ChiGoose Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 16 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Give it up. This is childish nonsense Asking a very simple question to someone who seems to think it’s ok for Ukraine to lose. What happens if Ukraine loses? What’s your ideal outcome here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Ron Burgundy Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 11 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Another thing I find particularly absurd is that Putin's goal is to re-capture the former Soviet block States. They've demonstrated the ability to re-take nothing. Its pure fantasy. Surely, he must know that along with every military analyst at the Pentagon knows it. You say this but this was much more of an unknown prior to Russia attacking Ukraine (yes we knew they were inept and corrupt but we're seeing a military circus). Many thought Russia was going to steamroll them. Putin certainly thought so. Also, do you think former Soviet states don't take Russia seriously? I hope not because that would be absurd. Despite Russia looking like a joke they all fear war will spread. Russia is big. They will keep spending lives as if they mean nothing. Other countries actually care about their people. Take the US out of the equation it's possible Ukraine has already fallen and Russia is eyeing the Baltics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 On 7/7/2023 at 8:25 AM, Jauronimo said: Foreign policy experts in the US have known and warned that Ukraine joining NATO was a red line for Russia for 20 plus years, from what I have read. This war was entirely predictable and yet here we are. I am sympathetic to the rights of a free nation to self determine their trade, military, and economic alliances but that is not how geo politics works. I guess there is always cold war style tit for tat and familiar narratives like take down the despot that we can use to support our own involvement in Ukraine but when has that ever worked out favorably? Aiding in toppling Putin's regime would be a feel good story for 5 minutes but there is no guarantee the successor regime is any better. In all likelihood the power vacuum and opportunism likely creates a less stable, more dangerous situation across the old soviet bloc and middle east. From a perspective of Western involvement what does victory look like and is it worth the cost? I believe in supporting Ukraine’s defense against invading n ation, but I don’t know that I want to see them join NATO Their politics is iffy as it is 3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: We won’t be sending troops. The Left has found their perfect war. No risk. Just put it on the credit card. Oh and put a Ukrainian flag on your Twitter feed. Done! Would you rather that we were sending in troops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 7 hours ago, reddogblitz said: I don't trust President Biden to not send troops. We'll see but I am skeptical at the claims of "no boots on the ground". The only path to US direct military involvement is if Russia does something that triggers a NATO response, and our participation would be part of a NATO action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 8 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: We won’t be sending troops. The Left has found their perfect war. No risk. Just put it on the credit card. Oh and put a Ukrainian flag on your Twitter feed. Done! The appeasement mouse is about, I see 8 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Asking a very simple question to someone who seems to think it’s ok for Ukraine to lose. What happens if Ukraine loses? What’s your ideal outcome here? He's just a gadfly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 9 hours ago, ChiGoose said: What do you think happens if Russia wins the war? If they take out the Ukrainian government and install their own puppet government? Then it becomes part of Russia like it used to be. What do you think will happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 6 hours ago, L Ron Burgundy said: You say this but this was much more of an unknown prior to Russia attacking Ukraine (yes we knew they were inept and corrupt but we're seeing a military circus). Many thought Russia was going to steamroll them. Putin certainly thought so. Also, do you think former Soviet states don't take Russia seriously? I hope not because that would be absurd. Despite Russia looking like a joke they all fear war will spread. Russia is big. They will keep spending lives as if they mean nothing. Other countries actually care about their people. Take the US out of the equation it's possible Ukraine has already fallen and Russia is eyeing the Baltics. Our friend @sherpa was pretty confident Russia's conventional force capability was inferior and they've performed more or less as expected. I have to believe the military and Russia analysts at the Pentagon, State dept, and Intelligence drew similar conclusions. But as is typical the publicly provided assessment strays from the confidential one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 28 minutes ago, Doc said: Then it becomes part of Russia like it used to be. What do you think will happen? Well for one, I think that be bad since they very much don’t want to be part of Russia. Maybe the US should go back to being part of the UK like we used to be. Do you think Russia stops with Ukraine if they win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 9 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Asking a very simple question to someone who seems to think it’s ok for Ukraine to lose. What happens if Ukraine loses? What’s your ideal outcome here? Goose…with all due respect it’s a dum question and you know it. War is supposed to be ugly and painful for everyone involved in it. That’s why the participants are generally quick to end it. Both the winner and loser. The biggest problem with this war is that it’s being funded by uninvolved spectators! I hope that helps a little. