 seconds of someone not recognizing someone or having a brain fart on the battle field to get someone killed. 

343214[/snapback]

 

Or not even. The simple fact is that war is about the application of violence in what is at best barely controlled chaos. And when you start putting that much deadly sh-- in the air, some of it is bound to go where you didn't intend it to, regardless of your level of training or communications.

[Tux of Borg]

If we're going to talk about training accidents...

 

I've had the joy of having friendly mortar rounds called in on my position. Just because some !@#$ can't read a map. A piece of shrapnel the size of a brick landed about 3 feet from my head.

 

One time we were clearing a trench and I was the first man in. I low crawled up to the entrance, threw in a grenade and cleared the opening. The 2nd guy in had a star cluster that he was suppose to pop off once he was in. Well, when he jumped in he accidentally set off the star cluster. I was at the T intersection at the end of the hallway and looked back to see this thing bouncing off the walls heading right towards me. I tell you, my ass puckered up pretty tight as that thing flew right past me.

 

For my 7th parachute jump we did a night time jump in Georgia. I exited out of the aircraft and had what is known as a cigarette roll. That's where your suspension lines get tangled and your parachute doesn't fully open. I couldn't get my reserve chute open in time and shattered part of my right ankle. I was lucky and didn't need surgery, but it took some time for my ankle to heal before I could jump again.

 

But its all good... it's part of the risks you take by being in the military.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

But its all good... it's part of the risks you take by being in the military.

343437[/snapback]

 

Which is something that a civilian would never understand.

 

I'd like to see some of the linguini-types around here work on a gun battery for a day or two.

 

MWAA!

[VABills]

But its all good... it's part of the risks you take by being in the military.

343437[/snapback]

 

That and listening to frumpie moms and tree hugging liberals complain on how you must have been doing it wrong and Bush is bad for making you train so that you get hurt.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

That and listening to frumpie moms and tree hugging liberals complain on how you must have been doing it wrong and Bush is bad for making you train so that you get hurt.

343473[/snapback]

 

"The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war."

 

Do recruits at Parris Island still have the right to call "time out, I'm stressed" when the DI's yelling at them? Or did they finally ditch that BS?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

"The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war."

 

Do recruits at Parris Island still have the right to call "time out, I'm stressed" when the DI's yelling at them?  Or did they finally ditch that BS?

343479[/snapback]

 

We used that saying at Ft. Sill.

 

"The more sweat in training, the less blood in combat! Drive on Drill Sergeant!"