Penalty Analysis: Bills vs Chiefs

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Have not found this elsewhere on the board

 

Especially interested in the Tre White pass interference call on Kelce.  Pretty big penalty because instead of 3rd and 5 at the 33, they had 1st and 10 at the 15 and went on to score.  In the clip shown, seems pretty clear Kelce knew he couldn't catch the ball so he grabbed White and flopped, pulling White with him.  No Devil like an Old Devil.

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2021/10/12/22721807/penalty-recap-buffalo-bills-at-kansas-city-is-a-mess

 

By the way, the author Skarekrow points out that the PF penalties on Clark and on Ed Oliver were both correct by rule.

 

 

[Augie]

I’m off to bed, but look forward to this in the morning. I had forgotten how absolutely ridiculous this game was in the beginning! Completely maddening! It seemed like they must have been the two WORST teams in the league. 

[Warcodered]

The biggest thing that annoys me is all the reactions to the roughing on Josh, just completely ignoring the questionable calls favoring the Chiefs that had come before it.

[GoBills808]

They called PI on Tre White vs Demarcus Robinson and not on L’Jarius Sneed vs Stefon Diggs🤦‍♂️
 

totally clueless officiating

 

And that holding call on Dawkins was just pitiful

[US Egg]

Could the refs earpiece also be wired to NFL hierarchy to influence officiating?

 

[billsbackto81]

The 2 that ticked me the most were the Holding calls on Dawkins and Morse. The Dawkins penalty (slight shoulder tug) though technically valid would have had no effect on the play. Even if Dion didn't hold Clark there was no way he was going to be able to tackle or slow down Singletary. 

 

The Morse penalty was an absolute embarrassment of officiating. At no time was there any indication of what constitutes a hold on that play. NONE!

Edited October 13, 2021 by billsbackto81

[GunnerBill]

I mean..... I did say all this at the time. The refs were not nearly as bad as Bills fans think. Both RTP calls were rulebook fouls and the one egregious penalty that Bills fans were legitimately annoyed by was the DPI on Tre on an uncatchable ball. 

 

He says pretty early on "let's at least be objective about it" I mean good luck. I have been trying to get Bills fans to be objective about penalties for almost a decade on this board. No luck yet.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

I mean..... I did say all this at the time. The refs were not nearly as bad as Bills fans think. Both RTP calls were rulebook fouls and the one egregious penalty that Bills fans were legitimately annoyed by was the DPI on Tre on an uncatchable ball. 

 

He says pretty early on "let's at least be objective about it" I mean good luck. I have been trying to get Bills fans to be objective about penalties for almost a decade on this board. No luck yet.

Read the article

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

The 2 that ticked me the most were the Holding calls on Dawkins and Morse. The Dawkins penalty (slight shoulder tug) though technically valid would have had no effect on the play. Even if Dion didn't hold Clark there was no way he was going to be able to tackle or slow down Singletary. 

 

The Morse penalty was an absolute embarrassment of officiating. At no time was there any indication of what constitutes a hold on that play. NONE!

 

I actually agree with you on the Morse flag. Thought that was very ticky tacky. There was the absolute slightest jersey tug but he had let go within a second. The Dion one the fact that Devin was already gone is not a consideration for that foul. Was just a bonehead mistake by Dion.

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Read the article

 

I have. He says pretty much that. Both RTP calls were valid, the DPI on Tre was a bad call (though he isn't as sure it is uncatchable) and while the Bills were slightly more affected by penalties there is nothing to suggest the refs were not calling things that should have been called on KC 

Edited October 13, 2021 by GunnerBill

[GoBills808]

The author concludes the Bills were adversely effected by penalties at over double the rate the Chiefs were. Anomalous both between two teams and against league/Bills averages. Effectively, it was a poorly officiated game that dramatically favored the Chiefs.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

The author concludes the Bills were adversely effected by penalties at over double the rate the Chiefs were. Anomalous both between two teams and against league/Bills averages. Effectively, it was a poorly officiated game that dramatically favored the Chiefs.

 

I am not sure he does conclude that it was a poorly officiated game, he does not actually dispute the specific calls except the Tre White one. Which I said on Sunday Night (well early hours of Monday) was the one really bad call. 

 

I think the Morse holding penalty was bogus too. He doesn't address that one, but the other penalties called on the Bills were penalties. Some of them are soft and would not be called by other crews but this is a flag happy crew. That is how they officiate the game. Every game they ref is a flag show.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am not sure he does conclude that it was a poorly officiated game, he does not actually dispute the specific calls except the Tre White one. Which I said on Sunday Night (well early hours of Monday) was the one really bad call. 

 

I think the Morse holding penalty was bogus too. He doesn't address that one, but the other penalties called on the Bills were penalties. Some of them are soft and would not be called by other crews but this is a flag happy crew. That is how they officiate the game. Every game they ref is a flag show.

