Critical Race Theory

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I have to agree...unless I missed something, the questions seemed fairly innocent enough...

I’m a parent of two.  God knows I advocate for my kids.  But this is different.  You show me where an elementary or secondary school is actually teaching CRT I’ll listen.  But they aren’t.   You have people exploiting kids, sometimes their own, to make a political point.  Shameful.

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I’m a parent of two.  God knows I advocate for my kids.  But this is different.  You show me where an elementary or secondary school is actually teaching CRT I’ll listen.  But they aren’t.   You have people exploiting kids, sometimes their own, to make a political point.  Shameful.

Let’s say that’s true. Would rather parents wait until the damage is done to their kids or speak up BEFOREHAND? I’m happy parents are speaking up. Cut this off at the pass.

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

Let’s say that’s true. Would you rather parents wait until the damage is done to their kids or speak up BEFOREHAND? I’m happy parents are speaking up. Cut this off at the pass.

 

[Irv]

2 hours ago, BillStime said:

Classic @Deranged Rhino

 

 

Again.  Please try to stay on topic.  Not every thread is about Trump.  What a mess

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Let’s say that’s true. Would rather parents wait until the damage is done to their kids or speak up BEFOREHAND? I’m happy parents are speaking up. Cut this off at the pass.

 

No.  We have an ex-teacher invading our local high school calling for parents to go after teachers by name because they have signs in their classrooms saying you have to wear masks (note:  these are from last year, teachers haven’t come back yet).  A guy showed up at a school board meeting and a loaded gun fell out of his pocket.  And it’s all because of this manufactured CRT nonsense; it has started nonsense not just limited to CRT.

The district is not teaching CRT.  They have no plans to do so.  They have said this repeatedly.  But some parents egged on by this quasi-organization led by some lawyer in Chicago keep on this because they want to use kids to play politics.

 

Your question of what if it were true is misplaced.  It’s not true, bottom line.  If there were something as a parent I found wrong, I’d do what I’ve done a couple times.  Request a meeting with the teacher, then theoretically the principal, then the superintendent, and then the school board if I felt I needed to.  And only one time did I not get a satisfactory answer from a parent and have to have an associate principal get involved.  
 

 

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I just looked through the entire survey.  There is not one question - zero - that relates to critical race theory.  Not one question even hints at trying to convince white kids that black kids hate them, which is what people try to claim.  None.  Nada.  Zip.  Goose egg.

 

There are a couple that point a bit towards diversity, equity, and inclusion.  All ideas that look towards brining people closer together.  
 

Parents are using their kids to push some kind of ridiculous political agenda.

You're correct as far as I can tell after going through the whole survey.  The only real controversial question has to do with gender identity which isn't at all related to CRT.

[SoCal Deek]

7 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

No.  We have an ex-teacher invading our local high school calling for parents to go after teachers by name because they have signs in their classrooms saying you have to wear masks (note:  these are from last year, teachers haven’t come back yet).  A guy showed up at a school board meeting and a loaded gun fell out of his pocket.  And it’s all because of this manufactured CRT nonsense; it has started nonsense not just limited to CRT.

The district is not teaching CRT.  They have no plans to do so.  They have said this repeatedly.  But some parents egged on by this quasi-organization led by some lawyer in Chicago keep on this because they want to use kids to play politics.

 

Your question of what if it were true is misplaced.  It’s not true, bottom line.  If there were something as a parent I found wrong, I’d do what I’ve done a couple times.  Request a meeting with the teacher, then theoretically the principal, then the superintendent, and then the school board if I felt I needed to.  And only one time did I not get a satisfactory answer from a parent and have to have an associate principal get involved.  
 

 

Sure, if you say so. I think I’m going to back the parents. Everyone needs to stay civil and respectful but the parents have the right to address their school board. And, this is NOT an issue you bring up with the teacher. This is curriculum issue, which your child’s teacher doesn’t either control or direct. (Trust me, I work with and around public education.)

[oldmanfan]

16 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Sure, if you say so. I think I’m going to back the parents. Everyone needs to stay civil and respectful but the parents have the right to address their school board. And, this is NOT an issue you bring up with the teacher. This is curriculum issue, which your child’s teacher doesn’t either control or direct. (Trust me, I work with and around public education.)

Then you bring it up to the principal and/or superintendent and school board.  And they have said repeatedly to parents that CRT is not part of the curriculum.  But yet parents still disrupt board meetings, carry guns into them, etc.  It is ridiculous.

