Impact of Dobbs and Abortion Laws

[ChiGoose]

2 hours ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

This is so f'd up.  We had a system that worked, it wasn't perfect but it worked.   This that we have now is just sad.  And why?  Christians.   

I wouldn’t say Christians as much as right wing ideologues.

 

Some people actually believe this stuff, but for those in power, it’s mainly just a tool to get the masses to support them. They know that the women in their lives will always have access to abortions if needed. But in their minds, this plays well with rubes and helps them keep power so they can do what they really want: transfer wealth from the average American to the rich. 

[BillStime]

Yea, women should have to get a referral from local politicians for health care - gtfoh you fascist

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

On 10/22/2022 at 4:09 AM, ChiGoose said:

I wouldn’t say Christians as much as right wing ideologues.

 

Some people actually believe this stuff, but for those in power, it’s mainly just a tool to get the masses to support them. They know that the women in their lives will always have access to abortions if needed. But in their minds, this plays well with rubes and helps them keep power so they can do what they really want: transfer wealth from the average American to the rich. 

Transfer wealth from the average American to the rich? Please explain. 

[L Ron Burgundy]

8 hours ago, BillStime said:

Yea, women should have to get a referral from local politicians for health care - gtfoh you fascist

 

 

I honestly wish there were a way women could just decide the rules on this 100%.  Post birth,  sure men should be involved.   

[Boatdrinks]

18 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

I honestly wish there were a way women could just decide the rules on this 100%.  Post birth,  sure men should be involved.   

I’m not against this - if they could ever acknowledge that men can’t get pregnant. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

18 hours ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

I honestly wish there were a way women could just decide the rules on this 100%.  Post birth,  sure men should be involved.   

im all for this logic.

 

Only if the law directly impacts you and your life. 
 

only women decide abortion

 

only people who pay taxes decide tax law

 

only parents of school children decide how schools shall run 

 

Only victims of crime decide how criminals are punished. 
 

i like it

[Tiberius]

 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

 

I hope Elon fact checks this tweet.  Up until 20 weeks you can get an abortion in NC and after if you have a medical emergency (I can live with this).  Here's a hint: don't wait for months to decide.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Doc

[BillStime]

 

[SoCal Deek]

10 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

Huh? Talk about a nitwit! The discussion  is not about ‘having a baby’.  It’s about killing a baby. Sheeessh what an idiot. 

[ChiGoose]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

Huh? Talk about a nitwit! The discussion  is not about ‘having a baby’.  It’s about killing a baby. Sheeessh what an idiot. 

 

Or making a woman go septic with a nonviable pregnancy before she can get treatment. That's a nice bonus too!

[B-Man]

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

 

Or making a woman go septic with a nonviable pregnancy before she can get treatment. That's a nice bonus too!

 

Good Lord.

 

I can't believe that you expect anyone to believe that lie.

 

That situation is (thankfully) very rare and is due mostly to poor physicians, not any laws.

 

I worked for over thirty years in local hospitals, including a Catholic one.

 

NO ONE who ever showed up with a non-viable baby was ever turned away, much less not treated.

 

Shame on you for lying down in the mud with B.S. and Tibs.

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by B-Man

[ChiGoose]

26 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

Good Lord.

 

I can't believe that you expect anyone to believe that lie.

 

That situation is (thankfully) very rare and is due mostly to poor physicians, not any laws.

 

I worked for over thirty years in local hospitals, including a Catholic one.

 

NO ONE who ever showed up with a non-viable baby was ever turned away, much less not treated.

 

Shame on you for lying down in the mud with B.S. and Tibs.

 

 

 

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-science-health-medication-lupus-e4042947e4cc0c45e38837d394199033

 

“

Munoz said he faced an awful predicament with a recent patient who had started to miscarry and developed a dangerous womb infection. The fetus still had signs of a heartbeat, so an immediate abortion — the usual standard of care — would have been illegal under Texas law. 

“We physically watched her get sicker and sicker and sicker” until the fetal heartbeat stopped the next day, “and then we could intervene,” he said. The patient developed complications, required surgery, lost multiple liters of blood and had to be put on a breathing machine “all because we were essentially 24 hours behind.’’

In a study published this month in the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, doctors at two Texas hospitals cited the cases of 28 women less than 23 weeks pregnant who were treated for dangerous pregnancies. The doctors noted that all of the women had recommended abortions delayed by nine days because fetal heart activity was detected. Of those, nearly 60% developed severe complications — nearly double the number of complications experienced by patients in other states who had immediate therapeutic abortions. Of eight live births among the Texas cases, seven died within hours. The eighth, born at 24 weeks, had severe complications including brain bleeding, a heart defect, lung disease and intestinal and liver problems.”

[BillStime]

 

[B-Man]

Yes, I read the account of the poor woman in Texas that you had posted a week ago.

 

As I stated this is due to to poor decisions (and cowardice) by the local physicians, not politicians ( though they deserve their own type of blame.)

 

Thankfully this is extremely rare.

 

and as you have been reminded time and time again, a baby dies every abortion.

 

 

A survey of more than 2.4 million aborting women performed by the states of Florida, Louisiana, Minnesota, Nebraska, South Dakota and Utah during the years 1996 to 2020 gives us an accurate estimate of the number of “hard case” abortions, since these are the numbers that abortion clinics must report in official documents to these states:

 

1.14% are done to save the life or physical health of the mother.