This is his conclusion:

 

”I’ve already broken 1.000 words so let’s close this thing out. I don’t think the refs were TRYING to rig the game, but once in a while you get a bad game and this one definitely qualifies as that. I will also add that I’m focusing mostly on what was called, and there were a few no-calls I didn’t like either. “

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

This is his conclusion:

 

”I’ve already broken 1.000 words so let’s close this thing out. I don’t think the refs were TRYING to rig the game, but once in a while you get a bad game and this one definitely qualifies as that. I will also add that I’m focusing mostly on what was called, and there were a few no-calls I didn’t like either. “

 

Yea they were not trying to rig the game. It was a bad game in the sense there were loads of ticky tacky flags. They are an over officious crew who throw flags all over the place. Could have told you that before the game. The majority of their calls (particularly the big ones) excluding the White DPI were by rule correct. 

[GoBills808]

🤦‍♂️

[Dan]

And this is what’s wrong with the world. People can read or see the exact same thing, yet they’ve already dug in on a preconceived narrative. Hence nothing can change their mind and they still disagree about what is right in front of them despite clear evidence to the contrary. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Dan said:

And this is what’s wrong with the world. People can read or see the exact same thing, yet they’ve already dug in on a preconceived narrative. Hence nothing can change their mind and they still disagree about what is right in front of them despite clear evidence to the contrary. 

 

I mean I read what the guy wrote. The Bills fans crying over lots of KC holding, wasn't really there. The Bills fans complaining over the RTP call? It was by rule a penalty. The one where Bills fans have a legitimate gripe - the White DPI, which was not DPI. 

 

The Bills were more affected by penalties, yep. What this piece does not do is specifically dispute those calls with the exception of the White call. It does say it does not like a lot of what was called, but that is different than actually disputing that they are penalties. This is a renowned flag happy crew. They throw a lot of flags. Games they officiate often look as ugly as this. But the author saw the big calls the same way I did. 

[Freddie's Dead]

Did we ever get an explanation for the 1st and 5?  I've seen less than 1st and 20, but never less than 1st and 10 after offensive holding.

[Freddie's Dead]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I mean..... I did say all this at the time. The refs were not nearly as bad as Bills fans think. Both RTP calls were rulebook fouls and the one egregious penalty that Bills fans were legitimately annoyed by was the DPI on Tre on an uncatchable ball. 

 

He says pretty early on "let's at least be objective about it" I mean good luck. I have been trying to get Bills fans to be objective about penalties for almost a decade on this board. No luck yet.

 

I did The Zebra Report for a season a few years back.  I gave it up as a waste of time because my conclusion was that the state of refereeing in the NFL was abysmal, and it still is.  Instant replay is a joke because it's not equally applied (the Kelvin Benjamin TD that wasn't, the Dawson Knox INT that wasn't, the Bills TD in the HOU playoff game that wasn't, etc.).  Other teams get screwed by the refs as well, and it's a coin flip every week as to which team will get screwed more. 

 

For all the crap about the Clark penalty, IT WAS THE ONLY DEFENSIVE PENALTY ON KC FOR THE ENTIRE GAME!  I'm not buying it.  The most egregious example is when Diggs had his hand grabbed and pulled away on a sideline catch, which should have been DPI, but wasn't, forcing us to punt.  On the KC offensive side, Groot was being held all game long, on nearly every play.  There was one play where the RT just reached out and grabbed Groot's right arm with both hands as Groot was zeroing in on the Rat.  No call.  There were a couple holds we got away with on offense, but nothing as blatant as what happened to Groot.  The Dawkins call was the right one.  You have to call holding at the point of attack, no matter if Moss was past the LOS or not.  Dumb play by Dion.

 

I was an umpire for 5 years, and I'm an official for an Olympic sport.  I am pro official.  But the level of inconsistency I see from NFL referees week in and week out is too much to ignore.     

Edited October 13, 2021 by Freddie's Dead

[BillsFan130]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea they were not trying to rig the game. It was a bad game in the sense there were loads of ticky tacky flags. They are an over officious crew who throw flags all over the place. Could have told you that before the game. The majority of their calls (particularly the big ones) excluding the White DPI were by rule correct. 

Mitch Morse hold- Awful.

 

Dawkins hold- Ticky tack at best.

[Rochesterfan]

49 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Did we ever get an explanation for the 1st and 5?  I've seen less than 1st and 20, but never less than 1st and 10 after offensive holding.

 

This was previously explained - the holding was by the WR downfield - at 15 yards.  It was a spot foul - so it goes back 10 yards from the spot and replay the down.  That put it 5 yards short of the line to gain.

 

It happens several times a year - it is just uncommon because they rarely get a holding block more than 10 yards downfield which is what you need to get a <10 yards for first down.

 

It is no different than if it had happens by a WR holding at 3 yards downfield and it becomes 1st and 17.  It actually shows a great effort by the KC WR to keep blocking even way downfield.