Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[ChiGoose]

4 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

So the fate of the world and human civilizations is dependent on the outcome of the conflict in Ukraine?  A place on Earth no American cared about until a few years ago.  Thst's one possibility but I could generate lots of other potential outcomes most of which are more plausible.

I recall previous experts issuing similiiar dire warnings in the Vietnam era. 

 

 

Not necessarily, but it's a very slippery slope to global chaos and potential war should Ukraine fall. The idea that Russia would just stop with Ukraine and other anti-Western powers would take no lesson from their success is just wish-casting and requires ignoring history and what we're currently seeing.

 

Authoritarian powers are looking to test the commitment of the West to democracy and freedom. It's why China has been pushing the belt and road initiative, and it's why Russia has been interfering in elections in western countries. There's also a populist isolationist movement rising in America that would have us turn away from the world. ~80 years after we built a global ecosystem with us at the top, many in America would rather cede that responsibility to China or whoever else would grab it.

 

Should we abandon Ukraine to Russia, it'll give the green light to whoever wishes to challenge us for global hegemony. Defending Ukraine requires us to risk none of our soldiers and just a fraction of our annual military budget to essentially destroy Russia's ability to make war. If we can't even rise to that, why would China think we'd intervene should it invade Taiwan? Would North Korea really believe that we would defend South Korea? Foreign adversaries are watching for weaknesses in our commitments and we seem happy to show them what they want to see.

[Coffeesforclosers]

8 hours ago, aristocrat said:

none.but that’s not what I said. 

 

You've expressed a bunch of opinions, and you agree with me on the one point i wanted to discuss. 

 

So what do you want to talk about next? 

Edited February 18 by Coffeesforclosers

[John from Riverside]

8 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

So the fate of the world and human civilizations is dependent on the outcome of the conflict in Ukraine?  A place on Earth no American cared about until a few years ago.  Thst's one possibility but I could generate lots of other potential outcomes most of which are more plausible.

I recall previous experts issuing similiiar dire warnings in the Vietnam era. 

 

I am not understanding your comment
 

Just because your Carmen US citizen didn’t know anything about Ukraine doesn’t mean the United States didn’t we have been supporting them for years against Russia

 

It’s a focal point due to its proximity to nato borders

 

I think Tucker Carlson is an idiot, but one thing that that interview with Putin did do was allow Putin to speak out on exactly what he felt about the countries that Ukraine borders on this will not stop with Ukraine if they win

[BillsFanNC]

 

 

[Tiberius]

Great article on how Silicon Valley has turned 180 degrees away from its pacifist stance and is fully committed in human capital, finance and organization to create the tools of the trade to fight authoritarian governments. Sam Houston said before the Civil War that the northern people are not a hot tempered people, but when angered they move with the steady momentum and perseverance of a mighty avalanche. Yes
 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/02/17/silicon-valley-military-tech-defense-contractors/

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

16 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I am not understanding your comment
 

Just because your Carmen US citizen didn’t know anything about Ukraine doesn’t mean the United States didn’t we have been supporting them for years against Russia

 

It’s a focal point due to its proximity to nato borders

 

I think Tucker Carlson is an idiot, but one thing that that interview with Putin did do was allow Putin to speak out on exactly what he felt about the countries that Ukraine borders on this will not stop with Ukraine if they win

I'm saying the outcome of the conflict in Ukraine is not going to alter the course of world events and history.  Your life, my life will not be impacted.  History will see it as an insignificant regional conflict like the 100's of other regional conflicts nobody remembers 100 years from now. 

 

And as Vietnam didn't lead to the domino theory every war hawk of the era peddled as an excuse to send some 1/2 million troops and 50K+ American servicemen to their deaths this isn't going to lead to some Russian invasion of Europe.  For the life of me I can't determine just exactly what anyone thinks those European countries have that Putin would want?  Resources?  More land?  Both claims are dubious.  Even in the remote event that Ukraine prevails it will be what's referred to as a "Pyrrhic Victory".     

[Doc]

9 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I'm saying the outcome of the conflict in Ukraine is not going to alter the course of world events and history.  Your life, my life will not be impacted.  History will see it as an insignificant regional conflict like the 100's of other regional conflicts nobody remembers 100 years from now. 

 

And as Vietnam didn't lead to the domino theory every war hawk of the era peddled as an excuse to send some 1/2 million troops and 50K+ American servicemen to their deaths this isn't going to lead to some Russian invasion of Europe.  For the life of me I can't determine just exactly what anyone thinks those European countries have that Putin would want?  Resources?  More land?  Both claims are dubious.  Even in the remote event that Ukraine prevails it will be what's referred to as a "Pyrrhic Victory".     

 

Yeah but this time will be different.  Once Russia conquers Ukraine, the rest of the World is next!

[John from Riverside]

14 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I'm saying the outcome of the conflict in Ukraine is not going to alter the course of world events and history.  Your life, my life will not be impacted.  History will see it as an insignificant regional conflict like the 100's of other regional conflicts nobody remembers 100 years from now. 

