Malazan Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 The legend of Wyatt Teller may one day eclipse the legend of Kiko Alonso 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Man Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 On 5/27/2021 at 1:25 PM, OnTheRocks said: Who do you see on the current roster that the Bills might give up on that has the potential to become a Pro Bowler? (and I know the Bills didn't necessarily "give up" on Teller, but they gave away a future pro bowler on the cheap). He wasn't given away cheap. He was traded for a fair price for what he was, and what people expected him to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Mountain Man said: He wasn't given away cheap. He was traded for a fair price for what he was, and what people expected him to be Opinions vary on that. Bill Callahan is the Browns OL coach and he’s likely the best in the game at that job. He was the main reason the Browns pursued Teller as he considered him to have been an exceptional OG prospect. In fact he said he thought he was the best OG prospect in the entire 2018 draft. As for the trade, it was a fifth and a sixth in 2020 to the Bills for Teller and a 2021 seventh. For that price the Browns got an All Pro OG. Meanwhile the Bills have had average to below average OG play. While I don’t see the need to keep bringing up the trade, there’s really no way to spin it positively for the Bills. It is what it is. Just move on already. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Man Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 2 hours ago, BarleyNY said: . As for the trade, it was a fifth and a sixth in 2020 to the Bills for Teller and a 2021 seventh. For that price the Browns got an All Pro OG. No. They got a developmental guard. He later turned into an All Pro Guard. That's very different. 2 hours ago, BarleyNY said: , there’s really no way to spin it positively for the Bills. It is what it is. Just move on already. No. Claiming the Bills traded an All Pro Guard is spin. They didn't. They traded what he was at the time. And when they traded him, he wasn't All Pro, or anywhere near it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mountain Man said: No. They got a developmental guard. He later turned into an All Pro Guard. That's very different. No. Claiming the Bills traded an All Pro Guard is spin. They didn't. They traded what he was at the time. And when they traded him, he wasn't All Pro, or anywhere near it. I never said it that the Bills traded away a guard that was already an All Pro. I said that there were varying opinions of how good Teller could be. One of the people with a very high opinion of him got him and helped him turn into that All Pro. It’s obvious in retrospect that Teller’s potential is that of an elite OG, one of the best in the game. It’s too bad that the Bills didn’t see it. It is not too different from the Bills seeing the potential in Jerry Hughes, getting him cheap and reaping the rewards of him blossoming here. Bills fans certainly never had a problem taking credit for that being such a great move. Edited to add: You wrote that he “later turned into an All Pro guard”. You make it sound like it took a long time to develop. One year. That’s what it took. Edited May 28, 2021 by BarleyNY 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. K Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 Darryl Johnson maybe? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Firebaugh Kid Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 Spencer Brown. I have a feeling we just stole a GREAT lineman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam727 Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 I'm not sure if this team has one right now... but if I had to completely guess.. Isaiah Hodgins. Before he got injured some people were saying he looked better than Davis in camp, and could be the victim of a numbers game at WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 Wyatt Teller Jr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 Is this thread an underhanded attempt at trolling revenge by the infamous @wrongjosh? 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 (edited) On 5/28/2021 at 12:51 PM, BarleyNY said: Opinions vary on that. Bill Callahan is the Browns OL coach and he’s likely the best in the game at that job. He was the main reason the Browns pursued Teller as he considered him to have been an exceptional OG prospect. In fact he said he thought he was the best OG prospect in the entire 2018 draft. As for the trade, it was a fifth and a sixth in 2020 to the Bills for Teller and a 2021 seventh. For that price the Browns got an All Pro OG. Meanwhile the Bills have had average to below average OG play. While I don’t see the need to keep bringing up the trade, there’s really no way to spin it positively for the Bills. It is what it is. Just move on already. Ok - this is so wrong - I am not sure what exactly you are trying to prove - is this garbage a troll attempt or are you just bad. First - if Teller was considered an exceptional guard talent - he would not have been drafted in the 5th round. The Bills traded him in Aug of 2019 to the Browns - Bill Calahan was in Washington not Cleveland and had absolutely nothing to do with the trade. So your entire first paragraph is just garbage. The Bills thought Teller had talent, but it was singular talent at guard and he was not going to make the squad. Cleveland needed a ton of help on OL and the Bills had a surplus - so the Bills got fair market value for him and they maintained young depth for the PS and veterans. The Browns got Teller in 2019 with Freddie Kitchens run offense and Teller was one of the worst guards in the NFL for Cleveland in 2019. He was so bad there was talk of cutting him going into 2020. What changed in 2020 was the addition of Callahan and the change in offense scheme with Stefanski. Teller was always strong in the running game, but his pass protection was below average. In 2020 with the run first offense Cleveland runs he excelled, but put him in the pass first Buffalo offense - I very much doubt he is the same player. He still struggles in pass protection as a guard. There is no reason to spin it either way - they traded a guard that was not going to make their team and doesn’t fit their style. He struggled in Cleveland until the perfect complement system was installed in 2020. Give Cleveland credit, but to act like anyone in Cleveland knew what they were getting is stupid. The people in Cleveland that made the change