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Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦


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1 hour ago, JDHillFan said:

Putin is insane. Doesn’t he realize the effects of the crippling sanctions? 

 

Russia's economy is a split picture. On the one hand, theyre a huge raw material exporter, and we're in the middle of a huge commodity/energy boom.

 

On the other hand, their manufacturing sector, specifically for motor vehicles, appliances and infrastructure is collapsing. While the Duma is passing laws forcing companies to service military vehicles for free, and forcing workers to work extra hours with no pay. Plus inflation. Plus the dramatic decrease in electronics, namely chips and processors they have access to.

 

You'd rather not be Russia right now, all things considered. Its not like we need anything they provide either. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Russia's economy is a split picture. On the one hand, theyre a huge raw material exporter, and we're in the middle of a huge commodity/energy boom.

 

On the other hand, their manufacturing sector, specifically for motor vehicles, appliances and infrastructure is collapsing. While the Duma is passing laws forcing companies to service military vehicles for free, and forcing workers to work extra hours with no pay. Plus inflation. Plus the dramatic decrease in electronics, namely chips and processors they have access to.

 

You'd rather not be Russia right now, all things considered. Its not like we need anything they provide either. 

 

 

A problem is sanctions have created conditions for our "allies" in Europe that are far worse.  Add in pushing a "green" agenda that is inappropriate for the immediate challenges of the present the sanctions have magnified and you've got a lot of disagreement.  Although they're being fed the same "this is the price for democracy" line we are by Biden, my expectation is they crap out from bad political, social, and economic conditions before Russia.   

 

I think the fundamental problem faced by Western governments is the concerns and issues of the large majority of their citizens and those of their representatives in government are completely out of alignment.  And governments are saying tough horse crap just deal with it and the people are saying FU to the government and becoming increasing uncooperative and are ready and willing to boot their asses out of office in the next election cycle.    

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3 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

A problem is sanctions have created conditions for our "allies" in Europe that are far worse.  Add in pushing a "green" agenda that is inappropriate for the immediate challenges of the present the sanctions have magnified and you've got a lot of disagreement.  Although they're being fed the same "this is the price for democracy" line we are by Biden, my expectation is they crap out from bad political, social, and economic conditions before Russia.   

 

I think the fundamental problem faced by Western governments is the concerns and issues of the large majority of their citizens and those of their representatives in government are completely out of alignment.  And governments are saying tough horse crap just deal with it and the people are saying FU to the government and becoming increasing uncooperative and are ready and willing to boot their asses out of office in the next election cycle.    

 

If we took nuclear power seriously, we wouldn't be in this mess, but thats just me bitching. 

 

I cant speak for other people. But so far we've spent $7.3 billion to help Ukraine. That cash, which is about 1/2 of the sticker price of the USS Gerald R. Ford, has helped kill 30,000 Russian soldiers, destroy or capture 1300 tanks and APCs, sink a guided missile cruiser, and shoot down hundreds of jets and helicopters. Its the best RoI on defense spending we've had in decades. And all to help beat up a country that said two days ago they want to invade Alaska.  Aka somebody who's got it coming.  Without the loss of 1 single American soldier, ship, tank or plane. If Joe Biden can't sell that, he deserves to be tossed out. 

 

Edited by Coffeesforclosers
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On 7/8/2022 at 4:47 PM, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

If we took nuclear power seriously, we wouldn't be in this mess, but thats just me bitching. 

 

I cant speak for other people. But so far we've spent $7.3 billion to help Ukraine. That cash, which is about 1/2 of the sticker price of the USS Gerald R. Ford, has helped kill 30,000 Russian soldiers, destroy or capture 1300 tanks and APCs, sink a guided missile cruiser, and shoot down hundreds of jets and helicopters. Its the best RoI on defense spending we've had in decades. And all to help beat up a country that said two days ago they want to invade Alaska.  Aka somebody who's got it coming.  Without the loss of 1 single American soldier, ship, tank or plane. If Joe Biden can't sell that, he deserves to be tossed out. 

 

If the goal is weakening Russia through a proxy war in Ukraine, then mission accomplished to this point for the American Empire.  But for American the country, not so much.  That $7.3B is just a small part of the cost.  What about the lives of Ukrainian civilians and soldiers that have been lost?  What's the dollar value of that? Destruction of cities and towns.  Refugees and people being displaced from their homes.  While the dead can't speak, I expect the living would have a different perspective on money well spent.  Beyond the political leadership and powerful oligarchs, the majority of Ukrainians facing this experience firsthand might disagree with your assessment of money well spent.   

 

What about the cost to Americans?  If you buy Biden's alibi of Putin's inflation its costing US consumers about $2 a gallon more for gas which amounts to some $5.3 Billion a week.  $21B a month.  That doesn't even include the cost of diesel for the transportation industry, truck, rail, ship.  The strategic petroleum reserve getting drained with no impact on prices.  And costs at the grocery store.  Cheerful monthly job numbers aside, rising weekly unemployment claim numbers, and surely layoffs to come soon,     

 

What about the rest of the world?  Huge increases in food prices, food shortages, riots, destabilizing governments.  Higher costs for fertilizers and agricultural.  Disruptions to world trade and commerce.  Europe on the brink of economic disaster.  Germany about to get its gas supply shut off.  If this thing drags on the prospects of millions freezing and starving to death this winter around the world. 

 

And on the other side.  Russia receiving more than ever before for its oil and gas exports.  With lots of countries around the world looking to ditch the US dollar after seeing assets seized and frozen upon decree.  Just 1/4 of the world's countries supporting sanctions.  Alternate trade and settlement systems being used to circumvent the use of the US dollar.  Why is that important?  Because the power and privilege provided by the US dollar reserve system is the fundamental and key to America's power. 

Edited by All_Pro_Bills
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Iran to send hundreds of drones to Russia for use in Ukraine, U.S. says
White House reveals Tehran’s plan to supply hardware, training for Russian forces

 

The planned delivery of unmanned aerial vehicles, or UAVs, disclosed by national security adviser Jake Sullivan at a White House briefing, could provide a significant boost to Moscow’s efforts to find and destroy Western-supplied artillery and other weapons systems that have slowed the advance of Russian troops in recent weeks.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/07/11/iran-drones-russia-ukraine/

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Why hasn’t the Russian economy tanked yet? Putin has been preparing for this moment for years

 

 

Economists and world leaders believed that combined, the economic impact on the country relegate it to an economic pariah, ensure losses in the billions and perhaps even lead to a wholesale collapse of the country's financial system.

 

But that’s not quite how it worked out. 

Across Russia, signs have emerged that the country is adapting to global economic isolation better than most people anticipated. 

 

Russian businessmen have gobbled up western companies’ operations, like Siberian billionaire Alexander Govor’s purchase of McDonald’s 850 outlets across the country. Russian property developers, like MR Group are opening new shopping malls—simply sans western brands like H&M, Nike and Starbucks. 

 

https://fortune.com/2022/07/16/why-hasnt-the-russian-economy-collapsed-putin-oil-sanctions-ruble-china/

 

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