 

Let's extend your logic a bit.  Say I decide that I think the school is teaching my kids that gay people are nicer than straight people, and because of that all people should become gay.  You pick  whatever fantasy you want to dream up.  There is no actual evidence whatsoever that this is so of course, much like there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the school district teaches CRT, but I decide it is so.  So I band together a group of parents who also believe in fantasies, and I go to school board meetings and completely disrupt things so that the actual business of taking care of education in my town is halted.  You think this is the right way to do things?  Seriously?

[SoCal Deek]

17 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Then you bring it up to the principal and/or superintendent and school board.  And they have said repeatedly to parents that CRT is not part of the curriculum.  But yet parents still disrupt board meetings, carry guns into them, etc.  It is ridiculous.

 

Let's extend your logic a bit.  Say I decide that I think the school is teaching my kids that gay people are nicer than straight people, and because of that all people should become gay.  You pick  whatever fantasy you want to dream up.  There is no actual evidence whatsoever that this is so of course, much like there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the school district teaches CRT, but I decide it is so.  So I band together a group of parents who also believe in fantasies, and I go to school board meetings and completely disrupt things so that the actual business of taking care of education in my town is halted.  You think this is the right way to do things?  Seriously?

I already said that’s not the way to conduct things. But the actual protocol is to address the Board who then direct their Superintendent to meet with the parent(s). It’s really simple and attending as many school board meetings as I do I think you’d find that it happens all the time. I’m guessing that the school district isn’t following protocol and they’re either not answering the parents legitimate questions or being utterly evasive in their responses. It’s my experience that outraged people don’t just suddenly show up at a board meeting. Something, often many things, has led them to seek the venue of last resort. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[Orlando Tim]

8 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

No.  We have an ex-teacher invading our local high school calling for parents to go after teachers by name because they have signs in their classrooms saying you have to wear masks (note:  these are from last year, teachers haven’t come back yet).  A guy showed up at a school board meeting and a loaded gun fell out of his pocket.  And it’s all because of this manufactured CRT nonsense; it has started nonsense not just limited to CRT.

The district is not teaching CRT.  They have no plans to do so.  They have said this repeatedly.  But some parents egged on by this quasi-organization led by some lawyer in Chicago keep on this because they want to use kids to play politics.

 

Your question of what if it were true is misplaced.  It’s not true, bottom line.  If there were something as a parent I found wrong, I’d do what I’ve done a couple times.  Request a meeting with the teacher, then theoretically the principal, then the superintendent, and then the school board if I felt I needed to.  And only one time did I not get a satisfactory answer from a parent and have to have an associate principal get involved.  
 

 

Your comment that CRT is not real is stupid, and I don't use it lightly. Buffalo city schools adopted the 1619 project as the basis for their history ciriculuum, which is not history but a narrative. It might not be that widespread but it is a problem that was becoming worse and now is being stopped in it's track. As for the parents that are using their kids as political pawns, I don't respect them but when I am told math is racist roots- which I have been told - I get pissed at intentional ignorance.

[oldmanfan]

37 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Your comment that CRT is not real is stupid, and I don't use it lightly. Buffalo city schools adopted the 1619 project as the basis for their history ciriculuum, which is not history but a narrative. It might not be that widespread but it is a problem that was becoming worse and now is being stopped in it's track. As for the parents that are using their kids as political pawns, I don't respect them but when I am told math is racist roots- which I have been told - I get pissed at intentional ignorance.

It is not that it is not real, it is that it is not being taught in the curriculum of the secondary schools that I know of.   Kids are truly being used as pawns by their parents.

58 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I already said that’s not the way to conduct things. But the actual protocol is to address the Board who then direct their Superintendent to meet with the parent(s). It’s really simple and attending as many school board meetings as I do I think you’d find that it happens all the time. I’m guessing that the school district isn’t following protocol and they’re either not answering the parents legitimate questions or being utterly evasive in their responses. It’s my experience that outraged people don’t just suddenly show up at a board meeting. Something, often many things, has led them to seek the venue of last resort. 

Sorry, but wrong again.  I was at the meeting in my district.  You are asked to contact the board to put items on the agenda, and are asked to contact the board to speak during open discussion times.  Two meetings I went to were hijacked by parents who had done neither.  And then they of course left before the superintendent could address their nonsense.  His response, showing that CRT is not part of the curriculum, was not heard and ignored thereafter by the parent group that seeks to use their own children to play a political game.  

 

I suspect this is happening all over the country.

[Chef Jim]

40 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Your comment that CRT is not real is stupid, and I don't use it lightly. Buffalo city schools adopted the 1619 project as the basis for their history ciriculuum, which is not history but a narrative. It might not be that widespread but it is a problem that was becoming worse and now is being stopped in it's track. As for the parents that are using their kids as political pawns, I don't respect them but when I am told math is racist roots- which I have been told - I get pissed at intentional ignorance.