were replaced in 2020 when he finally grew into a player - they brought in a new GM and entire coaching staff well after the trade. Therefore your entire premise is wrong and misguided. On 5/28/2021 at 5:00 PM, BarleyNY said: I never said it that the Bills traded away a guard that was already an All Pro. I said that there were varying opinions of how good Teller could be. One of the people with a very high opinion of him got him and helped him turn into that All Pro. It’s obvious in retrospect that Teller’s potential is that of an elite OG, one of the best in the game. It’s too bad that the Bills didn’t see it. It is not too different from the Bills seeing the potential in Jerry Hughes, getting him cheap and reaping the rewards of him blossoming here. Bills fans certainly never had a problem taking credit for that being such a great move. Edited to add: You wrote that he “later turned into an All Pro guard”. You make it sound like it took a long time to develop. One year. That’s what it took. Wrong - one of the guys with a high opinion may have been hired a full year after the trade, but he was still in discussion to be cut going into 2020 - not an All Pro candidate. He also has elite potential in a run heavy scheme, but still struggled more in pass blocking - so he would have been worse again in our scheme than Cleveland’s - it is all about fit. Edited May 30, 2021 by Rochesterfan 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 On 5/27/2021 at 8:25 AM, OnTheRocks said: Who do you see on the current roster that the Bills might give up on that has the potential to become a Pro Bowler? (and I know the Bills didn't necessarily "give up" on Teller, but they gave away a future pro bowler on the cheap). Not sure why u got so many negative reactions for this post. The Bills screwed up big time with that trade. Teller would've greatly improved this pathetic run game here. As far as your question, I have no idea. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 On 5/30/2021 at 11:02 AM, Rochesterfan said: Ok - this is so wrong - I am not sure what exactly you are trying to prove - is this garbage a troll attempt or are you just bad. First - if Teller was considered an exceptional guard talent - he would not have been drafted in the 5th round. The Bills traded him in Aug of 2019 to the Browns - Bill Calahan was in Washington not Cleveland and had absolutely nothing to do with the trade. So your entire first paragraph is just garbage. The Bills thought Teller had talent, but it was singular talent at guard and he was not going to make the squad. Cleveland needed a ton of help on OL and the Bills had a surplus - so the Bills got fair market value for him and they maintained young depth for the PS and veterans. The Browns got Teller in 2019 with Freddie Kitchens run offense and Teller was one of the worst guards in the NFL for Cleveland in 2019. He was so bad there was talk of cutting him going into 2020. What changed in 2020 was the addition of Callahan and the change in offense scheme with Stefanski. Teller was always strong in the running game, but his pass protection was below average. In 2020 with the run first offense Cleveland runs he excelled, but put him in the pass first Buffalo offense - I very much doubt he is the same player. He still struggles in pass protection as a guard. There is no reason to spin it either way - they traded a guard that was not going to make their team and doesn’t fit their style. He struggled in Cleveland until the perfect complement system was installed in 2020. Give Cleveland credit, but to act like anyone in Cleveland knew what they were getting is stupid. The people in Cleveland that made the change were replaced in 2020 when he finally grew into a player - they brought in a new GM and entire coaching staff well after the trade. Therefore your entire premise is wrong and misguided. Wrong - one of the guys with a high opinion may have been hired a full year after the trade, but he was still in discussion to be cut going into 2020 - not an All Pro candidate. He also has elite potential in a run heavy scheme, but still struggled more in pass blocking - so he would have been worse again in our scheme than Cleveland’s - it is all about fit. You sound like a miserable *** person lol calling people's posts "garbage" and saying that they're a troll. It's someone's opinion on a message board, that's what they're for! Some of y'all take this crap wayyy too seriously. It's the off-season. U gonna attack the guy bc his belief doesn't align w/ yours? FYI, U just proceed to make yourself look ignorant. The funny thing is everything you said was opinion-based. You have no clue how Teller would've been developed here unless you invented a time machine that nobody knows about and saw both alternate realities go down. 🤡 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 (edited) 43 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said: You sound like a miserable *** person lol calling people's posts "garbage" and saying that they're a troll. It's someone's opinion on a message board, that's what they're for! Some of y'all take this crap wayyy too seriously. It's the off-season. U gonna attack the guy bc his belief doesn't align w/ yours? FYI, U just proceed to make yourself look ignorant. The funny thing is everything you said was opinion-based. You have no clue how Teller would've been developed here unless you invented a time machine that nobody knows about and saw both alternate realities go down. 🤡 How should we take a post where a person makes something about about a coach that was not even on the team making a trade for a guy. It was flat out wrong there is no two ways about it. He clearly stated that Bill Callahan the Browns OL coach was the main reason the Browns traded for Teller and Callahan and the Browns pursued Teller because he was considered an exceptional OG candidate. Now let’s talk facts - Teller was a fifth round pick for the Bills - he was not thought of by any team as an exceptional OG candidate. The Bills liked him enough to start him some year one on a terrible OL, but realized he was limited to OG play and was the 4th best OG on the team. Fact 2: the entire FO and coaching staff that made the trade was under the Kitchens regime - everyone was phased out - so the entire thing about Callahan was completely made up. Fact 3: Teller went to Cleveland and was on their disappointing 2019 team and he couldn’t even crack the starting lineup until the second half of the season as their #4 guard with a ton of injuries before he