All Pro Ballot: Bill Barnwell Edition

[78thealltimegreat]

Barnwell is an Allen hater that's

like asking Nick Wright to vote

for Josh for the Pro Bowl 

[billsbackto81]

10 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

The Bills D gets no respect….. maybe because they are not lethal in the pass rush or are somewhat soft in the middle against the run.  The Bills are a coverage defense in a passing league. 

Bingo! Just answered your own question. 

10 hours ago, SWATeam said:

Unfortunately there seems to be a bit of a running renaissance.  Hopefully that's not our downfall.   

If we suffer a downfall it will be our inability to make QBs uncomfortable. Our pass rush is pretty sad. Even the most mediocre of QBs can convert against our front 4. Our offense can play with anyone, even with our average run game.

[SWATeam]

3 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

Bingo! Just answered your own question. 

If we suffer a downfall it will be our inability to make QBs uncomfortable. Our pass rush is pretty sad. Even the most mediocre of QBs can convert against our front 4. Our offense can play with anyone, even with our average run game.

We have the top pass defense in the league.

[billsbackto81]

7 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

We have the top pass defense in the league.

Yes, our secondary is stellar. But even the best coverage will only hold so long if the guys up front don't generate pressure. As awesome as our offense was Sunday it was still a 5 point game late in the 4th and a dropped INT from being worse.

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, billsbackto81 said:

Yes, our secondary is stellar. But even the best coverage will only hold so long if the guys up front don't generate pressure. As awesome as our offense was Sunday it was still a 5 point game late in the 4th and a dropped INT from being worse.

Because of our poor pass rush?  Or was it because Harris went for 100 yards and 3 TD's?

[GoBills808]

8 hours ago, NewEra said:

It helps that we played:  Tua, Brissett, mac Jones x2, some jets qb, Davis Mills, Heineke, wentz, cam, Trevor Lawrence, simian and Big Ben.  Minus Brady, Mahomes and Tannehill, we’ve played all lower tier qbs.  
 

if our schedule was tougher I don’t think we’d have the same stats defensively.  I feel that our D is def top 5 in the league regardless of opponents.  In a season where there aren’t any dominant defenses, we might be the best, but I think Dallas (now that they are healthy) and Tampa (if they are healthy) are the best due to their ability to generate tremendous pressure when rushing 4.  If we had Tre’Davious, I might agree that we are the best.  Minus him, Idk.  Still need to see how our corners matchup vs some more high powered offenses.  They played a great half vs Brady.  They also played a poor half vs Brady.  Which half more closely resembles what they actually are?  

Wentz isn't a lower tier QB though, Brady did well for sure but the defense held Mahomes to 30pts below his average rating and Tannehill to 15pts below his. Mac Jones was being touted as the next big thing until they completely dominated him minus White. They are a top unit...I don't think it's arguable tbh

[NewEra]

18 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Wentz isn't a lower tier QB though, Brady did well for sure but the defense held Mahomes to 30pts below his average rating and Tannehill to 15pts below his. Mac Jones was being touted as the next big thing until they completely dominated him minus White. They are a top unit...I don't think it's arguable tbh

Last year Carson wentz was the worst qb in the league.  When I say lower tier, I mean, lower half of the league.  If you think he’s the 15th or 16th best qb in the league, I might agree.  He has not been good.  He just hasn’t been bad and he’s playing behind the best OL and run game in the league.  Regardless…..he’s not beating anyone by himself and only threw for 100 yards vs us.  
 

yes, our d played great vs Mahomes and played one great half vs Brady (and one terrible half).  Tannehill ripped us apart on 3rd downs.  We couldn’t get him off the field.  Mac Jones was being touted BY SOME as the next best thing.  Certainly not me.  Like wentz, he gets carried by a solid run game and defense.  
 

yes, they are A top unit…..I said that.  But everyone has to argue when good points are brought up.  All I said differently than you was that we played a lot of trash QBs this year.  You don’t agree?

