Bills assistant coaching moves

[Matt_In_NH]

2 hours ago, stevewin said:

Gross, how could you?

[Buffalo Boy]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

There may be something to the notion that Cam Newton played a role in getting the $#|+ knocked out of Cam Newton, by preferring to run over developing certain aspects of his passing game. 

    I agree that Cam didn’t have the work ethic to improve his mechanics that Josh does but a designed run or option play called by the OC is another thing entirely.

    

[Big Turk]

Wow, that is a fantastic hire in Shula!  Adding more firepower to their staff

[First Round Bust]

call me crazy ...queue the continued Carolina connection...can Cam come calling ? cuz Caroina coaches congregating congealing, conspiring..concened ?

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

While I checked " agree" because it also disturbs me that we now have so many bodies involved in the Cam Newton Career Destruction Fiasco involved in the Bills Offensive Brain Trust, I think the question of Cam Newton is....complicated.

 

Just like Daboll said about "it takes a village" where developing Josh is concerned....I think it takes organizational commitment to develop an OL and run game and quality WR to protect a QB.  Then it takes commitment on the part of the QB to develop his abilities to read the D and to deliver accurate passes all over the field.

 

There may be something to the notion that Cam Newton played a role in getting the $#|+ knocked out of Cam Newton, by preferring to run over developing certain aspects of his passing game. 

 

There's also the question of the targets he had.  Greg Olsen was amazing, but Kelvin Benjamin was...inconsistent, and who else?

 

 

 

 

To be fair, there's a lot of preparation that goes into an offense, and reasons to hire a guy to fill them that go beyond "you think he needs these other guys" in a "needs them them mentally" vs. "needs them to fill organizational needs and prepare"

 

 

I guess.  How many teams pick a new OC and follow that soon after with a new "Senior Offensive Assistant"?

[BearNorth]

Mike Shula is considered one of the guru's of the Erhardt-Perkins system, been involved since the very early days.

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

?

 

Bills were 3rd in the league for INTs and 4th for defensive TOs last season.

 

What would qualify as opportunistic to you?

Yeah, I guess so.  I'm dumb.

 

I just pissed that the Bills didn't get a takeaway in the final 13 seconds.

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Wow, that is a fantastic hire in Shula!  Adding more firepower to their staff

I like it, too.  

 

I thought Daboll was lacking on the creativity side.  This group will have plenty of ideas. 

[eball]

4 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

Jeebus, Draconator is in Yolo mode. Nice work. Thanks. As for Shula, his dad was only 5-17 against the Bills in his career, so Mike needs to step it up. 

 

4 hours ago, Rico said:

I think you’re missing a decade or 2.

 

Thanks Rico...I was gonna say...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, I guess so.  I'm dumb.

 

Heh.  Nah.  There's a saying that "one AwShit wipes out 10-15 attaboys".  I think in a similar vein, 13 seconds of suck wipes out much fine defense in a lot of memories here.

 

11 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I thought Daboll was lacking on the creativity side.  This group will have plenty of ideas. 

 

Whoaoa, I thought the opposite.  To me, Daboll had excessive creativity and brought it out at the worst times, like say 3rd and 5 on the PIttsburgh 5 yd line with 5 minutes left while we're losing 20-10.  I'd be like "quit with the gimmicks and gadgets and focus on getting the fundamentals right!"

[Shaw66]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

Whoaoa, I thought the opposite.  To me, Daboll had excessive creativity and brought it out at the worst times, like say 3rd and 5 on the PIttsburgh 5 yd line with 5 minutes left while we're losing 20-10.  I'd be like "quit with the gimmicks and gadgets and focus on getting the fundamentals right!"

I think there's a difference.   There's good creativity and bad creativity.  My sense of Daboll is that he would try out a few things, but always fall back on what he knew.   He'd come up with a gadget play or two, but not clever wrinkles that fit into and expanded the offense.  Reid has his gadgets, too, but every week he has some different way to attack you out of his standard offense.   I don't think we saw that kind of creativity from Daboll.  

 

Put it another way.   I think the really good offensive minds, the McVays and the Paytons and the Reids, can look at what defenses are doing and can see the right ways to adjust their offense from week, ways that fit the offense and allow the offense to flow into a somewhat different style of play that counters what defenses are doing.   I think Daboll is a guy who went to school, learned the formula, and followed the formula.  He looks at film and draws up an isolated play that attacks something defenses are doing.  He calls the play a couple of times next week, but the style of play doesn't change, doesn't adapt to the style of the defense.  