I disagree. 1619 is history.   But to use that date to push the narrative as you said does not belong.  I have no problem with CRT just as I have no problem with Einstein’s theory of relativity.  But what is interesting in bringing up Einstein’s theory is what is the relevance of the narrating that CRT will likely bring into the growth of our chiller.  

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

It is not that it is not real, it is that it is not being taught in the curriculum of the secondary schools that I know of.   Kids are truly being used as pawns by their parents.

And teachers and politicians. 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

I disagree. 1619 is history.   But to use that date to push the narrative as you said does not belong.  I have no problem with CRT just as I have no problem with Einstein’s theory of relativity.  But what is interesting in bringing up Einstein’s theory is what is the relevance of the narrating that CRT will likely bring into the growth of our chiller.  

And teachers and politicians. 

I would agree with the teachers and politicians on both sides of the aisle.  I just looked at the Buffalo schools 1619 initiative.  It teaches history.  Not CRT, history.  And history that I never got when I was a kid.  Slavery is unfortunately a part of our history.  

[Chef Jim]

16 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I would agree with the teachers and politicians on both sides of the aisle.  I just looked at the Buffalo schools 1619 initiative.  It teaches history.  Not CRT, history.  And history that I never got when I was a kid.  Slavery is unfortunately a part of our history.  

If you think 1619 is only about history you’ve not been paying attention.  It is history in basis but often used to push a narrative. 
 

You were never taught about slavery in school?  😏

Edited August 13, 2021 by Chef Jim

[Orlando Tim]

18 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

It is not that it is not real, it is that it is not being taught in the curriculum of the secondary schools that I know of.  

If you mean it is not the primary ciriculuum for most of the country that is correct, but it should not be allowed to ever be used. Buffalo is going to be teaching there children many things that are not true based on the choices they made. This is the other side of the old history books that discussed how wonderful life was for slaves, no more accurate 

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

If you think 1619 is only about history you’ve not been paying attention.  It is history in basis but often used to push a narrative. 
 

You were never taught about slavery in school?  😏

Slavery, yes.  Specifics such as what happened in New Orleans and Tulsa, no.

[Orlando Tim]

29 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I would agree with the teachers and politicians on both sides of the aisle.  I just looked at the Buffalo schools 1619 initiative.  It teaches history.  Not CRT, history.  And history that I never got when I was a kid.  Slavery is unfortunately a part of our history.  

I’ve always said that the 1619 Project is not a history. It is a work of journalism that explicitly seeks to challenge the national narrative and, therefore, the national memory. The project has always been as much about the present as it is the past.”

 

I think this quote shows it is not a history.

 

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I’ve always said that the 1619 Project is not a history. It is a work of journalism that explicitly seeks to challenge the national narrative and, therefore, the national memory. The project has always been as much about the present as it is the past.”

 

I think this quote shows it is not a history.

 

And where does this quote come from?

[Orlando Tim]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

And where does this quote come from?

Sorry that is key- Nikole Hannah-Jones who is the person who produced the 1619 project. 

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Sorry that is key- Nikole Hannah-Jones who is the person who produced the 1619 project. 

And a very telling quote. Thanks for sharing. 

Again all these things have very little, if anything, to do with history. 

[SoCal Deek]

There’s an awful lot of you tossing around the term 1619 Project on here that repeat phrases without knowing virtually anything about what they mean. History? My fat arse!!

[BillStime]

[oldmanfan]

On 8/13/2021 at 10:23 AM, Buffalo Timmy said:

Sorry that is key- Nikole Hannah-Jones who is the person who produced the 1619 project. 

Zealots generally are not very helpful to any cause.  She looks like a prime example.

[Chef Jim]

12 hours ago, BillStime said:

 

Can't teach what Twit for Brains

12 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Zealots generally are not very helpful to any cause.  She looks like a prime example.

 

Would you consider some wanting to incorporate CRT (or race relations) in our schools to impressionable children as zealots?

[oldmanfan]

51 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Can't teach what Twit for Brains

 

Would you consider some wanting to incorporate CRT (or race relations) in our schools to impressionable children as zealots?

CRT to my knowledge is not being taught in elementary my or high schools so your point is moot.  If someone tried to push it on school systems to teach then yes they would be.

 

I have said numerous times I do not think CRT should be taught at a secondary school level.  I have also said that diversity, equity and inclusion education should be and that there are folks, including parents, saying it is the same as CRT, which it is not, and that parents are shamefully using their children as political pawns.

