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Is There So Little Love for Tremaine Edmunds?


Shaw66
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I think the expectations for Tremaine were so high he’ll never live up to them.   But when you watch the differences between him and Milano they are so far apart on impact plays and just instincts in general.  At this point I look at Tremaine like I did of Paul Posluszny.

 

 Sure, he does give QB’s something to be concerned about running around like the predator in the middle of the field but it just seems like he should just make so many more impact plays with his size and athleticism and he just doesn’t.  I’m ok if we keep him or let him walk, we locked up the more important linebacker last year imo.  

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7 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Interesting comparison. Fletcher had 5 INT in 5 yrs to go with 5 forced fumbles and 14.5 sacks. So far in 4 1/2 season Edmunds has 4 INT, only 2 FF, and 6.5 sacks.  Fits the narrative that Edmunds just doesn't make that many game changing plays.  I know different eras/schemes and all those arguments....

For the record Fletcher continued to create turnovers in WAS, with a combined 21 INT and FF in 7 years.   

 

I only looked at London's tackle stats for the WTF's, not anything else.  I'm actually surprised that Edmunds has 6.5 sacks, since The Edmunds Report showed how singularly ineffective he is at rushing the passer.  All the "he made the tackle 6-8 yards downfield" posts just brought back memories of all the London Fletcher hate in his last year here.  London Fletcher was not just a good MLB, he was a GREAT MLB, just short of HOF consideration.  If he'd played on a good team, he would have had a shot at the HOF.  I'm not sure if London leaving was Donahoe or Marv, but either way, the Bills blew it WRT London Fletcher.  I hope they don't blow it by letting Edmunds go.

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9 hours ago, Flucod said:

Did he get credit for a tackle on the whiff to push the RB out of bounds and then the RB went another 8 yards and stepped out? I cannot remember a single play he actually made last night. I can remember at least 15 times he could not read the run and watched the RB go by and is just standing there confused.

 

Milano ran side to side and drilled the RB for no gain, THAT ply I remember and the INT.

 

Edmunds needs to tackle low on RB, he is too small to tackle by the shoulders and he cannot hit.

 

He has played great this year until last night, last night looked like a different player out there.

 

That play and the one where he had the RB wrapped up for minimal gain only to get dragged 5+ yards downfield really stood out to me. 

 

 

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12 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Sometimes I wonder if I watch the same games as Tremaine Edmunds fans..

 

I saw a guy who was getting eat up by blocks, picking the wrong gaps all Game, and getting run over by Aj Dillon .

 

Sure he made 16 tackles, but how many were those 6-10’yards downfield?

 

Now I will say Edmunds has had a pretty good year to date.

 

But I don’t see how he had a good game yesterday as I thought he was borderline horrible.

 

Would love to see a breakdown of his play including specifics about the defensive fits in general, his specific reads and fits, and diagrams showing what he was suppose to do versus what he actually did.

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18 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

Would love to see a breakdown of his play including specifics about the defensive fits in general, his specific reads and fits, and diagrams showing what he was suppose to do versus what he actually did.

I think the reason why a lot of people at cover 1 and the film loves Edmunds is because he “does what he’s supposed to do” for the most part.

 

However, it seems like he can never just go off script and “make a play “.

 

Thats what makes good/great players in the nfl.

 

See Milano for one. I’m sure he doesn’t hit every gap perfect, but the dude just makes impact plays game after game

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i dont like linebackers who get run over 6+ yards downfield on run plays.   somebody needs to teach Edmunds about leverage.    for a guy his size,  hes playing much smaller.

 

hes played better this season until the GB game.   not sure if its him,  or the better play by the new DTs.   

Edited by bigduke6
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10 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I think the reason why a lot of people at cover 1 and the film loves Edmunds is because he “does what he’s supposed to do” for the most part.

 

However, it seems like he can never just go off script and “make a play “.

 

Thats what makes good/great players in the nfl.

