It's Time to Mandate Vaccines

[ALF]

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Honest to God, people refuse to understand the word mitigation.  Cloth masks (again depending on the mask) help prevent spread, they do not completely block it, but they help. The data is irrefutable.  Wearing masks is not evil.  

 

Yeah, I'd rather folks wear N 95s but the supply isn't there.  

The increase in RSV presumably reflects the lower rates seen during the pandemic as kids were quarantined and such.  Now that society has opened up more the re is more likelihood of spread of these and other viruses.

 

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=n95+masks+for+virus+protection+made+in+usa&crid=2PIPMR0QDU88N&sprefix=n95%2Caps%2C279&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_3_3

 

They have plenty and made in US , received mine last month

[Orlando Buffalo]

8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Honest to God, people refuse to understand the word mitigation.  Cloth masks (again depending on the mask) help prevent spread, they do not completely block it, but they help. The data is irrefutable.  Wearing masks is not evil.  

 

 

Wearing masks is not evil, telling a child that you can't see your friend unless you wear a mask is evil. Especially telling children that not wearing a mask will kill people. And as I said the cloth masks do little and there are a lot of better ways to mitigate the threat in schools.

[BillStime]

 

[oldmanfan]

Posted this on the football side.  Read it so you'll understand what's going on.

 

Here is a commentary from a  respected pathologist Dr. J. Stacy Klutts who explains Covid and why vaccinated folks can still carry the virus, why vaccines work, and such.  It's the best summary I've seen.

 

I am in a unique position to report on what is going on with COVID-19, particularly the delta variant and why it’s so dangerous, and how it interacts with the vaccines. I’m the Special Assistant to the National Director of Pathology and Lab Medicine for the entire Veterans Affairs system, with a specific role in advising on elements of COVID testing for the system.  As such, I have a front row seat to all of the latest data since we use that information to make our national-policy decisions. So, here are a few important points that help explain why you should get vaccinated and wear a mask. I’ll do my best to stitch this all together so it makes sense:

 

1. Like Gorilla Glue. The delta variant (lineage B.1.617.2) has a particular collection of mutations in the spike protein (that knob-like projection you see in renderings of the virus) that make it extremely effective in attaching to human cells and gaining entry. If the original COVID strains were covered in syrup, this variant is covered in ultrafast-drying Gorilla Super Glue (industrial strength).

2. 1,000 times higher. There are two recent publications which demonstrate that the viral loads in the back of the throats of infected patients are 1,000 times higher with the delta than with previous variants. I can tell you from data in my own labs, that is absolutely true. We are seeing viral signals we never saw last year using the exact same assays.

3. Much more infectious. This much higher load plus the ultra “stickiness” of the delta strains for adhering to human cells makes it remarkably more infectious than previous strains. You may have heard of R0 (Pronounced R naught) which is, in a nutshell, the number of people to which an infected person would be expected to transmit the virus. Early versions of the virus had a 2 to 2.5 R0 value. So one infected person would infect two or so people on average. Delta has an R0 of about eight! In the infectious disease world, that’s almost unheard of. Chickenpox and measles are about all we have ever seen that spread that efficiently from human to human. This changes the story line completely from earlier in the pandemic and makes this surge, in many ways, like a completely different pandemic event.

4. Five days. There is another recent publication out of Singapore with data that confirms something we suspected. I will explain more about the “why” on this below when I talk about vaccines, but the gist is this: The viral loads in the throats of vaccinated persons who become infected with delta rises at identical rates as in unvaccinated persons, but only for the first few days. After five days or so, the viral loads in the vaccinated person start to quickly drop whereas those in the unvaccinated person persist. This key set of observations is important for several reasons relating to vaccinated persons serving as vectors for spread (see below).

5. Young people. This pandemic, Round 2, is primarily being observed in younger patients than in Round 1. Our children’s hospitals are even already filling up or full. Because of the delta viral dynamics, it is much more capable of causing severe disease in a larger swath of the population. You spew enough of any human pathogen on someone without immunity, and it’s not going to end well. This sets up very poorly for the beginning of the school year — which has already started in Florida — and it scares me. Check that. It is actually terrifying. I sure hope we have vaccines for the 5- to 11-year-olds soon.

6. Vaccines work! Speaking of vaccines. Are they working? Yes! They are absolutely doing their expected job. We know a lot about vaccines for upper respiratory viruses, as we have been giving the population one every year for decades (influenza). To explain all of this, I need to provide some biological context. When you get a vaccine as a “shot,” the “antigen” in the vaccine leads to formation of an antibody response. You probably knew that. What’s important, though, is that it primarily leads to a specific Immunoglobulin G (IgG) response. That’s the antibody type that circulates around in really high numbers in the blood, is located some in tissues and is more easily detectable by blood tests, etc.