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

CRT to my knowledge is not being taught in elementary my or high schools so your point is moot.  If someone tried to push it on school systems to teach then yes they would be.

 

I have said numerous times I do not think CRT should be taught at a secondary school level.  I have also said that diversity, equity and inclusion education should be and that there are folks, including parents, saying it is the same as CRT, which it is not, and that parents are shamefully using their children as political pawns.

How about we just teach kids to judge others on the content of their character instead on the color of their skin? Will that work for you? 

[oldmanfan]

28 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

How about we just teach kids to judge others on the content of their character instead on the color of their skin? Will that work for you? 

That is what diversity, equity and inclusion teaches.  Will that work for you?

[Chef Jim]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

CRT to my knowledge is not being taught in elementary my or high schools so your point is moot.  If someone tried to push it on school systems to teach then yes they would be.

 

I have said numerous times I do not think CRT should be taught at a secondary school level.  I have also said that diversity, equity and inclusion education should be and that there are folks, including parents, saying it is the same as CRT, which it is not, and that parents are shamefully using their children as political pawns.

 

My point is absolutely not moot because they are discussing it being taught.  I have no problem teaching the theory.  My problem is, and has always been, what agenda will our teachers use under the umbrella of "oh we're just teaching CRT"   It's the adlibbing that will concern me. 

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

 

My point is absolutely not moot because they are discussing it being taught.  I have no problem teaching the theory.  My problem is, and has always been, what agenda will our teachers use under the umbrella of "oh we're just teaching CRT"   It's the adlibbing that will concern me. 

They are not discussing it being taught by and large.  It is right wing demagogues saying they are teaching it with no evidence as such.

 

Again, in the district where I live the superintendent had to deal with parents yelling and screaming about it.  When he pointed out that the curriculum is controlled by the state Department of Education and includes nothing about CRT, the parents with a political agenda had already left the meeting because they did not want to hear the truth.

 

Parents yelling about this are using their kids as political pawns.  It is shameful.

[Orlando Tim]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

That is what diversity, equity and inclusion teaches.  Will that work for you?

Dude you believe in the goodness of politicians to an absurd level. The idea of equity is the opposite of judging someone on their character. Equity says that people should have the same outcome regardless of character or skills. 

[Chef Jim]

55 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They are not discussing it being taught by and large.  It is right wing demagogues saying they are teaching it with no evidence as such.

 

Again, in the district where I live the superintendent had to deal with parents yelling and screaming about it.  When he pointed out that the curriculum is controlled by the state Department of Education and includes nothing about CRT, the parents with a political agenda had already left the meeting because they did not want to hear the truth.

 

Parents yelling about this are using their kids as political pawns.  It is shameful.

So you have faith in a) politicians creating school curriculum (left or right) and b)

 teachers following the curriculum and not ad libbing or editorializing? 

[oldmanfan]

17 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Dude you believe in the goodness of politicians to an absurd level. The idea of equity is the opposite of judging someone on their character. Equity says that people should have the same outcome regardless of character or skills. 

Dude I have taken training in it every year as part of my workplace mandatory yearly requirements.  My daughter is a DEI counselor.  I understand it.  The idea is to help everyone understand why we should all be judged by the content of their character.  And my training has nothing to do with politicians, it’s because the board and CEO of our health network know it makes a better workplace.

[All_Pro_Bills]

9 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

So you have faith in a) politicians creating school curriculum (left or right) and b)

 teachers following the curriculum and not ad libbing or editorializing? 

Some districts have re-branded CRT racist teachings as "anti-racism curriculums" while claiming educators are under attack from organized right wing groups.  So change the narrative and when cornered play the victim which as we know is the number one go-to move of the far-left.

[oldmanfan]

12 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

So you have faith in a) politicians creating school curriculum (left or right) and b)

 teachers following the curriculum and not ad libbing or editorializing? 

I believe people who are trained in educational process should design curriculum.  What is going on now is right wing politicians trying to hijack the process for their political purpose, and left wing politicians trying to hijack the process for their political purpose.  And worst of all parents using their kids as political pawns as mentioned earlier.

 

And if a teacher goes off the reservation then that should be addressed with the teacher and up the chain if needed.  Regardless of the situation.  I have had to follow that process once when I basically had to teach my daughter Anatomy and physiology because the teacher was wrong on too many things.  I did not, however, manufacture a crisis and go screaming in front of the school board totally disrupting things to do so.