saw the field and he was looked at as a potential cut candidate because of his struggles. They were a much more pass forward team and he struggled badly in pass protection - just as we saw in Buffalo. The difference was in 2020 - the Stefanski regime took over with a heavy dose of run game and the scheme change fit his exact strengths. I highly doubt that we see the same success for Teller if he stayed in Buffalo because the scheme fit is not there. So I will ask you - How should we respond to someone on the message board that states not an opinion, but flat out makes things up to fit a made up scenario? Please tell me @ChronicAndKnuckles the message board etiquette for a deceitful post that has been proven to be completely false. If you can go through the post I called out and find truths - great, but when someone on a message board (or anyplace at all) just flat out makes things up - they should get called out and others should know the post is absolutely garbage. I have no issue with people presenting a truthful take on Teller and yes as it works out the Bills missed out on what he is currently, but to even suggest the Browns knew what they were getting and even worse that the OL and interim HC of Washington Football Team had anything to do with the trade is stupid. Edited May 31, 2021 by Rochesterfan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Man Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 On 5/28/2021 at 10:00 PM, BarleyNY said: It’s obvious in retrospect that Teller’s potential is that of an elite OG, one of the best in the game. Its obvious in retrospect that Tom Brady should have been drafted earlier. Value is judged at the time, and they got value. Where were these reports at the time, any reports, that Teller had elite potential? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Mountain Man said: Its obvious in retrospect that Tom Brady should have been drafted earlier. Value is judged at the time, and they got value. Where were these reports at the time, any reports, that Teller had elite potential? I didn’t want to keep this thread going, but I’ll respond for two points: 1) @Rochesterfanis correct that Callahan was not a Browns coach when they traded for him. He did have a very high opinion of him prior to the draft and talked about that when he took the Browns job. My mistake that he wasn’t with the Browns and part of the trade decision. Right after Callahan came on board Teller was slated for starting RG. 2) I never said anyone thought he was going to be an All Pro when the Bills traded him. But no one in the Bills organization saw Teller - a player at a position of need who became an All Pro a season later - as even having solid starter potential? Or that he was more worthy of developing than others on the roster? Others did, and it paid off for them. If Beane had been on the other side of a trade like this, people would be talking about how much smarter he is than other GMs and how he hosed the other team on the trade. This one went the other way and he should take his lumps. That’s all I was saying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 (edited) 1. The Bills scouting staff is to be commended on seeing the potential in Teller when they drafted him in the 5th round in 2018. 2. He was, and is, a run-first guard. 3. He was drafted in the same draft that brought us Josh Allen 4. For obvious reasons, protecting Allen (and giving him some comfort in developing into more of the efficient pocket passer he has become) became paramount. Teller, a developmental player particularly when it came to pass protection, was ill suited to that task after Allen's difficult rookie season playing behind an atrocious offensive line. 5. In retrospect, it would have been nice to have kept him in reserve. But he wouldn't have played much for the Bills in 2019 for the reasons stated above, so who knows if he would have emerged as the very good player he is today if we hadn't traded him to the Browns. 6. None of this matters to the fans here using this topic as a proxy for continuing some boring longstanding dispute about Josh Allen or Josh Rosen or whatever. Edited June 4, 2021 by The Frankish Reich 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaenon Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 James Hardy oh wait... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Man Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 3 hours ago, BarleyNY said: I didn’t want to keep this thread going, Of course you didn't. Given you can't answer the points raised that was more than obvious 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: 1. The Bills scouting staff is to be commended on seeing the potential in Teller when they drafted him in the 5th round in 2018. 2. He was, and is, a run-first guard. 3. He was drafted in the same draft that brought us Josh Allen 4. For obvious reasons, protecting Allen (and giving him some comfort in developing into more of the efficient pocket passer he has become) became paramount. Teller, a developmental player particularly when it came to pass protection, was ill suited to that task after Allen's difficult rookie season playing behind an atrocious offensive line. 5. In retrospect, it would have been nice to have kept him in reserve. But he wouldn't have played much for the Bills in 2019 for the reasons stated above, so who knows if he would have emerged as the very good player he is today if we hadn't traded him to the Browns. 6. None of this matters to the fans here using this topic as a proxy for some continuing some boring longstanding dispute about Josh Allen or Josh Rosen or whatever. Exactly - people think he would have developed exactly the same way in Buffalo, but even after the trade - it took and entire shift from a passing offense to a running offense for him to emerge. I struggle to think what would have happened if they kept him - I really see no way he makes the Bills 2019 - let alone 2020 roster with his limitations in pass blocking. That is ok and part of the game - some guys need the right fit - Hughes needed the defense we played when he arrived and couldn’t do a thing in Indy. Poyer struggled in Cleveland, but matched with Hyde in a zone based defense - he has grown and become an excellent player. It happens across the leagues - guys are drafted and the scheme changes and they are no longer fits and they blossom when getting into a better fit. Edited June 4, 2021 by Rochesterfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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