What that shot does not do is produce an Immunoglobulin A (IgA) antibody response to the virus at the surface of the throat mucosa. That’s the antibody type that could prevent the virus from ever binding in the first place. As such, in a vaccinated person, the virus can still attach like it’s about to break into the house, but it doesn’t realize that there is an armed homeowner on the other side of the door. When that virus is detected, the IgG beats it up and clears it before the person gets very ill (or ill at all). (Sidebar: Anyone ever had their kid — or themselves — get the “Flumist” vaccine as their annual flu booster? The idea there is to introduce the antigens at the surface of the throat mucosa leading to that IgA response that will prevent infection from happening at all. Sounds good and still has a place, but it isn’t quite as effective overall as the shot.)

7. Preventing disease and death. The COVID-19 vaccines are designed to prevent disease/death through that IgG response (though it does also reduce infections somewhat). How good are the vaccines at doing all of this with delta? The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has just released data addressing that very question. Punchline: They’re remarkably good! The vaccine shows an 8-fold reduction in the development of any symptomatic disease secondary to delta. For hospitalization, it is a 25-fold reduction. That’s 25 times! Remarkable. For death, it is also 25 times! This is a very effective pharmaceutical class when looking at overall efficacy toward the intended/expected purpose. When looking at the very tiny side effect profile, I’d personally consider it one of the best overall pharmaceuticals on the market in any class of drugs.

8. So, you’re vaccinated? First of all, a sincere, heart-felt thank you! But you may now ask, so why do I again need to wear a mask? We talked about disease, hospitalizations and death above, but what about infections themselves? The vaccines are now estimated to provide a 3-times reduction in infection. For reasons that I tried to make clear above, it isn’t surprising that the vaccine is less effective at preventing infection vs. preventing disease. We are indeed seeing detectable virus, at high levels, in asymptomatic, vaccinated persons when we test them prior to procedures, etc. We have a few that are mildly symptomatic, too.

While we now understand that the virus fades from the back of the throat pretty quickly in a vaccinated person, we also know that an infected, vaccinated person can transmit this very infectious virus to others for at least a couple of days. So, as before, you are being asked to wear a mask to primarily protect others.

We need you again to interrupt the transmission cycle of the virus, as you don’t know when you might be infectious. The vaccine alone cannot interrupt this cycle when there is a lot of virus in the community within unprotected persons.

9. What’s next? I live and practice in Iowa, and I see the tsunami wave on the horizon. It’s typical for respiratory viruses to begin in the southern United States (where it is hot and everyone clusters indoors in the air conditioning to escape the heat) and then creep north to affect those areas when it gets colder (and people go inside because it’s getting colder). If you live in the north and are not vaccinated, it is not too late, but it’s getting damn close. It’s also time to start wearing masks in public again (ugh...I hate it, too).  Those of you in the south, particularly in Florida, know that the tsunami is already on your shores. If you weren’t already off the beach, you might be in trouble. However, if you are there and haven’t yet been affected, run like hell to metaphorical higher ground — get vaccinated, wear a mask.

I beg of you, watch that wave and don’t ignore it. I have zero political agenda (I hate politics). I’m just a nerdy scientist and physician who loves you all, and I certainly don’t want to see a mass of my friends grieving — or dead — because I didn’t yell loud enough to get you and your families off that beach. So, run! (to your pharmacy ... driving is allowed). You don’t want any part of this thing without vaccine on board.

 

Dr. J. Stacey Klutts is a clinical associate professor of pathology and clinical microbiology at the University of Iowa and is the chief of the Pathology and Laboratory Service for the Central Iowa VA Health Care System. He is the past president of the Academy of Clinical Laboratory Physicians and Scientists (ACLPS) and chairs the National VA Clinical Microbiology Council in addition to his national roles referenced above. This is adapted from a Facebook post with permission of the author.

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Rc2catch

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I have done a Medline search and there are about 950 references when you enter Covid and masks as search terms.  I have looked through the first 100, and there are 12 studies that directly address the question of mask effectiveness.  All of them indicate a mitigating effect of masks, the effectiveness of which depend on the type of mask and how it is worn.

 

You want to talk about cost vs. benefit, I agree.  The benefit is that having masks on get our kids back into schools instead of doing on line learning like last year, and provide some mitigating effect.  The cost I would suggest is not the actual wearing of masks (because they do not mean you breathe in CO2 and such), but that the kids feel depressed and such wearing them.  I am also doing a search of articles on mental health in kids during the pandemic, and what I'm seeing is that there were in fact negative effects that were related to feelings of isolation because kids could not see their friends and family during the pandemic and because of on line learning.  

 

Anecdotally, I have seen kids interviewed, and I have talked to kids, and what they say is they have no problem wearing masks if it gets them back in school with their friends.

Maybe instead of dicking around with lots of expensive vaccines and treatments along with all kinds of useless mandates the FDA and the NIH can get in the game on a simple yet very effective treatment based on trial results to date.   Its sounds too easy but clinical studies to date validate it.  