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Last year Carson wentz was the worst qb in the league.  When I say lower tier, I mean, lower half of the league.  If you think he’s the 15th or 16th best qb in the league, I might agree.  He has not been good.  He just hasn’t been bad and he’s playing behind the best OL and run game in the league.  Regardless…..he’s not beating anyone by himself and only threw for 100 yards vs us.  
 

yes, our d played great vs Mahomes and played one great half vs Brady (and one terrible half).  Tannehill ripped us apart on 3rd downs.  We couldn’t get him off the field.  Mac Jones was being touted BY SOME as the next best thing.  Certainly not me.  Like wentz, he gets carried by a solid run game and defense.  
 

yes, they are A top unit…..I said that.  But everyone has to argue when good points are brought up.  All I said differently than you was that we played a lot of trash QBs this year.  You don’t agree?

Sure I agree, but when I say they are the best defense in the league and you bring up the QBs they've faced, the implication is that the quality and/or amount of bad QBs is outsize relative to what other top defenses might otherwise reasonably face. That's largely what I am arguing against, both your characterization of Wentz as lower tier (he isn't this year, clearly) and that the defense is a product of the competition beyond what other defenses you brought up...I mean, you've seen the Bucs schedule of quarterbacks they've faced, right? Is it that much more impressive than the Bills? Ryan 2x, Mac Jones like us, Tua like us, Hurts, Fields, Simien like us, Heinicke like us, Daniel Jones, Darnold, Wentz like us...

[Buffalo716]

15 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Last year Carson wentz was the worst qb in the league.  When I say lower tier, I mean, lower half of the league.  If you think he’s the 15th or 16th best qb in the league, I might agree.  He has not been good.  He just hasn’t been bad and he’s playing behind the best OL and run game in the league.  Regardless…..he’s not beating anyone by himself and only threw for 100 yards vs us.  
 

yes, our d played great vs Mahomes and played one great half vs Brady (and one terrible half).  Tannehill ripped us apart on 3rd downs.  We couldn’t get him off the field.  Mac Jones was being touted BY SOME as the next best thing.  Certainly not me.  Like wentz, he gets carried by a solid run game and defense.  
 

yes, they are A top unit…..I said that.  But everyone has to argue when good points are brought up.  All I said differently than you was that we played a lot of trash QBs this year.  You don’t agree?

I honestly think Wentz is pretty trash ... He is surrounded by talent and hogs upfront and looks pedestrian 

 

I think he's one of the worst starters in the league

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Sure I agree, but when I say they are the best defense in the league and you bring up the QBs they've faced, the implication is that the quality and/or amount of bad QBs is outsize relative to what other top defenses might otherwise reasonably face. That's largely what I am arguing against, both your characterization of Wentz as lower tier (he isn't this year, clearly) and that the defense is a product of the competition beyond what other defenses you brought up...I mean, you've seen the Bucs schedule of quarterbacks they've faced, right? Is it that much more impressive than the Bills? Ryan 2x, Mac Jones like us, Tua like us, Hurts, Fields, Simien like us, Heinicke like us, Daniel Jones, Darnold, Wentz like us...

The implication is that we played a lot of bad QBs.  I stated that we are a top unit.  People just get all bent when something negative is said.

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

I honestly think Wentz is pretty trash ... He is surrounded by talent and hogs upfront and looks pedestrian 

 

I think he's one of the worst starters in the league

Tell the dude saying he’s not a lower tier starter

[Buffalo716]

Just now, NewEra said:

The implication is that we played a lot of bad QBs.  I stated that we are a top unit.  People just get all bent when something negative is said.

Tell the dude saying he’s not a lower tier starter

I was agreeing with you 👍 

 

His stats do not measure up to the eye test.. I haven't been impressed watching him in a few years

[NewEra]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

I was agreeing with you 👍 

 

His stats do not measure up to the eye test.. I haven't been impressed watching him in a few years

Lol, i know you were. 👍🏻  I was just telling you that you should quote @GoBills808 and tell him your thoughts on wentz.  Dude said he’s not lower tier

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

The implication is that we played a lot of bad QBs.  I stated that we are a top unit.  People just get all bent when something negative is said.

 

I'm not bent. I said they were the best defense in the league. You said they played a bunch of bad QBs and that Tampa was better. I showed you a bunch of the QBs Tampa has played and they're not significantly better, and might actually be worse, than the ones the Bills have faced.