 

And as Vietnam didn't lead to the domino theory every war hawk of the era peddled as an excuse to send some 1/2 million troops and 50K+ American servicemen to their deaths this isn't going to lead to some Russian invasion of Europe.  For the life of me I can't determine just exactly what anyone thinks those European countries have that Putin would want?  Resources?  More land?  Both claims are dubious.  Even in the remote event that Ukraine prevails it will be what's referred to as a "Pyrrhic Victory".     

You obviously have not been listening to Putin talk

 

Just keep your head stuck in the sand that’s what you’re good at

[All_Pro_Bills]

26 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

You obviously have not been listening to Putin talk

 

Just keep your head stuck in the sand that’s what you’re good at

I'm curious how all the experts on Russia and the inner workings of Putin's mind that are suddenly appearing everywhere, that believe the get the band back together theory can explain exactly how they're going to pull off that feat?  And what are they waiting for?  And what do they want? 

 

Maybe its the NATO officials that need to perpetuate their reason for existing (there's only one!) and the usual suspects lathered up at any prospect of engaging any war they can find while experiencing the constant humiliating defeats at the hands of peasants and goat herders.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, All_Pro_Bills said:

I'm curious how all the experts on Russia and the inner workings of Putin's mind that are suddenly appearing everywhere, that believe the get the band back together theory can explain exactly how they're going to pull off that feat?  And what are they waiting for?  And what do they want? 

 

Maybe its the NATO officials that need to perpetuate their reason for existing (there's only one!) and the usual suspects lathered up at any prospect of engaging any war they can find while experiencing the constant humiliating defeats at the hands of peasants and goat herders.

Putin Loves you don’t change a thing

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I'm curious how all the experts on Russia and the inner workings of Putin's mind that are suddenly appearing everywhere, that believe the get the band back together theory can explain exactly how they're going to pull off that feat?  And what are they waiting for?  And what do they want? 

 

Maybe its the NATO officials that need to perpetuate their reason for existing (there's only one!) and the usual suspects lathered up at any prospect of engaging any war they can find while experiencing the constant humiliating defeats at the hands of peasants and goat herders.

 

They don't know and can't answer that.  But they're sure it's going to happen.  Just like Trump becoming a dictator this time around.  

 

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

15 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Putin Loves you don’t change a thing

How old are u? Seriously 

[BillStime]

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

24 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

 

Here's what annoys me.  These guys look like able bodied young men.  If they're so hot for the war why don't they get their asses to the front?  I mean, the fate of the entire world hangs on the outcome of this conflict.  Right?  What more noble cause that this?    

[BillStime]

10 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Here's what annoys me.  These guys look like able bodied young men.  If they're so hot for the war why don't they get their asses to the front?  I mean, the fate of the entire world hangs on the outcome of this conflict.  Right?  What more noble cause that this?    

 

So, THAT's what annoys you. Not Putin invading a sovereign country.

 

Got it.

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 minute ago, BillStime said:

 

So, THAT's what annoys you. Not Putin invading a sovereign country.

 

Got it.

 

 

Yah, that's what annoys me.  All these candy ass sissies urging on the war that can take it into their own hands and do some of the fighting.  Like these NATO guys who are saying exactly what they're expected to say.  Why don't you go too? 

[BillStime]

1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Yah, that's what annoys me.  All these candy ass sissies urging on the war that can take it into their own hands and do some of the fighting.  Like these NATO guys who are saying exactly what they're expected to say.  Why don't you go too? 

 

My tax dollars represent me.

 

Why don't you consider joining Putin's army?

 

 

[US Egg]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

They don't know and can't answer that.  But they're sure it's going to happen.  Just like Trump becoming a dictator this time around.  

 

That, and start a war with…..well, Joe took care of that. 

Edited February 19 by US Egg

[Joe Ferguson forever]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

 

Just keep your head stuck in the sand that’s what you’re good at

his head is stuck up putin's arse.  He's a good little comrade.

22 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

There's also a populist isolationist movement rising in America that would have us turn away from the world. ~80 years after we built a global ecosystem with us at the top, many in America would rather cede that responsibility to China or whoever else would grab it.

MAGA's don't care.  The system as it is now configured isn't working for them.  It's all about me, myself and I to them.  They don't see it getting worse for them when another country takes our place as the leading superpower.  Their handlers tell them it'll be fine.  And they're not smart enough to see global implications.  meanwhile the MAGA's here continue to cheer for economic disaster.  As if it won't hurt them more than most.

 

the grass is always greener on the other side?

"As of June 2023, the average annual salary in Russia is around 1,240,000 RUB, which is roughly USD 14,771."

Edited February 19 by Joe Ferguson forever

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

8 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

his head is stuck up putin's arse.  He's a good little comrade.

MAGA's don't care.  The system as it is now configured isn't working for them.  It's all about me, myself and I to them.  They don't see it getting worse for them when another country takes our place as the leading superpower.  Their handlers tell them it'll be fine.  And they're not smart enough to see global implications.  meanwhile the MAGA's here continue to cheer for economic disaster.  As if it won't hurt them more than most.

You should lay off the sauce.