 

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210708005228/en/SaNOtize’s-Anti-Viral-Treatment-Made-Available-in-Israeli-Pharmacies

 

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210315005197/en/UK-Clinical-Trial-Confirms-SaNOtize’s-Breakthrough-Treatment-for-COVID-19

 

 

[Chef Jim]

3 hours ago, BillStime said:

What is he not doing?

 

Motivating people to do the right thing.  Bringing in people from all walks of life to motivate those not being vaccinated.  You know people like them.  Leaders that the Black and Hispanic community trust and believe.  Leaders in the rural areas that those in rural areas trust and believe.  Leaders in the Republican party that Republicans trust and believe.  You know manage, lead! Be creative.  Not stand there like the old man he is and drone on about masks and shots.  Politicians are so bad at leading which is a shame because that's what we hire them to do.

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Chef Jim

[oldmanfan]

9 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Maybe instead of dicking around with lots of expensive vaccines and treatments along with all kinds of useless mandates the FDA and the NIH can get in the game on a simple yet very effective treatment based on trial results to date.   Its sounds too easy but clinical studies to date validate it.  

 

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210708005228/en/SaNOtize’s-Anti-Viral-Treatment-Made-Available-in-Israeli-Pharmacies

 

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210315005197/en/UK-Clinical-Trial-Confirms-SaNOtize’s-Breakthrough-Treatment-for-COVID-19

 

 

No question finding effective treatments would help.

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

No question finding effective treatments would help.

Absolutely and what's been elusive has been an effective virus killer.  This looks like the real deal for that task.  Let's hope..

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Absolutely and what's been elusive has been an effective virus killer.  This looks like the real deal for that task.  Let's hope..

Let’s see if the media trashes all treatments developed under Biden. What’s your guess? 

[oldmanfan]

16 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Absolutely and what's been elusive has been an effective virus killer.  This looks like the real deal for that task.  Let's hope..

Viruses are such tricky beasts.  You'll have some like measles where a vaccine essentially wipes it out, then you have one like HIV where you can't get a vaccine but treatments can control it.  Covid seems to fall in the former category somewhat given the effectiveness of the vaccines, but more like the flu where we'll need shots on a periodic basis.

[BillStime]

2 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Motivating people to do the right thing.  Bringing in people from all walks of life to motivate those not being vaccinated.  You know people like them.  Leaders that the Black and Hispanic community trust and believe.  Leaders in the rural areas that those in rural areas trust and believe.  Leaders in the Republican party that Republicans trust and believe.  You know manage, lead! Be creative.  Not stand there like the old man he is and drone on about masks and shots.  Politicians are so bad at leading which is a shame because that's what we hire them to do.

 

 

 

How do you know that’s not happening?

[Chef Jim]

4 minutes ago, BillStime said:

How do you know that’s not happening?

 

Because I've not seen it happen.  Have you?  

[BillStime]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

 

Because I've not seen it happen.  Have you?  

So ignorance is bliss

[Chef Jim]

Just now, BillStime said:

So ignorance is bliss

 

Have you seen it happen and if so show me where and when? 

[BillStime]

17 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Have you seen it happen and if so show me where and when? 

With something as political as COVID has been the past 17 months - do you think the administration is going to broadcast what they are doing to inflame the right?

 

Also - when you go do your research -  let us know about the recent uptick in vaccinations.

[Chef Jim]

6 minutes ago, BillStime said:

With something as political as COVID has been the past 17 months - do you think the administration is going to broadcast what they are doing to inflame the right?

 

Also - when you go do your research -  let us know about the recent uptick in vaccinations.

 

Broadcast what they are doing?  So in your tiny mind not doing something is just "being afraid to broadcast it"  Hahahahahaha!! 

 

They don't want to inflame the right.  Bwahahahahaha! 

 

So they've not done what I suggested.  Got it thanks for the clarification and the great belly laugh.

 

Carry on Clown.  

[BillStime]

12 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Broadcast what they are doing?  So in your tiny mind not doing something is just "being afraid to broadcast it"  Hahahahahaha!! 

 

They don't want to inflame the right.  Bwahahahahaha! 

 

So they've not done what I suggested.  Got it thanks for the clarification and the great belly laugh.

 

Carry on Clown.  

Once again - ignorance is bliss.

We are losing more Americans because of COVID than at war.
 

At the end of the day - red states need to do their job - isn’t that what the cult here screamed about Cuomo and Newsom last year?

 

yep 

[Sundancer]

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, BillStime said:

Once again - ignorance is bliss.

We are losing more Americans because of COVID than at war.
 

At the end of the day - red states need to do their job - isn’t that what the cult here screamed about Cuomo and Newsom last year?

 

yep 

 

And Biden should be reaching out to the community leaders like I mentioned to get them to motivate people to get it done.  You know......teamwork! 

 

You're just pissed because it's a great idea and your old man didn't think of it because he has no idea how to lead. Not his fault actually. He's had no real role models in DC in the half a century he's been there to show him what true leadership is. 

 

Carry on Follower 

[Big Blitz]

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