 

See Milano for one. I’m sure he doesn’t hit every gap perfect, but the dude just makes impact plays game after game

 

Oh, I meant I'd like to see you provide that breakdown.

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14 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

16 tackles is nothing to sneer at, even if it happened because the Packers featured the run.  Yes, the Packers had a lot of statistical success running the ball, but the Bills are willing to give them that success.   I know that sounds stupid, and McDermott would never say it, but let's face it:   This team is built to say the opponent, "We're going to put up 28 or more - we challenge you to match it."   Their defensive style very much is, "If you're going to move the ball, you're going to do it only with long, sustained drives.  If you can do that, you'll get some scores against us, but we don't think you can do that and get to 28."   And that is exactly what happened last night.   The way that kind of defensive philosophy succeeds is that you make a lot tackles (notice that the Bills often lose time of possession and often have fewer plays than the opponent, which means the Bills are making a lot tackles).  Last night, those tackles came to Edmunds.   

 

 

Shaw, great post, well thought out ... but I think you're missing one big weakness with Edmunds. Tackling the ball carrier 5 yards from the line of scrimmage isn't a win.

 

I'll give you the most two recent examples of Bills linebackers who had a ton of tackles and weren't very good:

- Preston Brown - literally led the league in tackles in 2018, but was a liability vs the pass and was slow.

- Paul Posluszny - same story. Great instincts, but a slow twitch player with bad lateral mobility.

 

Edmunds is different in that he is an explosive athlete and is reasonably strong in coverage. However, call it lack of instincts, or awareness, or slow twitch, but he has the same issue as Brown and Posluszny, which make him an average to slightly above average player -- he doesn't blow up plays.

 

Nobody really thinks that Edmunds is a bad player, but we're collectively frustrated that the #16 overall draft pick, who has all the physical upside in the world, can't seem to make explosive plays after 5 years in the league. We assume he'll command $15M/Yr+ due to his consistently untapped "upside" ... and we collectively don't want to pay it.

 

Hope this helps give the perspective you need. This seems to be a common theme, at least with my group of well educated Bills Fan friends.

 

Edited by Rigotz
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6 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

My apologies. I thought since you were throwing around statements as if they were fact that you'd be able to back them up. That's my mistake.

Nope I can’t, neither can any fan as we don’t have the play calls/responsibilities for each player on each play …lol

 

So does mean none of us should have an opinion on players?  Based on your logic there…

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6 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Nope I can’t, neither can any fan as we don’t have the play calls/responsibilities for each player on each play …lol

 

So does mean none of us should have an opinion on players?  Based on your logic there…

 

If you know football you can get a pretty clear picture of what a players responsibility is based on alignments and post-snap movements. This isn't a "you" problem. It's just amusing to me how much statements like "we constantly fit the wrong gaps" gets thrown around here by people who have zero understanding of scheme or, more specifically, how run fits work.

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2 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Sadly, Edmunds will likely always be a mediocre player who will never live up to his God given athletic ability…

 

"Mediocre" is an inaccurate characterization.

 

We tend to always judge players more on where they were picked, or the capital we invested in them, instead of on their own merits. I can accept that he may not have lived up to the draft position & trade for that position yet.  But he's a very good player, and a key part of our defense.  He's not mediocre.

 

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4 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

If you know football you can get a pretty clear picture of what a players responsibility is based on alignments and post-snap movements. This isn't a "you" problem. It's just amusing to me how much statements like "we constantly fit the wrong gaps" gets thrown around here by people who have zero understanding of scheme or, more specifically, how run fits work.

I never once said “this is what happened because he didn’t fit the “A gap well” or whatever spin you want to put on it.

 

I said “I saw a guy” and listed the things I thought he didn’t do well.

 

Its called an opinion.

 

It’s a message board. Believe it or not , this is usually the place that people share their opinion on the bills and football and not everything is “black and white”

 

Which is why people agree/disagree with different “opinions”.

Edited by BillsFan130
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