Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Tiberius]

Wow!! Hope this is true 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

Ukraine: Russia pulls back forces from Snake Island. 

“Russia claimed the move was a ‘goodwill gesture’ to allow the export of Ukrainian agricultural products. Meanwhile, fighting intensified in Lysychansk, in the Donbas region.”

 

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-russia-pulls-back-forces-from-snake-island-live-updates/a-62309716

 

 

 

 

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 29.

 

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-29

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

 

[Coffeesforclosers]

Honestly, is there anybody posting in this thread that thinks Russia deserves to win?

 

And if there isn't, what the ***** are we arguing about?

 

Hell, "What the ***** are we arguing about?" might be the single most important question in modern America. Right after "Why the ***** are we even arguing?" 

[JDHillFan]

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by JDHillFan
Additional info added

[All_Pro_Bills]

21 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

Honestly, is there anybody posting in this thread that thinks Russia deserves to win?

 

And if there isn't, what the ***** are we arguing about?

 

Hell, "What the ***** are we arguing about?" might be the single most important question in modern America. Right after "Why the ***** are we even arguing?" 

Hey! That's a great yet simple question.  I'll go out on a limb here and say there's not a single person on this topic rooting for Russia to win.  Everybody is on the side of the Ukrainians. 

 

But as is customary, there is contention nonetheless.

 

My short list of arguments here are:

 

1. Disagreements on how involved the US should be.  From doing nothing, sending weapons & support somewhere in the middle, to all out nuclear exchange with Russia if necessary to save "democracy".

2. What's the US interest here?  Does it matter whether Ukraine is aligned with the US, Russia, or independent.

3. The characterization of Ukraine as a fledgling democracy on one end to the other end where its a corrupt oligopoly.

4. The ever present Trump connection

    a. Can any or all of this be blamed on Trump.

    b. The never ending Russia collusion connection hoax or reality debate. 

    c. Making excuses and deflecting any responsibility for consequences from Biden.

  

 

 

[Tiberius]

 

[B-Man]

 

 

Bad news (if true)

 

UKRAINE WAR: Ukraine’s military withdraws from Lysychansk as Russia claims control — as it happened.

 

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has confirmed that his forces have withdrawn from Lysychansk, the last holdout city in the eastern Luhansk region.

In his nightly video address, he vowed to restore control over the area thanks to the prospect of new, improved weaponry.

 

“If the commanders of our army withdraw people from certain points at the front, where the enemy has the greatest advantage in fire power, and this also applies to Lysychansk, it means only one thing,” Zelenskyy said.

 

“That we will return thanks to our tactics, thanks to the increase in the supply of modern weapons.”

 

Moscow said earlier Sunday that Luhansk was now under Russian control after the seizure of Lysychansk.

 

Russian forces can now concentrate on the neighboring Donetsk region, where Kyiv still controls swathes of territory.

 

Losing Lysychansk is a much bigger deal than forcing the Russians off Snake Island last week.

 

 

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraines-military-withdraws-from-lysychansk-as-russia-claims-control-as-it-happened/a-62340445

 

 

[Tiberius]

 

[Tiberius]

 

[JDHillFan]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

 

Putin is insane. Doesn’t he realize the effects of the crippling sanctions? 

[Coffeesforclosers]

1 hour ago, JDHillFan said:

Putin is insane. Doesn’t he realize the effects of the crippling sanctions? 

 

Russia's economy is a split picture. On the one hand, theyre a huge raw material exporter, and we're in the middle of a huge commodity/energy boom.

 

On the other hand, their manufacturing sector, specifically for motor vehicles, appliances and infrastructure is collapsing. While the Duma is passing laws forcing companies to service military vehicles for free, and forcing workers to work extra hours with no pay. Plus inflation. Plus the dramatic decrease in electronics, namely chips and processors they have access to.

 

You'd rather not be Russia right now, all things considered. Its not like we need anything they provide either. 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

4 hours ago, Tiberius said:

 

Say what you want…but ya have to admit that’s a really impressive room. I doubt they watch TV in there…or are allowed to eat off TV trays. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Russia's economy is a split picture. On the one hand, theyre a huge raw material exporter, and we're in the middle of a huge commodity/energy boom.

 

On the other hand, their manufacturing sector, specifically for motor vehicles, appliances and infrastructure is collapsing. While the Duma is passing laws forcing companies to service military vehicles for free, and forcing workers to work extra hours with no pay. Plus inflation. Plus the dramatic decrease in electronics, namely chips and processors they have access to.

 

You'd rather not be Russia right now, all things considered. Its not like we need anything they provide either. 

 

 

A problem is sanctions have created conditions for our "allies" in Europe that are far worse.  Add in pushing a "green" agenda that is inappropriate for the immediate challenges of the present the sanctions have magnified and you've got a lot of disagreement.  Although they're being fed the same "this is the price for democracy" line we are by Biden, my expectation is they crap out from bad political, social, and economic conditions before Russia.   