 

1.28% to preserve the mental health of the mother.

 

0.39% in cases of rape or *****.

 

0.69% for fetal birth defects, or eugenics.

 

3.50% for all the hard cases combined.

 

96.50% of all abortions are therefore performed for social or economic reasons.

 

Even the Guttmacher Institute puts the number of abortions done for the hard cases under 7% after doing several surveys of women obtaining abortions (the Guttmacher Institute was the research arm of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, the largest chain of abortion clinics in the United States. It is considered the most reliable provider of accurate statistics on abortion).

 

 

 

 

https://www.hli.org/resources/why-women-abort/

 

https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/journals/3711005.pdf

 

 

.

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-science-health-medication-lupus-e4042947e4cc0c45e38837d394199033

 

“

Munoz said he faced an awful predicament with a recent patient who had started to miscarry and developed a dangerous womb infection. The fetus still had signs of a heartbeat, so an immediate abortion — the usual standard of care — would have been illegal under Texas law. 

“We physically watched her get sicker and sicker and sicker” until the fetal heartbeat stopped the next day, “and then we could intervene,” he said. The patient developed complications, required surgery, lost multiple liters of blood and had to be put on a breathing machine “all because we were essentially 24 hours behind.’’

In a study published this month in the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, doctors at two Texas hospitals cited the cases of 28 women less than 23 weeks pregnant who were treated for dangerous pregnancies. The doctors noted that all of the women had recommended abortions delayed by nine days because fetal heart activity was detected. Of those, nearly 60% developed severe complications — nearly double the number of complications experienced by patients in other states who had immediate therapeutic abortions. Of eight live births among the Texas cases, seven died within hours. The eighth, born at 24 weeks, had severe complications including brain bleeding, a heart defect, lung disease and intestinal and liver problems.”

Goose…I’m neither an attorney or a doctor but aren’t the things you’re describing the sort of cases that are regularly adjudicated in medical courts of ethics? I’m certain all of these cases will work themselves out. Give it some time for the process to work. The Supreme Court decision, like every ruling in a major case, will have ramifications that lower courts and legislatures will work through.

[ChiGoose]

57 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Goose…I’m neither an attorney or a doctor but aren’t the things you’re describing the sort of cases that are regularly adjudicated in medical courts of ethics? I’m certain all of these cases will work themselves out. Give it some time for the process to work. The Supreme Court decision, like every ruling in a major case, will have ramifications that lower courts and legislatures will work through.

When Roe was the law of the land, a woman whose pregnancy was determined to be not viable would generally be given the option of either waiting for it to resolve or having an abortion. Given the risks of waiting (sepsis, etc.), the best course of action is generally an abortion. 
 

In the Dobbs world with the recent abortion laws, if the pregnancy is non-viable but doesn’t fit within a statutory exception (the fetus still has a heartbeat), the doctors cannot offer an abortion. If the woman isn’t sick enough that her life is in danger, she cannot get one. Most likely, she’ll be sent home to pass the fetus on her own or wait until she’s sick enough to get treatment. 
 

What we see now in states with strict abortion laws is that even in the easy cases where the pregnancy is non-viable and doctors would normally perform an abortion, they are instead having to talk to lawyers or present the case before a committee. During this time, the woman’s health often deteriorates. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by ChiGoose

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

When Roe was the law of the land, a woman whose pregnancy was determined to be not viable would generally be given the option of either waiting for it to resolve or having an abortion. Given the risks of waiting (sepsis, etc.), the best course of action is generally an abortion. 
 

In the Dobbs world with the recent abortion laws, if the pregnancy is non-viable but doesn’t fit within a statutory exception (the fetus still has a heartbeat), the doctors cannot offer an abortion. If the woman isn’t sick enough that her life is in danger, she cannot get one. Most likely, she’ll be sent home to pass the fetus on her own or wait until she’s sick enough to get treatment. 
 

What we see now in states with strict abortion laws is that even in the easy cases where the pregnancy is non-viable and doctors would normally perform an abortion, they are instead having to talk to lawyers or present the case before a committee. During this time, the woman’s health often deteriorates. 

And these things will be worked out. You seem to want them to opt for immediately ‘pulling the plug’. I pray to God you’re never the one laying there in distress. You’ll be a goner.

Once again, we’re talking about an actual human life here!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

really thought this would matter…. But it’s looking like this is peeing in the ocean compared to how badly things that matter much much more are going. 
 

On the verge of the biggest party collapse I’ve ever seen. 

[ChiGoose]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And these things will be worked out. You seem to want them to opt for immediately ‘pulling the plug’. I pray to God you’re never the one laying there in distress. You’ll be a goner.

Once again, we’re talking about an actual human life here!

I’ll never forget standing next to my wife while she was administered methotrexate to abort the ectopic pregnancy.

 

Nor will I forget sitting anxiously in the waiting room while she was given a D&C for a miscarriage, reading about a proposed bill in Ohio that would require ectopic pregnancies to be reimplanted, a thing that has never been done.

 

If the people who claim to be so pro-life actually valued life, states run by Republicans wouldn’t score so poorly on health, longevity, and wellness metrics.

 

If the goal was to reduce or eliminate elective abortions, these same people would be proponents of comprehensive sex education and easily obtainable contraceptives. 
 

But it’s not about preventing abortions. It never was. Those elected officials pushing these policies know that their wives and daughters will always be able to get an abortion if they want one.