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 16 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Goose…with all due respect it’s a dum question and you know it. War is supposed to be ugly and painful for everyone involved in it. That’s why the participants are generally quick to end it. Both the winner and loser. The biggest problem with this war is that it’s being funded by uninvolved spectators! I hope that helps a little. I do not believe that asking what the impacts of the outcome of the war is a dumb question. It honestly seems incredibly dumb to not consider it. The biggest problem with this war is that a revanchist authoritarian state is trying to determine the fate of its neighbor by force against the will of the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: I do not believe that asking what the impacts of the outcome of the war is a dumb question. It honestly seems incredibly dumb to not consider it. The biggest problem with this war is that a revanchist authoritarian state is trying to determine the fate of its neighbor by force against the will of the people. Oh brother. Keep supplying weapons at no risk to yourself. Let’s just hope the US never gets into a war where some other countries just keep providing us with arms while our sons and daughters pay the price. This conflict needs to end! And it won’t end if the world keeps going about it this way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 Just now, SoCal Deek said: Oh brother. Keep supplying weapons at no risk to yourself. Let’s just hope the US never gets into a war where some other countries just keep providing us with arms while our sons and daughters pay the price. This conflict needs to end! And it won’t end if the world keeps going about it this way. Got it. So just go full on Neville Chamberlain and let a power hungry country eat up its neighbors while pretending everything will work out juuuuust fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T&C Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 Sabres get a mention. https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2023/07/09/nhl-great-ha-ek-demands-russians-openly-condemn-war-against-ukraine-or-be-banned-from-paris-olympics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 29 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Got it. So just go full on Neville Chamberlain and let a power hungry country eat up its neighbors while pretending everything will work out juuuuust fine. Actually I’d go the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 13 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Actually I’d go the other way. Which is what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66113460 Misinformation, disinformation, whatever you want to call it, it's happening. And a lot of people eat it up without taking even a few minutes to see if it all adds up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 1 hour ago, ChiGoose said: Well for one, I think that be bad since they very much don’t want to be part of Russia. Maybe the US should go back to being part of the UK like we used to be. Do you think Russia stops with Ukraine if they win? Who do you think they're going after next? Ukraine's giving them all they can handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Doc said: Who do you think they're going after next? Ukraine's giving them all they can handle. Ukraine is giving them all they can handle because the West is supplying Ukraine with the weapons it needs. If we stop supplying them like so many here want, that ends any chance of a Ukrainian offensive. The war either devolves into a many year grind or Russia’s numbers eventually prevail as Ukraine runs out of weapons. As to who’s next, look to any former Soviet Bloc countries that Putin might want to bring back into the fold. Russia already occupies parts of Georgia and Moldova. If they capture Ukraine, that puts them on the border with Transnistria. Edited July 9, 2023 by ChiGoose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 1 minute ago, ChiGoose said: Ukraine is giving them all they can handle because the West is supplying Ukraine with the weapons it needs. If we stop supplying them like so many here want, that ends any chance of a Ukrainian offensive. The war either devolves into a many year grind or Russia’s numbers eventually prevail as Ukraine runs out of weapons. As to who’s next, look to any former Soviet Bloc countries that Putin might want to bring back into the fold. Russia already occupies parts of Georgia and Moldova. If they capture Ukraine, that puts them on the border with Transnistria. They don't have the manpower or firepower to start another war. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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