[NewEra]

10 hours ago, NewEra said:

It helps that we played:  Tua, Brissett, mac Jones x2, some jets qb, Davis Mills, Heineke, wentz, cam, Trevor Lawrence, simian and Big Ben.  Minus Brady, Mahomes and Tannehill, we’ve played all lower tier qbs.  
 

if our schedule was tougher I don’t think we’d have the same stats defensively.  I feel that our D is def top 5 in the league regardless of opponents.  In a season where there aren’t any dominant defenses, we might be the best, but I think Dallas (now that they are healthy) and Tampa (if they are healthy) are the best due to their ability to generate tremendous pressure when rushing 4.  If we had Tre’Davious, I might agree that we are the best.  Minus him, Idk.  Still need to see how our corners matchup vs some more high powered offenses.  They played a great half vs Brady.  They also played a poor half vs Brady.  Which half more closely resembles what they actually are?  

 

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

I'm not bent. I said they were the best defense in the league. You said they played a bunch of bad QBs and that Tampa was better. I showed you a bunch of the QBs Tampa has played and they're not significantly better, and might actually be worse, than the ones the Bills have faced.

I said a lot more than just that.  It’s not news that the teams with the most dominant pass rushes are usually deemed the best defense.  The Bucs D was a huge part of them winning a Super Bowl….just last season.  They’ve actually achieved something.  They have something to show for being a great D.
 

Yes…the tampa D might be worse.  They also might be better come the playoffs. I’m not saying anything is definitive. I’m just giving my opinion of what I’ve seen and what I think of the QBs that we’ve faced this year. Then you decided to tell me that Carson wentz isn’t a lower tier QB and that mac Jones is being touted as the next big thing. Sure looked like you were getting defensive to me.

[billsbackto81]

3 hours ago, SWATeam said:

Because of our poor pass rush?  Or was it because Harris went for 100 yards and 3 TD's?

True, can't argue that point. But in the 4th quarter on 3rd and long and 4th down situations when they had opportunities to "pin their ears back" and attack the Pats just kept converting. Our D front has been underwhelming all year. 

[Momma Pecoraro]

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The Bills are a top defense, not really a dominating one…. They are still missing that great pass rusher. 

A big effective dt who likes football too.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Tannehill has kind’ve ***** on the Bills defense two years in a row….. absolutely destroyed them with PA passes. The Bills are a top defense, not really a dominating one…. They are still missing that great pass rusher. 

 

This is correct. The reality though is there are no dominating defenses in the modern NFL. The league is setup to prevent dominating defenses. The last one I think you can genuinely call dominant was Seattle and their hey day is was 2013-2015. That is some 6 years ago now. 

 

Have the Bills played some softer QBs this year? Yea. But that is the NFL schedule every year, it isn't balanced. The Bills defense is not a statistical fluke. They are top 3 in almost every major category. The people that have a problem with them and throw Tampa (of all teams) out there ate the people who just stylistically want something more pass rush dependant. 

 

I agree the Bills still lack a truly dominant player in the front 7, but their defense is stellar by moden standards. This will be a third top 3 finish in 4 years. 

[Matt_In_NH]

I know this is about All Pro but after reading the post and watching what the pro bowl has become, I am of the opinion the Pro Bowl should be done by some kind of independent analysis that grades players on each play and ranks them.  There would still be beef's but you can make a much better roster than what we have today.  

 

Make the fan votes some other thing altogether.  Even the player component is flawed, NFL players dont necessarily know what is going on with other players and will be swayed by the experience they had against that guy (or the guy on their team) rather than a comprehensive analysis.

 

oh yeah, and you get no credit for being an alternate who plays in the game.

[Billsfan1972]

19 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

They force teams to execute at a high level for 10+ plays to score most drives and not many teams can do it.

But when you need that big stop, it just seems like a crapshoot.  

 

Like a # teams (Dallas being the most obvious, but GB, LA and others too), they can look real good vs. bad teams, but against good offenses, it is a different story.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Billsfan1972

[John from Riverside]

The lack of Joshel and being in these end of year awards is absolutely baffling