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Some districts have re-branded CRT racist teachings as "anti-racism curriculums" while claiming educators are under attack from organized right wing groups.  So change the narrative and when cornered play the victim which as we know is the number one go-to move of the far-left.

One of the right wing nuts manufacturing the CRT nonsense in our community, who also is one of the rabid anti-mask nuts, snuck into our high school and started taking pictures of classrooms because they had masks required signs.  She started ranting that these are the same teachers want CRT and posted this nonsense.  
 

Now, the fact that those mask signs were from last year because teachers had not come back to school yet, and the fact that CRT is in fact not taught, we’re of course ignored.  And several teachers have now been threatened.  So yes, the attacks from organized groups are real.

[All_Pro_Bills]

46 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I believe people who are trained in educational process should design curriculum.  What is going on now is right wing politicians trying to hijack the process for their political purpose, and left wing politicians trying to hijack the process for their political purpose.  And worst of all parents using their kids as political pawns as mentioned earlier. 

 

And if a teacher goes off the reservation then that should be addressed with the teacher and up the chain if needed.  Regardless of the situation.  I have had to follow that process once when I basically had to teach my daughter Anatomy and physiology because the teacher was wrong on too many things.  I did not, however, manufacture a crisis and go screaming in front of the school board totally disrupting things to do so.

One of the right wing nuts manufacturing the CRT nonsense in our community, who also is one of the rabid anti-mask nuts, snuck into our high school and started taking pictures of classrooms because they had masks required signs.  She started ranting that these are the same teachers want CRT and posted this nonsense.  
 

Now, the fact that those mask signs were from last year because teachers had not come back to school yet, and the fact that CRT is in fact not taught, we’re of course ignored.  And several teachers have now been threatened.  So yes, the attacks from organized groups are real.

I agree that educators should design the curriculum.  But that doesn't imply educators should hold dictatorial powers while parents and other stakeholders have zero say and input into what ultimately gets taught and what doesn't to their children.  

 

But maybe if our educators and school districts would focus on producing students with a high level of competency in the basics like math and science where U.S. student performance ranks poorly worldwide before moving into social justice curriculums there might be less yelling and shouting?  

 

And while I don't endorse the idea that child indoctrination into any kind of ideology is a role the educational system should be assuming I'm puzzled why the left which has organized and controlled the education narrative unchallenged for decades is now raising the alarm that groups pushing back on them are "organized".  A tactic they've used with great success.

[Orlando Tim]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Dude I have taken training in it every year as part of my workplace mandatory yearly requirements.  My daughter is a DEI counselor.  I understand it.  The idea is to help everyone understand why we should all be judged by the content of their character.  And my training has nothing to do with politicians, it’s because the board and CEO of our health network know it makes a better workplace.

Equity that simply becomes equal outcomes does not make any workplace better. It is a fact that some people are more useful than others in certain jobs, and the incompetent should be rewarded equally with the competent. My union does not help good teachers it protects the bad ones so we are all treated with equity and you wonder why good teachers leave.

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Equity that simply becomes equal outcomes does not make any workplace better. It is a fact that some people are more useful than others in certain jobs, and the incompetent should be rewarded equally with the competent. My union does not help good teachers it protects the bad ones so we are all treated with equity and you wonder why good teachers leave.

Equity should mean an equal shot as far as I’m concerned.  What you do with it is on you.  I agree that you don’t keep bad folks to meet some kind of quota, but the idea is to open up more opportunities for those who may have been closed out.

[Chef Jim]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Equity should mean an equal shot as far as I’m concerned.  What you do with it is on you.  I agree that you don’t keep bad folks to meet some kind of quota, but the idea is to open up more opportunities for those who may have been closed out.

What do you mean?  What opportunities and who have been closed out?  

[Orlando Tim]

9 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Equity should mean an equal shot as far as I’m concerned.  What you do with it is on you.  I agree that you don’t keep bad folks to meet some kind of quota, but the idea is to open up more opportunities for those who may have been closed out.

An equal shot is called equality. The reason it has basically been abandoned by liberals is it means hard work. Equity means equal results and pretends that some God given skill and hard work are not the main reason for success 

[SoCal Deek]

Wow what a frightening discussion. Equity and diversity definitely do NOT mean equal opportunity! They’re both terms that measure OUTCOMES. We’ve had anti-discrimination laws in this country for years. This latest push is intended to bypass those laws on the ridiculous notion that somehow board rooms, locker rooms, and staff lounges will all magically be improved if the class photo looks more like a rainbow coalition. I have no idea why the quality of the photo with something as random as skin pigmentation. Why not stature? Why not left handededness? Why not waste size? Baldness?

[B-Man]