 

That's all hopelessly vague, I know, but I've felt that way for a couple of years.   Let's say it this way - I think Daboll is a technician, not an artist or inventor.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

52 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think there's a difference.   There's good creativity and bad creativity.  My sense of Daboll is that he would try out a few things, but always fall back on what he knew.   He'd come up with a gadget play or two, but not clever wrinkles that fit into and expanded the offense.  Reid has his gadgets, too, but every week he has some different way to attack you out of his standard offense.   I don't think we saw that kind of creativity from Daboll.  

 

Put it another way.   I think the really good offensive minds, the McVays and the Paytons and the Reids, can look at what defenses are doing and can see the right ways to adjust their offense from week, ways that fit the offense and allow the offense to flow into a somewhat different style of play that counters what defenses are doing.   I think Daboll is a guy who went to school, learned the formula, and followed the formula.  He looks at film and draws up an isolated play that attacks something defenses are doing.  He calls the play a couple of times next week, but the style of play doesn't change, doesn't adapt to the style of the defense.  

 

That's all hopelessly vague, I know, but I've felt that way for a couple of years.   Let's say it this way - I think Daboll is a technician, not an artist or inventor.  

 

Thanks for the clear explanation. 

 

In part, I disagree with you and I note that the guys who break down film disagree in that they would point out how Daboll would riff on previous plays to bait-n-switch the next defense - McKenzie running endless crossing routes against NWE one week then making a cut for a reception and a nice gain the next while the D expected him to keep going is one small example.  I do think it's selling Daboll short to say he's a guy who learnt a formula and doesn't adapt to the next defense.

 

In part, from the start with Daboll, what you're saying echoed something I felt.  In 2018, I spent way too much of my life watching the Bills failed run plays and trying to figure out what the play was supposed to do and thinking to myself "but I don't think that's how defensive players are looking at that".  I do think he may have a fundamental blind spot where he legit felt that the way to overcome teams doubling Diggs and bracketing Beasley, was to sign a guy who could to some extent play both roles and say "you can't cover all of us".

 

Well, other things being equal, that's true, but if the OL can't hold up because defensive coordinators are correctly diagnosing "***** run defense, they're not gonna try to run, just stunt and shift post snap and overload one side of the line and blanket the field long enough to get there".  And if Keith Butler and Mike Tomlin and Urban Meyer and Tony Dungy and Chris Simms and I can all see that but Daboll can't and can't adjust, it's a problem.

 

I think "creative, but maybe not always a positive creativity" is a good summation.

[Shaw66]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Thanks for the clear explanation. 

 

In part, I disagree with you and I note that the guys who break down film disagree in that they would point out how Daboll would riff on previous plays to bait-n-switch the next defense - McKenzie running endless crossing routes against NWE one week then making a cut for a reception and a nice gain the next while the D expected him to keep going is one small example.  I do think it's selling Daboll short to say he's a guy who learnt a formula and doesn't adapt to the next defense.

 

In part, from the start with Daboll, what you're saying echoed something I felt.  In 2018, I spent way too much of my life watching the Bills failed run plays and trying to figure out what the play was supposed to do and thinking to myself "but I don't think that's how defensive players are looking at that".  I do think he may have a fundamental blind spot where he legit felt that the way to overcome teams doubling Diggs and bracketing Beasley, was to sign a guy who could to some extent play both roles and say "you can't cover all of us".

 

Well, other things being equal, that's true, but if the OL can't hold up because defensive coordinators are correctly diagnosing "***** run defense, they're not gonna try to run, just stunt and shift post snap and overload one side of the line and blanket the field long enough to get there".  And if Keith Butler and Mike Tomlin and Urban Meyer and Tony Dungy and Chris Simms and I can all see that but Daboll can't and can't adjust, it's a problem.

 

I think "creative, but maybe not always a positive creativity" is a good summation.

That's good.  I have some confidence in Dorsey, but I'm not sure for what reason.   I have more in Shula - he was raised on offense, and I think he's seen it all.  

 

I also think it's interesting that Buffalo is becoming a place to resurrect your career.  Frazier, certainly, maybe Daboll, Trubisky, now Shula.  And a guy like Kromer, who's probably never going any higher in coaching ranks, probably wasn't coming back for just any job.  

[Green Lightning]

5 hours ago, eball said:

 

 

Thanks Rico...I was gonna say...

He said and was right. My brain freeze.

[Warcodered]