 

I think the fundamental problem faced by Western governments is the concerns and issues of the large majority of their citizens and those of their representatives in government are completely out of alignment.  And governments are saying tough horse crap just deal with it and the people are saying FU to the government and becoming increasing uncooperative and are ready and willing to boot their asses out of office in the next election cycle.    

[Coffeesforclosers]

3 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

A problem is sanctions have created conditions for our "allies" in Europe that are far worse.  Add in pushing a "green" agenda that is inappropriate for the immediate challenges of the present the sanctions have magnified and you've got a lot of disagreement.  Although they're being fed the same "this is the price for democracy" line we are by Biden, my expectation is they crap out from bad political, social, and economic conditions before Russia.   

 

I think the fundamental problem faced by Western governments is the concerns and issues of the large majority of their citizens and those of their representatives in government are completely out of alignment.  And governments are saying tough horse crap just deal with it and the people are saying FU to the government and becoming increasing uncooperative and are ready and willing to boot their asses out of office in the next election cycle.    

 

If we took nuclear power seriously, we wouldn't be in this mess, but thats just me bitching. 

 

I cant speak for other people. But so far we've spent $7.3 billion to help Ukraine. That cash, which is about 1/2 of the sticker price of the USS Gerald R. Ford, has helped kill 30,000 Russian soldiers, destroy or capture 1300 tanks and APCs, sink a guided missile cruiser, and shoot down hundreds of jets and helicopters. Its the best RoI on defense spending we've had in decades. And all to help beat up a country that said two days ago they want to invade Alaska.  Aka somebody who's got it coming.  Without the loss of 1 single American soldier, ship, tank or plane. If Joe Biden can't sell that, he deserves to be tossed out. 

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Coffeesforclosers

[All_Pro_Bills]

On 7/8/2022 at 4:47 PM, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

If we took nuclear power seriously, we wouldn't be in this mess, but thats just me bitching. 

 

I cant speak for other people. But so far we've spent $7.3 billion to help Ukraine. That cash, which is about 1/2 of the sticker price of the USS Gerald R. Ford, has helped kill 30,000 Russian soldiers, destroy or capture 1300 tanks and APCs, sink a guided missile cruiser, and shoot down hundreds of jets and helicopters. Its the best RoI on defense spending we've had in decades. And all to help beat up a country that said two days ago they want to invade Alaska.  Aka somebody who's got it coming.  Without the loss of 1 single American soldier, ship, tank or plane. If Joe Biden can't sell that, he deserves to be tossed out. 

 

If the goal is weakening Russia through a proxy war in Ukraine, then mission accomplished to this point for the American Empire.  But for American the country, not so much.  That $7.3B is just a small part of the cost.  What about the lives of Ukrainian civilians and soldiers that have been lost?  What's the dollar value of that? Destruction of cities and towns.  Refugees and people being displaced from their homes.  While the dead can't speak, I expect the living would have a different perspective on money well spent.  Beyond the political leadership and powerful oligarchs, the majority of Ukrainians facing this experience firsthand might disagree with your assessment of money well spent.   

 

What about the cost to Americans?  If you buy Biden's alibi of Putin's inflation its costing US consumers about $2 a gallon more for gas which amounts to some $5.3 Billion a week.  $21B a month.  That doesn't even include the cost of diesel for the transportation industry, truck, rail, ship.  The strategic petroleum reserve getting drained with no impact on prices.  And costs at the grocery store.  Cheerful monthly job numbers aside, rising weekly unemployment claim numbers, and surely layoffs to come soon,     

 

What about the rest of the world?  Huge increases in food prices, food shortages, riots, destabilizing governments.  Higher costs for fertilizers and agricultural.  Disruptions to world trade and commerce.  Europe on the brink of economic disaster.  Germany about to get its gas supply shut off.  If this thing drags on the prospects of millions freezing and starving to death this winter around the world. 

 

And on the other side.  Russia receiving more than ever before for its oil and gas exports.  With lots of countries around the world looking to ditch the US dollar after seeing assets seized and frozen upon decree.  Just 1/4 of the world's countries supporting sanctions.  Alternate trade and settlement systems being used to circumvent the use of the US dollar.  Why is that important?  Because the power and privilege provided by the US dollar reserve system is the fundamental and key to America's power. 

Edited July 10, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills

[Doc]

On 7/8/2022 at 7:44 AM, Tiberius said:

 

 

Good one, Vlad. 

[B-Man]

 

 

The U.S. Has Now Spent More in Ukraine Than in the First 5 Years in Afghanistan

 

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2022/07/10/the-u-s-has-now-spent-more-in-ukraine-than-in-the-first-5-years-in-afghanistan-n1611747

 

 

 

 

[ALF]

Fallout NYC? New York City releases PSA on what to do in nuclear attack or incident

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-psa-nuclear-attack-fallout

 

Well just in case Putin

[SoCal Deek]

Are we done with Biden’s “small incursion” yet? It’s really hard to tell after five months.